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  1. #1
    Community Member Khalesh's Avatar
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    Default Do not change heroic tr mechanism

    Period ... There is no need to change the Heroic TR mechanism

    Stop screwing with us

    Do whatever (almost) you want with Epic and Iconic TR But for the love of God do not change the Heroic TR (aka Tokens) system!

    I know there are plenty of other threads out there but EVERY DDO player needs to start a thread on this and ensure NO CHANGES to the Heroic TR system!

  2. #2
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    I agree. Heroic tr and tokens are Eberron. They don't really want to upgrade Eberron any more, so best if they just leave it be, rather than making this change.

  3. #3
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I agree. Heroic tr and tokens are Eberron. They don't really want to upgrade Eberron any more, so best if they just leave it be, rather than making this change.
    I agree too.

  4. #4
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Really the old TR system was far from perfect. People are complaining about sagas limiting them to a few quests to run but the epic tokens did the same thing. I for one am sick of running the same house C challenge over and over every time I want to TR.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Really the old TR system was far from perfect. People are complaining about sagas limiting them to a few quests to run but the epic tokens did the same thing. I for one am sick of running the same house C challenge over and over every time I want to TR.
    You could get Tokens playing ANY quest of high enough level, though. At the very least, monsters dropped fragments instead of collectables.

    Sagas not only force you into the same sequence of quests (and exclude any non-Saga quests), but it forces you to run EVERY quest, even the ones you hate.

    The whole point of Quest Ransack was to give you flexibility in your quest selection, allow you to run more than just the same 3 quests over and over. Now they've gone too far in the opposite direction, FORCING you to run different quests over and over, even if you don't want to.

    Its not just a matter of efficiency, now either...before Quest Ransack, you could run other quests, it just wasn't as fast. You cant run Sagas any other way, though, but doing every quest once. If you hate Crucible, you cant run Cabal for One two extra times instead, for example.

  6. #6
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    You could get Tokens playing ANY quest of high enough level, though. At the very least, monsters dropped fragments instead of collectables.

    Sagas not only force you into the same sequence of quests (and exclude any non-Saga quests), but it forces you to run EVERY quest, even the ones you hate.

    The whole point of Quest Ransack was to give you flexibility in your quest selection, allow you to run more than just the same 3 quests over and over. Now they've gone too far in the opposite direction, FORCING you to run different quests over and over, even if you don't want to.

    Its not just a matter of efficiency, now either...before Quest Ransack, you could run other quests, it just wasn't as fast. You cant run Sagas any other way, though, but doing every quest once. If you hate Crucible, you cant run Cabal for One two extra times instead, for example.
    Wrong. You did not get tokens from any high level quests just a few of the Eberron packs and none of which I really cared for (except von3) The challenges were by far the quickest way to get tokens but it was mind numbingly boring. and it does not force you to run every quest in the saga. You can skip ones you hate if you're vip or spend some shards.

    The new system is far from perfect also and who knows why they removed hearts from the twelve with so few sagas currently live.
    Last edited by Satyriasys; 10-19-2013 at 04:58 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Wrong. You did not get tokens from any high level quests...
    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    At the very least, monsters dropped fragments instead of collectables.
    Unless I'm wrong, that included every quest with monsters >CL25, didn't it?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Wrong. You did not get tokens from any high level quests just a few of the Eberron packs and none of which I really cared for (except von3) The challenges where by far the quickest way to get tokens but it was mind numbingly boring. and it does not force you to run every quest in the saga. You can skip ones you hate if you're vip or spend some shards.

    The new system is far from perfect also and who knows why they removed hearts from the twelve with so few sagas currently live.
    The challenges may be the quickest way to farm tokens for YOU, for me they most certainly are not, plus I really hate them.
    Happily I have tons of alternatives, the easiest being epic snitch (easily half a token per run on EH, and even I can solo that) and the rest of that chain, as well as many, many other epic quests that give the same or better (DQ1+2 which I farm *anyway* for shards gives 1.5 token (DQ1) and regularly a raid token (DQ2) to boot). For all I know you farm 10 tokens in the challenges while I run DQ1+2, but that doesn't change the fact that I AM getting tokens while running quests I actually LIKE. Same for VON: I run Von3 a lot for the good xp, and what do you know, while doing so I also get lots of fragments, and if I don't feel like running von3, well there's the rest of the chain.

    That's the whole point here: I'm perfectly fine with having an EXTRA option to gain heroic hearts by doing sagas, but this whole plan to destroy the current system sucks so hard I still have trouble believing ANYONE ever actually thought this to be a good notion.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

  9. #9
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Unless I'm wrong, that included every quest with monsters >CL25, didn't it?
    Only from the epic Eberron packs (excluding Gianthold)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrm View Post
    The challenges may be the quickest way to farm tokens for YOU, for me they most certainly are not, plus I really hate them.
    Happily I have tons of alternatives, the easiest being epic snitch (easily half a token per run on EH, and even I can solo that) and the rest of that chain, as well as many, many other epic quests that give the same or better (DQ1+2 which I farm *anyway* for shards gives 1.5 token (DQ1) and regularly a raid token (DQ2) to boot). For all I know you farm 10 tokens in the challenges while I run DQ1+2, but that doesn't change the fact that I AM getting tokens while running quests I actually LIKE. Same for VON: I run Von3 a lot for the good xp, and what do you know, while doing so I also get lots of fragments, and if I don't feel like running von3, well there's the rest of the chain.

    That's the whole point here: I'm perfectly fine with having an EXTRA option to gain heroic hearts by doing sagas, but this whole plan to destroy the current system sucks so hard I still have trouble believing ANYONE ever actually thought this to be a good notion.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm
    You're right we did have more freedom which is why it upsets me they are removing the old system with the new one so unfinished. If we have enough sagas to give us the same freedom we had before it would be less of an issue. I guess we will have to see how many sagas we need to run for our hearts.If it's not a bad grind an quests I would do anyway it will be preferable to running old epics and getting a handful of shards in a chest.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I guess we will have to see how many sagas we need to run for our hearts.
    That's already been somewhat answered: 900 favor for a heroic heart. And the guy that ran an EN saga then paid shards to upgrade to EH to see the result was offered... 17 favor.
    17, when you need 900. And 17 not for 1 quest, but for a whole saga chain...

    Now MAYBE those are placeholder numbers. However, given turbine's record of adjusting so-called placeholder numbers before taking something to Life, even after they SAID it would be changed (which they have NOT done here), I wouldn't count on it.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

  11. #11
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrm View Post
    That's already been somewhat answered: 900 favor for a heroic heart. And the guy that ran an EN saga then paid shards to upgrade to EH to see the result was offered... 17 favor.
    17, when you need 900. And 17 not for 1 quest, but for a whole saga chain...

    Now MAYBE those are placeholder numbers. However, given turbine's record of adjusting so-called placeholder numbers before taking something to Life, even after they SAID it would be changed (which they have NOT done here), I wouldn't count on it.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm
    I am well aware of the screenshot of the placeholders that everyone is freaking out about. I for one will wait patiently for an official post. If they went live with those numbers I would quit ddo and play a different game. If they give us a reasonable number I will stay here and continue to spend money.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I am well aware of the screenshot of the placeholders that everyone is freaking out about. I for one will wait patiently for an official post. If they went live with those numbers I would quit ddo and play a different game. If they give us a reasonable number I will stay here and continue to spend money.
    You might be right that they're placeholder values; no way we can know.

    If they are though, that's still really, really bad:

    - It's crazy irresponsible to release numbers this low since the community reaction was a given. Placeholder numbers being implemented unchanged despite serious objections in the past guaranteed this uproar.
    e.g. Collectibles Vendors which took a while to adjust (and still are far from great).

    - It's genuinely important to hash out the details of this new model. Whether every TR life now effectively requires a $10 payment or not turns upon the specific figures of required commendations and number of commendations given for sagas.

    Wasting time with truly nonsense low placeholder values is both inflammatory and a waste of what could be useful feedback time.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I am well aware of the screenshot of the placeholders that everyone is freaking out about. I for one will wait patiently for an official post. If they went live with those numbers I would quit ddo and play a different game. If they give us a reasonable number I will stay here and continue to spend money.
    I agree. Stop screwing with old parts of the game and give more new content. Hire dev's that actually know about DnD; the new weapons are a testament to a wow-arsed mentality.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    People are complaining about sagas limiting them to a few quests to run but the epic tokens did the same thing. I for one am sick of running the same house C challenge over and over every time I want to TR.
    Never did understand the problem with getting Epic Tokens. I keep seeing people talking about "farming" them. I never farmed them; bought my 17 True Hearts of Wood with tokens; bought dozens of augments (most of them the much-more-expensive old-style Epic augments) with them; and still have hundreds of Epic tokens left over. Without ever farming them. By just PLAYING THE GAME.

    Like any other mindless farm, be it Rusted Blades or Shadow Crypt, I just don't get it. You get the same result with much more fun by actually playing the huge diversity of the game, instead of repeating one little boring thing over and over. If you don't like the game, why do you even want XP or PLs or whatever?

  15. #15
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Wrong. You did not get tokens from any high level quests just a few of the Eberron packs and none of which I really cared for (except von3) The challenges were by far the quickest way to get tokens but it was mind numbingly boring. and it does not force you to run every quest in the saga. You can skip ones you hate if you're vip or spend some shards.
    So you're forced to run every quest, is what you're saying - unless you don't mind throwing money at the problem. Which a lot of us mind a lot.
    .: Sarlona - High Lords of Malkier :.
    .: Inamorata (Heroic Completionist) / Signalmixer (TR3) (Vorpal Queen) / Darkchylde-1 / Darqchylde / Rashree (TR) / Arising :.
    .: Groundloop (TR4) / Lainiel (TR2) / Zephale (Vorpal Princess) / Aurachylde / Torrynn :.

  16. #16
    Community Member Khalesh's Avatar
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    As a compromise I personally would accept an additional way of obtaining True Hearts by implementing this saga commendation reward system but do not for the love of god remove the existing Token mechanism

    If folks want to continue farming challenges and Ebbberron quests for Tokens let them do so

    If you want to add an alternative route of Saga end rewards for Hearts .. then great!!

    But to ONLY make it where its either Sagas or Cash for Hearts would once again be just a shameless money grab ,,,, and yes I do pay a monthly sub, I did and will pay for all expansions, I do use the store from time to time and spend more money but I will not support a game which forces endless Saga runs on me or take more cash by making have to buy Hearts!

  17. #17
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Simple as this for me. If the change goes live I stop all my project characters. The cost to TR will become too much for me to bother. Then, I stop spending money on DDO. No more purchases of expansions or adventure packs. No more buying Turbine Points every year, either solo or as part of pre-purchase offerings. My wallet closes to Turbine's cash flow.

    When it hits the bottom line is when companies pay attention.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Thumbed_Servant's Avatar
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    Default I vote NAY to removing Heroic True Heart of Wood purchase via Tokens of the Twelve

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I agree. Heroic tr and tokens are Eberron." "...so best if they just leave it be, rather than making this change.
    I agree too
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Wrong. You did not get tokens from any high level quests just a few of the Eberron packs and none of which I really cared for (except von3) The challenges were by far the quickest way to get tokens but it was mind numbingly boring. and it does not force you to run every quest in the saga. You can skip ones you hate if you're vip or spend some shards.

    The new system is far from perfect also and who knows why they removed hearts from the twelve with so few sagas currently live.
    Well, the Epic Tokens dropped in all Epic quests (except for the supposed bugged Black Loch and Spies in the House) until MOTU came out. It wasn't the players that made the decision to stop dropping Epic Tokens in future content, that's all on the Devs, thus the name change but we all know they are Epic Tokens. It wasn't the players fault that the amount of Epic Tokens and Fragments that dropped were cut sharply per run, that was all on the Devs.

    Because the Devs were the ones that limited how players could get Epic Tokens and also cut the amount that dropped per run, your solution is that players need to pay more by buying the Hearts, going VIP or paying in Astral Shards (which also conveniently no longer has a free option of initially obtaining anymore). Yea, it's all the players fault for continuing the play the game the way it has been set up in the past and investing money in the game through the hundreds of other streams that Turbine has set up for players besides the DDOStore purchase of TR Hearts or horrible packs/"expansion".

  20. #20
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Well, the Epic Tokens dropped in all Epic quests (except for the supposed bugged Black Loch and Spies in the House) until MOTU came out. It wasn't the players that made the decision to stop dropping Epic Tokens in future content, that's all on the Devs, thus the name change but we all know they are Epic Tokens. It wasn't the players fault that the amount of Epic Tokens and Fragments that dropped were cut sharply per run, that was all on the Devs.

    Because the Devs were the ones that limited how players could get Epic Tokens and also cut the amount that dropped per run, your solution is that players need to pay more by buying the Hearts, going VIP or paying in Astral Shards (which also conveniently no longer has a free option of initially obtaining anymore). Yea, it's all the players fault for continuing the play the game the way it has been set up in the past and investing money in the game through the hundreds of other streams that Turbine has set up for players besides the DDOStore purchase of TR Hearts or horrible packs/"expansion".
    My solution is to give players a free heart when they hit level 20
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