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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations
    17 Commendations per Ehard Saga

    Cmon do you really think they would go live with this? If they did nobody would ever TR.
    Everyone needs a little patience these numbers have been posted one day and the TR system is not even on Lammania yet.
    Holy f-balls Batman! Please say it isn't so. Turbine, why the he ll would you even think of something like this? Is it just to get us worked up so that when you concede to something better (but still worse than what we currently have) that we'll actually feel okay about it?

    Either you're off your f-ing rocker or playing Jedi mind games with us. Either is not appreciated.
    -Taters
    Argonnessen: Catteras, Lukie, Totalle, Paularubia, Momentte, Complette, Malaena, Lethale, Tottalle
    Some clever quote is supposed to go here, right?

  2. #102
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trerro View Post
    MMOs are social games. They do not function without the dedicated, active players that form the core of guilds, take the time to set up the parties, run the fansites, etc. Drive these players away, and everyone stares at an empty party list, empty guild chat, and total lack of community, gets bored, and quits. It doesn't matter if you're willing to pay cash in if the game stops being fun, and driving out the free players does precisely that.
    MMOs in general are social games, but that wasn't the point. The point is someone who puts little more than the money required to become Premium is not funding development of this game. If anything they are draining Turbine's finances by using up server resources. I don't know about anyone else but I certainly do not complain if something is being given to me for free.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-20-2013 at 03:59 PM.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    MMOs in general are social games, but that wasn't the point. The point is someone who puts little more than the money required to become Premium is not funding development of this game. If anything they are draining Turbine's finances by using up server resources.
    This is looking at it wrong. The presence of the "leeches" (my word) contributes to the viability of the game itself. The more people you see running around the more likely it is that new players will stick around, and a percentage of those will pay money. Leeches provide a very real value, far in excess of their cost in server load, in the form of player retention.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    This is looking at it wrong. The presence of the "leeches" (my word) contributes to the viability of the game itself. The more people you see running around the more likely it is that new players will stick around, and a percentage of those will pay money. Leeches provide a very real value, far in excess of their cost in server load, in the form of player retention.
    I have to agree with this (I've said as much myself in the past).

    Don't believe us?

    When you first started playing, if you'd chosen Wayfinder as your Server and never checked the other Servers, would you still be playing now?

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    I have to agree with this (I've said as much myself in the past).

    Don't believe us?

    When you first started playing, if you'd chosen Wayfinder as your Server and never checked the other Servers, would you still be playing now?
    Yes

    Sad to say we did this when we picked a dying Euro server to start playing on. But it was the tight community and RL friends that made us stick around.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOnly_LightInDark View Post
    Yes

    Sad to say we did this when we picked a dying Euro server to start playing on. But it was the tight community and RL friends that made us stick around.
    I can certainly understand where you're coming from, but try placing yourself in the shoes of a new player who arrives on their own (Without the friends that you were fortunate enough to have, I'm happy for you btw), who's first experience of DDO is the ghost town called Wayfinder.

    For myself, I'd have simply uninstalled and tried something else. I honestly couldn't tell you which Server I tried first, I know it wasn't Wayfinder and I know that I ended up picking Thelanis after running through a bunch of PuG's and having a pleasant experience on that Server (Probably pure coincidence really, there are nice players on every Server, of that I have no doubts whatsoever. Had I had a similar experience on a different Server, I likely would have made my home there.)

    You know, as much as I love Bravery Bonus on my TR's, when I think back to when I first started (2010 ish), I can't help but remember that back then I saw PuG's up for Normal, Hard and Elite. These days I see only Elite, and Bravery Bonus is one of the major contributing factors for that(There's also Favour ofc, but Favour was a factor when I started and people still ran all three dificulties).

    I can't help but think that Elite being the standard these days has to be off-putting to quite a few new players. Those of us who've been around for a while, played every quest so many times that we can recite the DM's comments etc might be fine running Elite (Though personally I do find it irritating that Turbine apparently equates challenge with increased CR mobs, rather than better AI, Tactics, mob placement, mob group composition etc.) but for newer players who can often only find groups on Elite? Ouch.
    Last edited by Archangel_666; 10-20-2013 at 07:10 PM.

  7. #107
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    When you first started playing, if you'd chosen Wayfinder as your Server and never checked the other Servers, would you still be playing now?
    Yes. When it comes to server population I much prefer quality over quantity. A lot of free players does not equate to a good player base.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-20-2013 at 09:04 PM. Reason: typos
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  8. #108
    Community Member Trillea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    I usually do a yearly sub of my VIP. It's coming up in about a week.

    This is not good timing for me to think about this.
    You are lucky. I paid mine 2 days before the announcement...
    Quote Originally Posted by Philam View Post
    I nominate you as head developer of DDO!
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    That tears it. I need to get a donkey.
    Concentrated power is the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    You are lucky. I paid mine 2 days before the announcement...
    You could always cancel it. Call customer support and ask for a refund. If they refuse there always calling up your credit card company.

    This current dev team seems to want to consistently mess with the mechanics and inner workings of the game and the only way to get the point across is to stop the cash flow.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    No offense or nothing, but offering conversion is dumb. If you insist on offering a conversion of currency, maybe you should just stick with the one currency in the first place.

    But people have hoards of Epic Dungeon Tokens of the Twelve! And some people duped them! Fine, jack the price up FOR A TIME and bleed out the excess currency from the economy.

    You had gold, and that became hyper inflated so you switch the denomination to plat, which is hyper inflated, so there's Dungeon Tokens that never had enough uses to not become hyper inflated, And Shards, and Signets, and Commendations... enough!!!

    The players have been complaining about 2 things for years: Not enough storage space, and too many damn collectibles.

    Turbine slowed down on making new collectibles for the most part, but now introduce a new currency each update. It's pathetic, and a band-aid to the root problem. This game does not have a viable way to bleed currency out of the economy. We all hated renown decay, and there was really no point for it. But bank fees (maintaining your account, in plat), reinstating higher repair bills for deaths, "Early Adopter Taxes" on new upgradables (You wanna be the first kid on the block with Flawless Purple Dragonscale! That'll be 40 tokens per upgrade. This cost will drop at Patch 1, and again at Patch 2...)

    Just introducing a new currency that we'll hoard because we don't have enough means to get rid of it until Turbine introduces a new currency is a merry-go-round. And the worst part, is that WE HAVE TO STORE THIS NEW CURRENCY exacerbating our other complaint.
    Its ALL about intent here. The token system isnt flawed....no not at all. The intent isnt to convert to a new system because the old one is not working...no. Its obvious isnt it? people tr so much in this game, its the lifeblood of the long term player. well the investors said wait...how many people are actually tring in this game...?? ***?!?!?! WHOA!! wait a minute....we got thousands constantly tring...and all the gotta do to get a heart is...run eda with a few friends for about 2 hours...??? or cannith challenges for a few hours...?? THATS IT?!?!?! heck no...no more free lunches here....not in this p2p..ahem f2p (snicker) game. then want it free?? fine, make them run 400 quests and regret it...make them wish they just broke down, gave in and bought one from the store. THATS how we will cash in baby!! CHA-CHING!!!


    Because intent behind this isnt anything about getting us to run sagas more. heck the great xp and skill tomes cover that fine....no. they made it so we would be annoyed at the grind and give them 15 bucks a heart. this is all about the cash register. they saw it could rake in a **** ton of money and they want it up and running like this. there is NO OTHER REASON to do it this way. I DARE SOME DEV TO COUNTER ME!! they cant/wont. they answer to these idiots as well. the investors or whoever is making the marketing choices are the ones behind this. conversion systems and new currencies and all that is just the foreground...the background is all about the fricken bucks.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Yes. When it comes to server population I much prefer quality over quantity. A lot of free players does not equate to a good player base.
    That's based on the common, yet flawed, assumption that people that spend $10 per month are somehow significantly more mature individuals than people that spend nothing. While I understand that most little kids have no money and may well be unable to get their parents to pay (and are thus free players) there are countless people with jobs (or money from college loans) that are immature and generally unpleasant to be around. Free players provide additional people for everyone to play with. I see a lot of people complain about how dead the game is. If all the people that are no longer contributing money simply disappeared (this means free players are well as premium people that no longer pay for anything and have no intention of ever paying for anything again) the game would be far more empty than it already is. And while I agree that quality is better than quantity, making all the free players disappear would lower the quantity with no guarantee that the quality would improve. If you have ever played WoW then you know that just because people pay money every month doesn't mean they are mature and pleasant to be around.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Yes I am certain of it. Nobody would ever TR and they would bleed customers overnight. Their mistake was posting the prices of hearts this early in development without giving us any indication of the saga rewards.
    Then someone does a saga on Lammania and posts the placeholder numbers which throws the community into a riot. and people wonder why Turbine is so quiet about giving us information, because this is what happens when we only see half of a system.
    The new TR mechanic is not even open for testing yet on Lammania. Removing the hearts from the twelve is the real mistake but it's no surprise really. They have been phasing tokens out for a long time now.
    Honestly once they get the numbers tuned to a more realistic balance and add some more sagas I think this new system is going to be fine. I will get commendations for doing quests I would have done anyway. Turbine does listen to us and has gone back to the drawing board when we call them out on poor decisions.
    LOL....what can i say...? this guy dont know what hes talking about. when it hits lam....it gets 1 more review to the build...and thats usually bug fixes. those numbers for coms were already hard wired on the alpha test server before it hit lam im sure. they sure as heck arent changing the algorithm now. but hey....let him think what he wants...when he runs a saga and sees hes wrong...wont it be amusing to see his face? LOL

  13. #113
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    MMOs in general are social games, but that wasn't the point. The point is someone who puts little more than the money required to become Premium is not funding development of this game. If anything they are draining Turbine's finances by using up server resources. I don't know about anyone else but I certainly do not complain if something is being given to me for free.
    TBH, if you're so concerned about the "leeches" using up server resources, then you should be up in arms proposing server merges, especially for Wayfinder.

    Additionally, Premiums often pay more than VIPs do.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  14. #114
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Would post mine but I cancelled u19.
    Canceled mine and my partners sub when i saw how turbine dev's responded to the loot debacle of U19.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Exactly. It's the weekend... We'll get 1000 threads full of nerd-rage until Monday, and then Turbine will change the numbers. These people are going to give themselves heart-attacks with all the bile they are spitting.
    No forum actions, no change, empty-ish servers
    Between no action and nerd rage on the forum, i know wich one to pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    They do this EVERY update.

    People will praise them when they lower it to 10 sagas, 100ish quests, versus the 20 we need to run now.

    That to will kill TRing which will kill DDO.
    so true

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Where did you get the idea that I approve of the change?

    The change is stupid and ridiculous, BUT it's not on the live servers yet, and the reactions are over the top.

    Many good points have been made why it's a bad idea. The math speaks for itself. One of the reasons they let us preview changes on Lammania is for feedback. The devs will change it.

    I'm just amazed at the pathetic TONE of the addicts on these boards.
    Howlong have you been here?
    How long have you seen people complain here?
    Howlong have you seen turbine screw things up on lam?
    How many times have you realy seen them fix it compaired to a lazy blanket fix? (a.k.a. nerf)
    How many times have you realy seen them fix it compaired to a lousy percentidge of the problem?

    All we can do is hope that turbine wakes up before they cut the life support they are on now.
    I don't expect them to change it (i blame misplaced pride and greed), i kinde expect them to remove true hearts and replace them with something that does the same, so that all the hearts we're buying now are invalid at U20

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Reality: Turbine ONLY responds to torches and pitchforks.

    They will only change things if we convince them this will affect the bottom line.
    yes, and here's my torch (the Nurses keep removing sharp objects).

    Stop messing about with the system like this turbine!

  15. #115
    Community Member sdrocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations
    17 Commendations per Ehard Saga

    Cmon do you really think they would go live with this? If they did nobody would ever TR.
    Everyone needs a little patience these numbers have been posted one day and the TR system is not even on Lammania yet.
    yup. done it before. usually whats on lamania ends up on live unless we as a player base make a lot of noise.

    The enhancement system would of been totally borked if not for us whining players.

    The final draft of epic TR would of cost you all your ED grinding if we as a player base did not, again, have a sook.

    We do this because we love the game. No other reason.

    We do this because we want to keep playing and not feel like we have had our a$$ violated as we play.

  16. #116
    Community Member sdrocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    TBH, if you're so concerned about the "leeches" using up server resources, then you should be up in arms proposing server merges, especially for Wayfinder.

    Additionally, Premiums often pay more than VIPs do.
    Leave Wayfinder alone. Simple. We don't want a merge.

  17. #117
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    . . . maybe, just maybe your new idea is bad.

    Seriously, 170 sagas to earn the hearts needed for TR . . .
    ... When Teh_Troll posts a thread that isn't garbage...

    maybe, just maybe your new idea is bad.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  18. #118
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The fix is simple, if inelegant:

    Add the following conversions to the 12 altar:
    - 20 fragments of the twelve for 10 commendations of valor
    - 1 token of the twelve for 50 commendations of valor

    Done and done. If you then convert your 20 tokens of the twelve you end up with 1000 commendations of valor, meaning heroic TR remains largely unchanged for everyone and every playstyle. Epic TR then costs double this. Fine by me.

    Once this is implemented, the insanity of 17 comms of valor for an EH saga reward becomes clear, so multiply saga comm rewards by 10 and maybe that would do it. 170 comms for a saga reward means around how many per quest on average? 17? 20? Whatever the average works out to, mentally double that number to see what the equivalent reward is in token fragments. This sounds about right to me.

    Make it so and there will be peace and joy in the land.

    It is absolutely critical that tokens can be converted to comms of valor. (A separate conversion for fragments would be nice but not required.) Anything short of this is a real threat to the game's viability.
    I like the idea above.
    Also with recent changes which I can't see myself playing at the same rate in the future (and I already consider myself a casual player) and so I cancelled my VIP too.
    If turbine doesn't learn that the value of the customer is important then I will stop financially supporting them.

  19. #119
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    Howlong have you been here?
    How long have you seen people complain here?
    Howlong have you seen turbine screw things up on lam?
    How many times have you realy seen them fix it compaired to a lazy blanket fix? (a.k.a. nerf)
    How many times have you realy seen them fix it compaired to a lousy percentidge of the problem?
    I've been here a very long time, and I've seen the players complain about every single change to the game. I've seen Turbine respond to feedback a hundred times, and I've seen players completely forget that the next time a change is imminent. Look at the enhancement overhaul... Constant complaining, doom posts everywhere, Turbine changed a TON of stuff on Lamannia based on our feedback, and the system is pretty decent now. But a few months later, everyone is like, "Turbine never listens to feedback ever! Whatever is on Lamannia always goes live!" And that's just not true.

    This change is not reasonable in any shape or form. They have ALWAYS changed the really stupid ideas, and I expect them to change this one as well.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 10-21-2013 at 07:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I've been here a very long time, and I've seen the players complain about every single change to the game. I've seen Turbine respond to feedback a hundred times, and I've seen players completely forget that the next time a change is imminent. Look at the enhancement overhaul... Constant complaining, doom posts everywhere, Turbine changed a TON of stuff on Lamannia based on our feedback, and the system is pretty decent now. But a few months later, everyone is like, "Turbine never listens to feedback ever! Whatever is on Lamannia always goes live!" And that's just not true.

    This change is not reasonable in any shape or form. They have ALWAYS changed the really stupid ideas, and I expect them to change this one as well.
    They actually changed very little about the enhancement pass from the initial alpha preview to live. Here is a list of what the major complaints were about the very first alpha preview:

    - Rangers had no devotion
    - The points in tree mechanic
    - Only allowing 3 trees
    - No spellpower from racial trees

    The only thing they changed was allowing 6 trees instead of 3 (which was a great change) and lowering the AP gating costs on tier 5 class trees and tier 3 & 4 race trees. Everything else went live untouched compared to alpha.

    They have proposed ideas (hard to kill, destiny xp reset on TR, etc...) that got scrapped completely before ever making it to lama. Once something makes it to lama, though, almost nothing ever changes before it goes live. Including serious exploits that get reported.

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