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  1. #1
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default Turbine, here's how you can get my money:

    Make me want to give it to you. You used to be good at that, all the way up to about MotU. When MotU was released with "(x) quest is broken & uncompletable" I felt disappointed and ripped off, plain & simple. Since then, you're obviously disappointed that I simply haven't purchased any new content. Every time a new pack was released I had the following Q&A with guildies:

    •How's the quests? Are the stories good and the dungeon design cool?
    •What's the xp like? Anything worth running just for a fat number?
    •How about the loot? Any new must haves?

    The answers Essentially went along these lines:
    Each pack has about one good, fun quest but the rest just feel like filler. The xp has consistently been between ok and laughable. As for the loot, nothing that was "must have," and the few cool things could be easily obtained without running the quests; plus in hind sight I would've been ****ed off anyway if I had bought them just for the loot, when the random gen system came out and marginalized most of the named items anyway.

    So now, you've decided to tie TRing in any form to running the (often broken!) Sagas. I have Gianthold, and I have MotU. That gives me 2 I can run, as the rest are all comprised of, or contingent on, the post MotU packs in one combination or another. So if I don't buy those packs that I've never had an interest in, my only options are buy hearts from the store (no) or stick to GH and flagging for a raid I have no interest in running (seriously, I've never heard anything from anyone that makes me want to run CitW); and this is how you intend to motivate me to take part in the end game you call TRing?

    I (and many others) have offered countless suggestions of things you could do to make me want to give you money, yet I've seen none of it come to fruition. Instead, you keep trying to pry it out of me in ways more obnoxious than my 15 year old daughter. Even she managaed to figure out it works better to ask nicely than to nag. Your path to monetizing the game seems to be based on sticking slivers in my skin, then selling me tweezers in some cases, in others you're like the bully standing there with one hand held out saying "gimmy your lunch money!" while the other hand is balled up in a fist ready to punch me if I don't.

    Please stop encouraging me to go looking for somewhere else to spend my entertainment dollars. So far you've kept me around with that lovely D&D logo, but as you slide more and more away from "D&D based" to "D&Dish" and seem to be well on the way to "D&D in name only" while constantly saying "gimmy-gimmy-gimmy!" instead of "hey dad, I just washed the car for you (when I didn't even ask!) so can I please have some money to go to the movies?" Care to guess which approach gets me to open the wallet?


    TL;DR:
    •Trying to make me spend money to avoid you irritating me will not work!
    •Asking nicely while doing a good job of earning my money will work!
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  2. #2
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Make me want to give it to you. You used to be good at that, all the way up to about MotU. When MotU was released with "(x) quest is broken & uncompletable" I felt disappointed and ripped off, plain & simple. Since then, you're obviously disappointed that I simply haven't purchased any new content. Every time a new pack was released I had the following Q&A with guildies:

    •How's the quests? Are the stories good and the dungeon design cool?
    •What's the xp like? Anything worth running just for a fat number?
    •How about the loot? Any new must haves?

    The answers Essentially went along these lines:
    Each pack has about one good, fun quest but the rest just feel like filler. The xp has consistently been between ok and laughable. As for the loot, nothing that was "must have," and the few cool things could be easily obtained without running the quests; plus in hind sight I would've been ****ed off anyway if I had bought them just for the loot, when the random gen system came out and marginalized most of the named items anyway.

    So now, you've decided to tie TRing in any form to running the (often broken!) Sagas. I have Gianthold, and I have MotU. That gives me 2 I can run, as the rest are all comprised of, or contingent on, the post MotU packs in one combination or another. So if I don't buy those packs that I've never had an interest in, my only options are buy hearts from the store (no) or stick to GH and flagging for a raid I have no interest in running (seriously, I've never heard anything from anyone that makes me want to run CitW); and this is how you intend to motivate me to take part in the end game you call TRing?

    I (and many others) have offered countless suggestions of things you could do to make me want to give you money, yet I've seen none of it come to fruition. Instead, you keep trying to pry it out of me in ways more obnoxious than my 15 year old daughter. Even she managaed to figure out it works better to ask nicely than to nag. Your path to monetizing the game seems to be based on sticking slivers in my skin, then selling me tweezers in some cases, in others you're like the bully standing there with one hand held out saying "gimmy your lunch money!" while the other hand is balled up in a fist ready to punch me if I don't.

    Please stop encouraging me to go looking for somewhere else to spend my entertainment dollars. So far you've kept me around with that lovely D&D logo, but as you slide more and more away from "D&D based" to "D&Dish" and seem to be well on the way to "D&D in name only" while constantly saying "gimmy-gimmy-gimmy!" instead of "hey dad, I just washed the car for you (when I didn't even ask!) so can I please have some money to go to the movies?" Care to guess which approach gets me to open the wallet?


    TL;DR:
    •Trying to make me spend money to avoid you irritating me will not work!
    •Asking nicely while doing a good job of earning my money will work!
    +1 to that! Seriously Turbine, this latest news is just breaking my heart.

  3. #3
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    +1 to that! Seriously Turbine, this latest news is just breaking my heart.
    Don't let it do that....you'll have to run Gianthold 170 times to get a new one......
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

    Leader of The Dark Creed

  4. #4
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    These changes are just... stupid.
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.

    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.

  5. #5
    Community Member DirtySheepdip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Don't let it do that....you'll have to run Gianthold 170 times to get a new one......
    lmao
    Inagaki
    Argo
    CoP

  6. #6
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Very true op. It's insulting to see the tactics these companies resort to. And the sad thing is they don't need to. I used to be happy to buy points because I knew I would be getting my moneys worth and it was MY choice, but when they insult the intelligence of their customers with tacky scams and tricks it just pushes me away from being a supportive fan to a disgruntled customer.
    They expect me to pull out my wallet every time an astral shard window pops up but it has the opposite effect. As if they could fool me with their carnival chicanery. I wasn't born yesterday and know a swindler when I see one. These tactics might work on senile folks but not on D&D nerds who can see all the angles.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  7. #7
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    +1 to OP

    I exactly feel the same.

    I am seriously considering canceling my subscription by now... I still have not but I will if the TR thing goes live.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I (and many others) have offered countless suggestions of things you could do to make me want to give you money, yet I've seen none of it come to fruition. Instead, you keep trying to pry it out of me in ways more obnoxious than my 15 year old daughter. Even she managaed to figure out it works better to ask nicely than to nag. Your path to monetizing the game seems to be based on sticking slivers in my skin, then selling me tweezers in some cases, in others you're like the bully standing there with one hand held out saying "gimmy your lunch money!" while the other hand is balled up in a fist ready to punch me if I don't.
    I don't know how to +1 with the new forum, so please accept this QFT instead.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ovrad's Avatar
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    +1 well said.

    They really need a more "pay for this fun thing" approach, instead of the recent "pay to remove the roadblock we just placed in your way". It gets worst every update.

  10. #10
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    I paid for the house C pack because it was fun, had good items, interesting quests and a couple of raids, and because I was curious about the artificer.

    I paid for MoTU because the EDs seemed cool and a lot of people enjoyed them, everyone were buzzing about the quests and wilderness areas, and the druid seemed an interesting class.

    with shadowfell I just waited until it hit the store and got with favor farmed TPs, because the iconics just weren't that interesting (I enjoy playing levels 5-15), and for someone who usually TRs at 20, more epic content had little appeal to me.
    had they released more heroic content, I'd be first in line to get it.

    Update 20 introduces little new content, eldritch knight which IMO still needs a whole lot of work, renders my hard earned tokens of the twelve useless, and takes away from the way I play the game by essentially making TRing a solely p2p option.
    This is one update I am not looking forward to.

    hopefully this post serves to demonstrate that paying for content isn't something f2p players are opposed to, as long as you provide good value for money.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    +1 to that! Seriously Turbine, this latest news is just breaking my heart
    ... of wood.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Make me want to give it to you. You used to be good at that, all the way up to about MotU. When MotU was released with "(x) quest is broken & uncompletable" I felt disappointed and ripped off, plain & simple. Since then, you're obviously disappointed that I simply haven't purchased any new content. Every time a new pack was released I had the following Q&A with guildies:

    •How's the quests? Are the stories good and the dungeon design cool?
    •What's the xp like? Anything worth running just for a fat number?
    •How about the loot? Any new must haves?

    The answers Essentially went along these lines:
    Each pack has about one good, fun quest but the rest just feel like filler. The xp has consistently been between ok and laughable. As for the loot, nothing that was "must have," and the few cool things could be easily obtained without running the quests; plus in hind sight I would've been ****ed off anyway if I had bought them just for the loot, when the random gen system came out and marginalized most of the named items anyway.

    So now, you've decided to tie TRing in any form to running the (often broken!) Sagas. I have Gianthold, and I have MotU. That gives me 2 I can run, as the rest are all comprised of, or contingent on, the post MotU packs in one combination or another. So if I don't buy those packs that I've never had an interest in, my only options are buy hearts from the store (no) or stick to GH and flagging for a raid I have no interest in running (seriously, I've never heard anything from anyone that makes me want to run CitW); and this is how you intend to motivate me to take part in the end game you call TRing?

    I (and many others) have offered countless suggestions of things you could do to make me want to give you money, yet I've seen none of it come to fruition. Instead, you keep trying to pry it out of me in ways more obnoxious than my 15 year old daughter. Even she managaed to figure out it works better to ask nicely than to nag. Your path to monetizing the game seems to be based on sticking slivers in my skin, then selling me tweezers in some cases, in others you're like the bully standing there with one hand held out saying "gimmy your lunch money!" while the other hand is balled up in a fist ready to punch me if I don't.

    Please stop encouraging me to go looking for somewhere else to spend my entertainment dollars. So far you've kept me around with that lovely D&D logo, but as you slide more and more away from "D&D based" to "D&Dish" and seem to be well on the way to "D&D in name only" while constantly saying "gimmy-gimmy-gimmy!" instead of "hey dad, I just washed the car for you (when I didn't even ask!) so can I please have some money to go to the movies?" Care to guess which approach gets me to open the wallet?


    TL;DR:
    •Trying to make me spend money to avoid you irritating me will not work!
    •Asking nicely while doing a good job of earning my money will work!
    +1 reminds me of my past with mt2.us korean grinder mmo, same kind of business model....

  13. #13
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Im grinning at all those who disagreed with me in the past when I stated that unwavering support for the store becoming the profit generating device would result in the future game being designed around it. Here we are in that future, and they continue to do just that. OP, most if not all of the "convenience" purchases that can be made are based on circumventing irritation. It was widely supported in the past, so expect it to keep happening in the future.

    I also note that a common argument by those who disagree was that "it could be had in game" - and now, they are taking a lot of those things that can be had in game and making it harder to obtain in game. Lots and lots of token farming groups up this weekend. Not hard to figure out why. The free easy buttons are drying up one by one, being replaced with paid easy buttons.
    Last edited by Chai; 10-19-2013 at 10:16 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #14
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Im grinning at all those who disagreed with me in the past when I stated that unwavering support for the store becoming the profit generating device would result in the future game being designed around it. Here we are in that future, and they continue to do just that. OP, most if not all of the "convenience" purchases that can be made are based on circumventing irritation. It was widely supported in the past, so expect it to keep happening in the future.
    Maybe I'm misreading your post, but.. I agree with you..

    That's enough internet for tonight.

  15. #15
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    now where are the ones who don't want the fate point grind to improve and keep the system the way it is saying its "fun and challenging" and "you have to work for it" to play off destinies, when you will have to run epic sagas on your TR 50something times just to get a heart of wood? they should be in here talking about how we should be putting the effort into getting those hearts of wood.

    where are the ones that said DDO is not a P2W game because we have in game options and don't need to buy anything from the store? hello! you really want to grind out sagas dozens and dozens of times just to TR? this is another easy to pay for convenience with another sucky in game free option.

    also, did I mention they are BTC? running epic sagas on your TR multiple multiple times when you probably don't have the gear beyond 20 and probably not good at playing certain classes.
    Last edited by Qhualor; 10-19-2013 at 10:46 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    So now, you've decided to tie <ORIGINAL TEXT REMOVED> in any form to running the (often broken!) Sagas.
    Careful about what you mention, or the forum police will remove your thread from General Discussion. Discussing things that are on Lama anywhere except the Lama forums isn't allowed, it seems.

  17. #17
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    •Trying to make me spend money to avoid you irritating me will not work!
    •Asking nicely while doing a good job of earning my money will work!
    There are numerous studies on internet and offline sales that would disagree. Nickel and diming works better as the vast majority of the population is programmed not to think about many small purchases the same way as large purchases. Most people are very, very bad at math which is why more people play the lottery than save money in a high yield bank account. (If those things still existed )

    So while I agree with your sentiment, I also understand why they do what they do. It works, and the only thing that will change that is education and behaviour modification... which ain't happening.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    $15/life is hardly "nickle and dime" for most people though.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

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