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  1. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    I don't disagree with that. The problem some people have suggested though is that there are people have cheated to amass massive quantities of Tokens of the Twelve.
    And since this news broke, they have doubtless spread their tokens around multiple toons and cashed in for true hearts already. This proposal doesn't inconvenience the dupers in the slightest, it just punishes everyone who didn't.
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  2. #582
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    And since this news broke, they have doubtless spread their tokens around multiple toons and cashed in for true hearts already. This proposal doesn't inconvenience the dupers in the slightest, it just punishes everyone who didn't.
    Funny how that works.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  3. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    And since this news broke, they have doubtless spread their tokens around multiple toons and cashed in for true hearts already. This proposal doesn't inconvenience the dupers in the slightest, it just punishes everyone who didn't.
    I don't disagree with you. Just pointing out that if Turbine is dead-set on removing Tokens of the Twelve they still have an option that would make their player-base happy - make heroic TR'ing free for all characters 20+.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  4. #584
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    I dont think duping is an issue for tokens, they're bound. The exploiters had their duped items destroyed. The issue that remains are the non bound items they were able to sell on the AH or give away.
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  5. #585
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    Yes, I understand Sagas. Once you learn how to NOT bug your necropolis or Delera progress, every other progression line is cake.
    Since I am negative about the projected changes as well, I will describe the consequences these changes will have for me.:

    player profile: I play the game since free-to-play and spend some money on it to get content, I'm not a whale*. I have a 3rd life main character and a metric ton of alts on almost all servers, I know two raids or so, and often answer /advice questions when I see them. I play with a friend who spent an equal amount, is focussed only on one character.
    We like to play all quests in the quest list in (not too strict) order up until level 20 and then we collect tokens and fragments for hearts.

    When we heard about epic reincarnations we were curious and perhaps this we life would go and see what CITW was about. The idea alone made the new epic content more interesting.

    We wanted to farm some house D epics and some other old-style epics as well, in the meanwhile we would get some twelve fragments, xp, levels, and epic ingredients.
    In that way we avoid some of the challenge grind (and be 21 if we need to anyway), we don't mind challenges but I like doing quests better. Not all quests, quests we like. This is choice, choice is nice.

    In the current plan this would be grossly invalidated. I am not a farmer. Getting fragments, xp that were directly useful to use while searching for 'The One Doodad' makes it fun for me.
    All old epics would be invalidated in the current plan. I like to play those, even for the fragments alone, epic ingredients and xp are gravy. But gravy alone is not a meal.

    So, we would get keyed for CITW, we didn't do that before. If we were going to be level 28 anyway, we might as well farm all those weapons we wanted to have. Because of the idea of epic reincarnation, it made us look at the epic shinies we didn't bother to look at before.
    Whatever jig you have to dance to epic reincarnate, we would see later. I expected a grind some way or another (but not the mess planned with 'heroic incarnation'!).

    So epic reincarnation alone was enough to validate the new content.
    But my friend said he'd never play DDO if this would go live because it would make our future game experience and past effort null and void.
    So far I played DDO no matter the changes.
    If these changes to live, no matter the saga ratio, even I (a quietly self-professed DDO addict) would loose my appetite for DDO too.



    *Whale: Someone who spends a lot of money in a game. In competitive pay-to-win browser/flash/facebook games they are often met with contempt.

  6. #586
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    I don't disagree with you. Just pointing out that if Turbine is dead-set on removing Tokens of the Twelve they still have an option that would make their player-base happy - make heroic TR'ing free for all characters 20+.
    Not going to happen. That would mean removing a money maker from the store. That's fine if they want to phase out tokens, which I believe they said many moons ago, but first they need to do something about old epics to make players want to run them for more than xp and a few good twink items. Like having Comms drop like fragments and tokens do in epics. These Comms can be added to any epic chest, even in Eveningstar and Shadowfell. Sagas are now pretty much working properly and I hear mostly good things about them. Turbine needs to give sagas more time before throwing a carrot into them making it the only place in game to find this special carrot.

  7. #587
    Community Member Gizeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    How am I supposed to understand the Saga system when it's been unavailable 90% of the time since its release due to bugs?

    What I do understand is that you intend to discontinue a working system for heroic TRing that all players are comfortable with in order to cram it into a new system (Sagas) that is so unstable that it'll break down if you even look at it in a funny way.

  8. #588
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I dont think duping is an issue for tokens, they're bound. The exploiters had their duped items destroyed. The issue that remains are the non bound items they were able to sell on the AH or give away.
    I know for a fact not all of them. I know some have enough tokens to never have to worry again.

  9. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I know for a fact not all of them. I know some have enough tokens to never have to worry again.
    Two things:

    1) Then actually find the dupers and deal with them

    and

    2) They still have enough tokens to TR from here to eternity, since they can turn them in before U20 hits.

    So it really doesn't address the problem of duped tokens in any meaningful way.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  10. #590
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    I am man who has probably spent thousands of dollars on this game (somewhat ashamed to admit) between Otto's boxes, Supreme Tomes, Hearts of Wood, and more.

    If this goes live with it's blatant cash grab (900 valcoms for a HTR heart at 17 valcoms for an Epic Hard is ridiculous) I can safely say I will stop giving Turbine money. I will then cap my characters, get bored, and stop playing altogether.

    First, another currency (Commendations of Valor) is idiotic. There are so many ingredients in this game that yet another one is borderline ludicrous. Stop making more ingredients! Make use of the ones you have!

    Second, 900? 2000? Ridiculously high numbers. A Large Ingredients bag only holds 2500. Stop making ingredients cost so g'd much!

    Third, Bound to Character is a terrible idea! Haven't you learned from Challenges, yet? And every other ingredient out there? The only ingredients that have been acceptable as BtC are the existing commendations because (a) they get you nice boosts, but are relatively unnecessary, or (b) justifiably bound due to them being required for raid loot (although extremely annoying as BtC).

    Fourth, putting Commendations of Valor as rewards only from Sagas is one of the worst ideas yet. You are practically invalidating all other benefits/reasons for Sagas. Additionally, you are invalidating all previous Eberron Epic content (besides GH) to the point of being completely obsolete!

    Stop being a ****, Turbine! Make sure that Hearts of Wood are achievable, not just available, and don't invalidate the benefits of Sagas.

  11. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    Thank you. Having spent many years in corporations, I realize the constraints under which you can post about this issue. I feel somewhat reassured because you went out of your way to comment. /bow
    Agree. Even though we do not know yet how what will be changed. If they will listen and let us in on the decision how this should go or not. It is still nice to see someone letting us know that it is noticed and having some effects.
    I also can imagine having to alter the plans and explaining nthis know is best not done without thinking it through very carefully.
    so thanks from me too.
    (i do however will keep supporting this cause till I find it has been done right, like I expect many others will do)

  12. #592
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alavatar View Post
    Fourth, putting Commendations of Valor as rewards only from Sagas is one of the worst ideas yet. You are practically invalidating all other benefits/reasons for Sagas. Additionally, you are invalidating all previous Eberron Epic content (besides GH) to the point of being completely obsolete!
    QFT, I would also add the challenges to that list. I enjoy those, but there would be little reason to run them anymore once they stop giving tokens.

  13. #593
    Community Member cave_diver's Avatar
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    Default 4:45 EST Turbine/Tolero where is your response

    So its 15 min till closing time...where is this response we were told that was coming
    Quote Originally Posted by moomooprincess View Post
    I ran Where there is Smoke ELITE on a level 4, first life 28 hit point rogue, never TRd, no guild buffs, using a hireling cleric. One shotted two times at the first dog area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesrali View Post
    Go munt your grandma while wearing my freeway mitt!
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  14. #594
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    QFT, I would also add the challenges to that list. I enjoy those, but there would be little reason to run them anymore once they stop giving tokens.
    Don't worry. Challenges will continue to give tokens.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  15. #595
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    If the response is going to be the usual bait-and-switch "After reviewing feedback from the weekend we have reduced the number of commendations/increased the number of commendations rewarded to aquired Heart of Woods" save it.

    Just about everyone knows your trick of setting things unreasonably high and then playing hero and reducing it, giving the illusion it was our idea. Give us a real solution and stop playing mindless games.
    Honest question. Do you really believe that the developers of this game are mustache twirling brigands who are "out to get" their player base? I keep seeing people intimating that this is all some weird conspiracy on Turbines part, and I don't get it. Why even continue using their product if you're all so convinced they're so sinister?

    Main: 18 Artificer, Thelanis

  16. #596
    The Hatchery Antiguo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    Honest question. Do you really believe that the developers of this game are mustache twirling brigands who are "out to get" their player base? I keep seeing people intimating that this is all some weird conspiracy on Turbines part, and I don't get it. Why even continue using their product if you're all so convinced they're so sinister?
    I personally envision them more Mr Burns-ish to be honest.

  17. #597
    2016 DDO Players Council UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiguo View Post
    I personally envision them more Mr Burns-ish to be honest.
    nah - more Mr Rogers --- or Barneyish. ;p

  18. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    Honest question. Do you really believe that the developers of this game are mustache twirling brigands who are "out to get" their player base? I keep seeing people intimating that this is all some weird conspiracy on Turbines part, and I don't get it. Why even continue using their product if you're all so convinced they're so sinister?
    I don't think they are out to get the player base. I am now where near seeing Turbine as "mustache twirling brigands" or sinister. I do believe that they think they are more clever than they are and try to slip stuff by us.

    I personally believe that if Turbine was frank, upfront and honest about what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve it, most people wouldn't have nearly as much anger they do now. Instead they give us partial numbers, don't tell us the rest and basically say "Have at it!" and force us to find the bad stuff.

    We are to the point where we aren't gawking at the good stuff during a preview, but trying to find what they are slipping past us. That's incredibly telling about how they approach us as customers.

    Lastly I can't speak for anyone other than myself but one of the most compelling reason I stay is because of the friends I have made over the past 6 years. And as soon as most of them start leaving I will leave too, and the trickle has started. But as long as I am here I will fight for the game I most wish to play.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 10-21-2013 at 05:11 PM.

  19. #599
    2016 DDO Players Council UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    I don't think they are out to get the player base. I think your having a hard time seeing things as others do because you seem to have a fairly vivid imagination. (nothing wrong with that AT ALL, but I am now where near seeing Turbine as "mustache twirling brigands" or sinister) I do believe that they think they are more clever than they are and try to slip stuff by us.

    I personally believe that if Turbine was frank, upfront and honest about what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve it, most people wouldn't have nearly as much anger they do now. Instead they give us partial numbers, don't tell us the rest and basically say "Have at it!" and force us to find the bad stuff.

    We are to the point where we aren't gawking at the good stuff during a preview, but trying to find what they are slipping past us. That's incredibly telling about how they approach us as customers.

    Lastly I can't speak for anyone other than myself but one of the most compelling reason I stay is because of the friends I have made over the past 6 years. And as soon as most of them start leaving I will leave too, and the trickle has started. But as long as I am here I will fight for the game I most wish to play.
    instead of trying the new content and cool things in U20 available on lamdaland this weekend - everyone was too busy (frustrated, angry, disappointed, shocked) protesting and discussing this one small change that has overwhelming impact.

  20. #600
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Good morning everyone! Just wanted to give a quick heads up that we've been reviewing all the Lamannia feedback so far, and we're working on a more detailed post regarding the rate at which Hearts can be earned. Thank you for taking time to provide feedback, to try the system, and to highlight areas of frustration.
    Please be aware that, as many players have pointed out, the RATE is not the core problem, but rather the BtC nature of the commendations, the limited scope of sagas, and the obviation of old epic content. I really hope that this is not something that will be overlooked.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

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