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  1. #501
    Community Member sdrocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erdrique View Post
    I have to voice my concern against this potential change as well. I can understand doing something like this specifically for the Epic Reincarnation, even possibly the Iconic Reincarnation, but removing the Tokens of the Twelve for the Heroic Reincarnations doesn't make any sense to me. I hope they don't implement this in the game .
    ??

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    My god this has to be the most unwanted change in the games history for a quiet and humble man like this to speak up.

    Thank you.

  2. #502
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    While I am glad that Turbine is "reviewing the feedback", what I don't understand is why they proposed this idea in the first place? Who thought this was a good idea? Is it the same person who thought that erasing ED XP was a good idea?

    Proposing ideas like this is taking up valuable development time that could be spent on other things. I understand the idea of changing the name of Tokens of the Twelve to better fit in with both Eberron and Faerun. But that's really all that needed to be changed is the name. I also understand the desire to make Sagas more rewarding. But all they had to do is add tokens to Saga rewards, not remove them from everywhere else.

    I guess what I'm saying is that some ideas lately seem too extreme. Maybe a little moderation is in order.

  3. #503
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Should be today, and is based on the feedback we've been reviewing from over the weekend.
    I really hope it's not going to be : the values are placeholder values.

    and it's going to address the following concerns :

    - Rate of acquiring the tokens ( or whatever you name it, should be similar as what we have now for the Tokens needed for the TR. Then you adjust the token cost for Epic and Iconic TR from there )
    - BTA and not BTC
    - Ties to Saga ( as in Absolutely NOT tied to Sagas )
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  4. #504
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    I really hope it's not going to be : the values are placeholder values.

    and it's going to address the following concerns :

    - Rate of acquiring the tokens ( or whatever you name it, should be similar as what we have now for the Tokens needed for the TR. Then you adjust the token cost for Epic and Iconic TR from there )
    - BTA and not BTC
    - Ties to Saga ( as in Absolutely NOT tied to Sagas )
    I recognize the rhetoric Tolero used in the "we are reviewing" post. No hint of a change. This system seems to be going live regardless of how much we protest. *sigh*
    There is no free lunch.

  5. #505

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    * Yes, for the most part. I've been finding that the quests don't always count, howeve. I'm not entirely sure what causes that.
    * Not very easy to track, having to run back to the NPC is no fun. I think the ideal would be to have each Saga tracked in a tab in the Quest Panel- or at least the read out of 'quest's to complete + difficulty of quests completed'.

    * I do try to multitask, although I'm not entirely sure what happens if I claim one saga that shares others.

  6. #506
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    I recognize the rhetoric Tolero used in the "we are reviewing" post. No hint of a change. This system seems to be going live regardless of how much we protest. *sigh*
    I don't need to wait on the rest of the dev team to say: this is incorrect.

  7. #507
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Should be today, and is based on the feedback we've been reviewing from over the weekend.
    Why do you need feedback to realize running 795 quests per TR is unrealistic? You should know these things..
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  8. #508
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Good morning everyone! Just wanted to give a quick heads up that we've been reviewing all the Lamannia feedback so far, and we're working on a more detailed post regarding the rate at which Hearts can be earned. Thank you for taking time to provide feedback, to try the system, and to highlight areas of frustration.
    Not just rate.

    How.

    BTA. I want to be able to hit 20 and heroic reincarnate right away.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  9. #509
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    I don't need to wait on the rest of the dev team to say: this is incorrect.
    Are you reviewing also the removal of the acqusition of Heroic Hearts of Wood from the 12?

    It's a big problem and I'd like a clear answer on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  10. #510
    Community Member Cleanincubus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    I don't need to wait on the rest of the dev team to say: this is incorrect.
    If we can't get Heroic Hearts of Wood with Tokens, then yes, that is correct.

  11. #511
    Hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    I don't need to wait on the rest of the dev team to say: this is incorrect.
    You also said that when we argued about the amount of collectables, XP and other stuff and they were pushed thru anyways. I don't believe Turbine when you say that anymore.

    How about justification as to why anyone thought the numbers presented whether they are "placeholders" or something else were even a good enough idea to be put in the game?

    We aren't stupid. And I'm not saying your trying to send that message but that's the message your sending irregardless..

    A simple explanation as to the changes is not going to be enough. I and others want to know why you keep coming up these outrageous ideas.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 10-21-2013 at 11:27 AM.

  12. #512
    Hero LordDunmore's Avatar
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    Default Is this A Subtle (or Not So Subtle) result of the "Duping Bug"

    Ok, I have to ask.

    Is this switching to the Sagas change and thereby eliminating the Tokens of the 12 at all related (even in a minor way) to the recent "Duping Bug"? The timing of this change at least begs the question to be asked.

    If so, why are you punishing the players that had absolutely nothing to do with it? If there are now thousands or millions of those tokens, action should be taken to remove them from the offenders, rather than just make the tokens completely worthless to everyone in the game?

    If not, I hope that Turbine really sees and deals with the 100% negative reaction to this proposed change.

  13. #513
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordDunmore View Post
    Ok, I have to ask.

    Is this switching to the Sagas change and thereby eliminating the Tokens of the 12 at all related (even in a minor way) to the recent "Duping Bug"? The timing of this change at least begs the question to be asked.
    Of course it is. Notice how Tolero purposedly missed all our questions on the matter.

    She said they are only reviewing the numbers of Commendations and Sagas. Not one single word on the removal of Hearts from the 12, THE MAIN PROBLEM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  14. #514
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    First phase out dungeon tokens, second review amount of comms received for sagas in relation to actual cost of hearts, third grant comms upon completion of any epic quests in FR or EB in the stead of tokens. Inform us of this change neow, as we will use the time we have between now and U20 to use up the tokens we already have.

    If you going to get rid of functionality get rid of them altogether.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Miow; 10-21-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  15. #515
    Pirate Hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by dTarkanan View Post
    I've been finding that the quests don't always count, howeve. I'm not entirely sure what causes that.
    Dunno if this applies to you, but if you are dead when the quest finishes, it does not count. No idea if that's wai or not, it's been reported a lot but no response so far.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

  16. #516
    Community Member Stonemerge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Just about everyone knows your trick of setting things unreasonably high and then playing hero and reducing it, giving the illusion it was our idea. Give us a real solution and stop playing mindless games.
    +2

  17. #517
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    I don't need to wait on the rest of the dev team to say: this is incorrect.
    Thank you. Having spent many years in corporations, I realize the constraints under which you can post about this issue. I feel somewhat reassured because you went out of your way to comment. /bow
    There is no free lunch.

  18. #518
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    People might be interested in the new thread that I just posted in this same section.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Woods-changes

    Do we deserve or not an answer on the removal of Heroic Hearts of Wood now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  19. #519
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    People might be interested in the new thread that I just posted in this same section.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Woods-changes

    Do we deserve or not an answer on the removal of Heroic Hearts of Wood now?
    http://mmofallout.com/player-protest...update-in-ddo/

    MMOFallout has an article on the issue as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  20. #520
    The Hatchery Dielzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    1 - The working of Sagas are pretty easy to follow
    2 - The tracking is horrendous. Having to run around and find the NPCs with no in-game UI to support it? Why is it so hard to have a Saga tab on our Adventure Compendium? I want it to be formatted like an Excel spreadsheet with Quest Names down the left and Saga Titles along the top. Each Saga Title should have a hover-text description of where to find whom. Each header should also list total completions of that saga this life, just for funsies.
    3 - I imagine most people are doing the same thing as me, and primarily running their preferred saga over and over, with the occasional dip into the others to fill in the gaps their preferred one doesn't cover.

    3b -- Let's be at our most efficient, we'll run every quest in any of the 6 Epic Sagas. We'll run them all on hard, gaining 100% bonus XP over listed base (20% daily, 5% epic tome, then 75% from no deaths, no reentries, kills, traps, etc.) which is way low compared to actual in-game earnings, not to mention we won't include Ship or Item XP bonus, which is another 10%.

    194,000 for 10 Gianthold Quests
    78,000 for 4 LoD Chain
    63,500 for Eveningstar 21s
    63,000 for Eveningstar 22s
    49,500 for Demonweb Chain
    34,000 for 2 Eveningstar Side Quests
    57,000 for Druid's Curse chain
    80,000 for High Road chain
    90,000 for Wheloon chain
    93,500 for Stormhorn chain
    ---------
    802,400 (*2 for the bonus XP) = 1.6m XP
    6 Sagas, at 17ish commendations each = 100 Comms

    So, in order to earn a HEROIC TR, you will have to run those quests 9 times in order to have the parts to TR, which means you will earn 14.4m XP, which means in the time to earn enough parts to Heroic TR, you will have earned enough experience to go from 21-28 TWICE!

    This math is low for how much XP you will actually earn, and doesn't even include multiple runs of various quests because of the difficulties of PUG groups needing different quests.

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