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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Yes, I understand how sagas work.

    Tracking them is a bit of a pain since you have to memorize where all the saga people are and you have to go to Eveningstar (which is still too much of a pain to visit) to see where you are in most sagas. All saga givers should be found in one location (I would vote the marketplace). The hall of heroes could also be an option but only if you give us a way to get to the hall of heroes without logging out. I still have not purchased the hall of heroes upgrade because I have no interest in logging out just to teleport. Honestly, I don't know why you don't just sell permanent teleport feats in the DDO store (that last through TRing). You could sell them for a variety of locations (they would work exactly like the teleport dragon mark abilities but with infinite uses per day). This is both more useful than the hall of heroes and would allow you to sell far more (since you could make a teleport feat for every single location giving us much more to buy).

    Currently I do not multi-task because I only own two sagas (MOTU and Gianthold). I will not be purchasing the new expansion or the High Road until you have a sale or build your own cart event. I don't know what is taking you so long to have such a sale (we are long past due for a built your own cart event), but I can wait. If a sale does not happen before I lose interest in the game, then I will just leave. Do not underestimate the my patience in waiting for a sale. You will not get me to pay full price, so holding out on a sale is not helping your bottom line.
    Everyone who is not in the true definition of "hardcore" is looked down on as a "casual", unwilling or incapable of understanding the true brilliance of having twelve-year-olds insult you while they are teabagging your virtual corpse. - Christian Ward columnist for The Escapist

  2. #322
    Community Member Stonemerge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    1. Of course, we do. We run "The Pit", solve 3D-Puzzles and create Greensteel Items, so why do you think anyone would not understand THAT system.

    2a. I read the Wiki and write the quests off to a sheet of paper, When one is done, i strike that quest out. If enough are done, i went to the specific saga guy and claim my reward. ... we have 2013 and you are not able to give me a GUI for that (btw "/quest" and "/ransack" play in the same league)

    2b. I do not understand why quests are in a saga or not - seems pretty random to me. Gianthold is easy ... that's all the quests in gianthold. And all Necro-Quests could be a "Necro-Saga" or if u add Delera the "Undead-Hunter"-Saga. Or all Raids combined could be the "Raider-Saga". But for "The Chosen of Mystra" i need my paper sheet.

    3. who cares - if i need the quest, i will do it



    sorry for my english, my german is better

  3. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    All saga givers should be found in one location [...] The hall of heroes could also be an option but only if you give us a way to get to the hall of heroes without logging out.
    This is a fantastic idea, and you already can enter the Hall of Heroes on live without logging out, even if you're totally free to play. There are two entrances, one in the market and one in Eveningstar.

    All saga NPCs in the Hall of Heroes would be a great stopgap until they (eventually? hopefully?) move the saga stuff into a revised adventure compendium.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Yes. When I finally found the saga NPCs and worked out what they meant where. And then I found another in the harbour place.

    Fairly easy to track progress. I just walk up to the NPC and look at my list of what is left.

    I don't really multi-task my sagas. Although when I do look at what is left I tend to go and look all 7 at once (which makes it a bit of pain that they're in 5 different places) and anything overlapping will stick out more. When I look at saga lists I will generally notice that they're all together in one pack and mentally note "oh at some point I need to do the high road" or "GH sides".) This is for epic only. For heroic I haven't really bothered with sagas except to note that if I run what I usually run I'll get them. And therefore to mentally note that I will need to check them sometime eventually to pick up the rewards.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  5. #325
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    KEEP TR VIA TOKENS

    That's all that this boils down to. Don't ask me about sagas. Sagas are fine, do whatever you want with them. Sagas are to DDO what campaigns are to PnP D&D, an overarching story arc that unites individual play sessions (quests). We know how they work, and they work the way we expect them to right now.

    Just don't take away our ability to TR as conveniently as we've come to expect, without the Store.

  6. #326
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    I wrote down some stuff on sagas when I realized that saga feedback is related, but derailing this thread. I don't quite get how saga feedback is relevant at this particular place.


    I had a longer answer but the short one is this: Yes, I know how this buggy, inconsistent and unpredictable system works, but I dont run it since there's nothing interesting to do at cap and the content requirements choices are too restrictive for me as a premium player.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 10-19-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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  7. #327
    Founder AnubisPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)

    Hi...here is my 2PP:

    Preface. I understand the following:
    1. This is a seven + year old game and there obviously is a need for new revenue streams to keep things afloat.
    2. It is appropriate to have changes in the game that may be a bit unpopular...but PLEASE do not Windows 8 DDO!

    That said, IMHO heroic TR was not broken. I do not have any metrics to support me, but I can say that I've used both epic quests and Cannith challenges to get fragments/tokens to obtain THofWood. There have also been several instances when I have simply purchased THofWood in the DDO store. I liked having both options. Again I'm not sure what the sales numbers are like for the THofWood.

    The argument that I've seen here complaining about having to do epic quests for comms is moot. We always have had to do epic something to get tokens/fragments.

    I'm not against phasing out tokens for comms, but they should be somewhat equivalent in availability. Theoretically, the devs could make ALL epic quests drop comms instead of only the Eberron epics. Even if each quest dropped LESS comms than fragments, the amount of quests that now drop them would significantly be increased.

    My suggestions are:

    1. Phase Tokens of the Twelve out as a means to get THofWood. Eliminate challenge turn ins. That's coming. I know this, I understand.
    2. Offer comms as an end reward for ANY epic quest. DECREASE the amount given compared to Token fragments(this would account for MORE quests that drop them). Scale it accordingly so EE gets a larger amount.
    3. Maintain the Saga comm reward, but offer a bit more than "17" as illustrated in a previous post. A reward of 17 comms is not worth doing a Saga to that end.
    4. Offer well-priced options in the store, including "offer you can't refuse" pricing on the expansions.

    It is my hope that a balance can be found between the need to generate revenue in the DDO store and the availability of TR options to those who grind toward that end.

    This balance can curb the "canceling subscription" posts that have littered the forums.

    My opinion is only driven by what I see and understand. I obviously don't know of all of the driving forces behind some of the proposed decisions. From what I've read so far in the very heated threads is that there is a paradox going on. These decisions appear to be generating the opposite of their intent...
    Last edited by AnubisPrime; 10-19-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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  8. #328
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    yes, unfortunately. (Will force people to play all quests in an ark unless they pay to skip some)

    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    Very difficult. You have to run around to different places and talk to quest givers to track them. The status of each saga should be in one place. a possible palce would be to add a "Sagas" selection in the quest journal where you could browse the same information you can find out by talking to the quest givers. (what quests of a saga you have done and at what difficulty and what is missing.

    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)

    Yes, but mostly by accident, due to the hard way of finding out what the status is but occasionally by design.

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Just a few number.
    I am a middle gamer (not completely noob, not hardcore top) and i usually play with my boyfriend healer + melee two person party.
    We spent in media half an hour to do a quest.
    Impossible Demands is a five minute quest, Trought a Mirror Darkly took a good hour.

    We cannot play more than 4/5 quest at day.
    So with five quest we need two days to complete the shortest sagas.
    More probably three or four days. There are the raids that takes time, and there are helm farming and other things nice to do with our guild.


    With the actual sistem we can do tokens for reincarnation about in a month without a particular farming.
    If we need three day for a single saga, 2000/17 = 117*3 = 352 days for 2000 commendations.

    Ok, we can multitask sagas, but there are also days that we cant play full time, we have also our nerd social life, so we can do only two or one quest.
    Want you think that my numbers are too high? Well even if i will spent six month to do one hearth is six time too much.

    And buying hearths from the store is not an option.

    Edit

    About Sagas.
    I liked a lot the idea becaus it gives a prize for players that play all the content of the game.
    I have all the pack so is not a problem of money for me, but there is in all sagas that quest that is a thorn in the CENSORED and that i really don't like to do. I'm not a vip, i cant skip i can just do some quest in casual, but... WHY i must play quest i don't like so often? In my idea doing sagas one or two times at life is good, i like variety.
    Farming them ever and ever because is the only option to do hearts is horrible and painfull.
    My top goal in the game is play the quest that i need for equip, and that ones that i like for the story, non focus the most of my time on sagas and commendations. Sagas like the cherry on the cake are good, sagas as a MUST to DO are not funny at all.
    Cut a zero from the request of commendations, and the system will be decent. Not very good for us, but at least decent.
    Last edited by Gwyxxx; 10-19-2013 at 05:58 PM.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Okay, a calm, direct feedback point. Here we go:

    Sagas are pretty straightforward attempt to add a link to certain quests to give them more value. Obviously, the quests chosen must be P2P to encourage revenue as well.

    Saga tracking is a fail. If you want me to run Sagas make them a readily available little window like the "Go see Dectaran...." nuisance bubble. Only make it a hideable window with a little eye I can click when I want to see the full status. Oh, and you might want to give the Saga peeps another symbol over their head. I just glanced past them for a week til I really started looking.

    Multi-task sagas? I'm probably more like your Average Joe when it comes to information. If you don't tell me multiple quests are related, I won't make an effort to figure it out. I'll stumble across it months later when I finally run the sagas on purpose.

    So the overall feedback here is that to me the Sagas did not make a more coherent or compelling story in the game. Oh, and making them the only way to reach TR will make me less likely to continue as VIP. I paid for the packs so I'm sure I'll keep playing, but the revenue stream from this player will end.

  11. #331
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    My anger is not directed at Tolero but the place between the rock and the hard place this puts me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    You don't need to be a college graduate to understand how Sagas work. It's just window dressing on the old quest chains.

    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    It's harder than trying to code in Assembly while someone pulls out your toenails one by one. Seriously. I've been playing for three years. The only changes to the Adventure Compendium or the Quest Journal in that time has been the addition of the challenges page and the useless column for how many LFMs are up for a quest. I think it might be time to update something that players use that actually needs updated badly.

    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    I've yet to bother to complete a saga, although this life I'll probably finish the heroic GH one.

    I'm a TR addict. I don't bother running epics for anything but XP and sometimes good loot. Running epic sagas is mostly counter-intuitive for that process. Furthermore, despite playing for so long, I'm a premium player and not a VIP. I don't own Druid's Deep, High Road, or Shadowfell because almost every player I've asked told me they are steaming piles of **** that are not worth my TP over, say, finally picking up Attack on Stormreach. I personally will not run every single Gianthold/Eveningstar quest 53 times just so I can TR once. That would take me from TRing 2 toons once every couple months to TRing once a year.

    Letting this hit Live as is gives your playerbase the ogre's choice: Stay with DDO and slowly "die" as the metric ****-ton of quests you have to run to TR kills your soul, or "die" quickly and move on to another game.
    Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas


  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    They need to be BTA to come anywhere near what we have now. Also agreed on the need to connect cannith challenges into the new system.
    True, I did consider BTA to be so blindingly obvious at this point that that would have been a given. But then I remembered we're talking about counteracting a step that was blindingly obviously not necessary in the first place, so thanks for noting that.
    Last edited by Scraap; 10-19-2013 at 06:09 PM.

  13. #333
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    -Yes they are pretty straight forward.
    -They are very difficult to track. I feel as though these sagas were put together by a schizophrenic monkey. The saga npcs are scattered about the realms with no rhyme or reason, the quests in some sagas have nothing to do with one another often having one quest from an unrelated pack as an obvious cash grab to sell these packs. The whole thing is a sloppy mess and stinks of greed, corruption and disrespect for your players.
    -I guess unintentionally since I do not bother to track my progress with them.
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  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    KEEP TR VIA TOKENS

    That's all that this boils down to. Don't ask me about sagas. Sagas are fine, do whatever you want with them. Sagas are to DDO what campaigns are to PnP D&D, an overarching story arc that unites individual play sessions (quests). We know how they work, and they work the way we expect them to right now.
    This.
    Don't try to change the subject, please, allow us that level of respect. The community is upset about this planned change, and will continue to be. Asking us how we feel about another game mechanic is not relevant to the complaint we have, namely that the goalposts for TRing a character are being moved significantly, and by doing so, ddo players old and new will be and already are severely demotivated to put any more time OR money into the game.

    Of course, if you and the high-ups are happy with that, say so now.
    Plenty of other things I can throw what's left of my student loan at.
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  15. #335

    Default Don"t force us to run sagas

    Ok i have played this game for almost 4 years now. I love this game and I have fun playing it. That being said you forcing me to run sagas is not cool. I like being able to farm tokens and tr. I do not want to spend months to run sagas to get to tr. This is not fair to your players that play this game to get completionist. I am only 11 lifes away from being a triple completionist and i don't want it to take another 3 years to get.
    I Really think that you need to rethink this. Getting rid of the epic tokens is a completely a bad idea. If this happens i may just leave the game and not play any more and just go back to playing my xbox.

  16. #336
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    I decided that I'd multi-task my sagas. Since I ran WoC and Chains 2 and 3 yesterday, I ran chain 1 today, and Well Well Well ( Don't Drink the Water )
    I skipped House of Death Undone (again. don't like it), and paid the 5 shards to skip In The Belly of the Beast, because this character has never been deep enough into underdark to get the Riz Malag portal and getting out there is a beeyotch.

    I ran through on normal, and paid the 15 shards to upgrade to an Epic Hard completion list.
    Bug: Everytime I've been prompted to pay shards, I have been locked into mouselook mode (I was in that mode when starting the conversation). You get no pointer, and can't toggle, so you can hit enter to accept or escape to decline the dialog, but, yea, bug.



    Note that the menace chain is 13 quests total, longer than The End of Eberron.

    16 commendations for an Epic Hard completion.

    "Multi-tasking" both sagas and running 17 quests yields 33 commendation.

    That's completing both sagas 28 times for a heroic heart.
    476 quests for a F2P, 448 quests for a VIP, and 420 quests for a VIP that's willing to kick in 280 shards.

    35 times for an Iconic true heart.
    595 quests for a F2P, 560 quests for a VIP, and 525 quests for a VIP that's willing to kick in 350 shards.

    61 times for an Epic heart.
    1037 quests for F2P, 976 for a VIP, and 915 for a VIP that's willing to kick in 610 shards.

    88 times for both an Epic and Heroic heart.
    1496 quests for a F2P, 1408 for a VIP, and 1320 quests for a VIP that's willing to kick in 880 shards.

  17. #337

    Default Yeah....

    Yeah, that's not gonna fly. Not at all.

    That's game-killingly bad. Star Wars NGE-bad.

  18. #338
    Community Member malkav1973's Avatar
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    Default Suggested Solutions

    This new means of getting True Hearts is a terrible idea. I've come up with 3 options for solutions that will resolve the issue:

    1. Simplest, and preferred:
    Eliminate the Commendations of Valor entirely. We already have an item which stacks in Ingredient Bags that perfectly fills the proposed purpose for Commendations of Valor. Namely, Tokens of the Twelve.

    Make Tokens available as one of the rewards for completing Sagas. Something like 2 Tokens for a Normal completion, 4 for Hard, and 6 for Elite feels about right compared to the effort of getting Tokens in other ways.

    Keep HTR Hearts available for 20 Tokens. Make ITR Hearts cost 25 Tokens, and ETR Hearts 40 Tokens. This keeps them in line with the Commendation pricing model already described. (Small reduction in ETR cost, as I don't think they should be more than double the cost of an HTR Heart.) It doesn't really matter if this is through the vendor in the Twelve, or somewhere else.

    Not only would this silence objections to the new method of getting Hearts, it would make Sagas more desirable by making their rewards more widely useful, instead of narrowly specific.

    2. Alternative
    If my first suggestion is somehow objectionable, how about making it possible to exchange Tokens for Commendations of Valor? Using the established costs of HTR hearts for comparison, 1 Token should be tradable for 45 Commendations of Valor.

    I think this solution is inferior to my 1st solution, as it retains a new, unnecessary item (CoV), and also solution #1 provides a Saga reward that is more widely useful.

    3. Alternate Alternative.
    If the first 2 solutions are no good, my 3rd idea is to replace Tokens of the Twelve entirely with Commendations of Valor, and make the CoV BTA. Actually, CoV should replace Token fragments.

    Everything that currently requires Tokens would now require 100x more CoV than it now requires Tokens. Everything that gives out tokens or fragments would give CoV instead. All existing fragments in peoples' inventories would be converted into CoVs. Whole Tokens would be exchangeable through the Stone of Change for 100 CoV.

    Since this conversion would devalue a CoV to about 45% of their current proposed value, Hearts would be re-priced as follows:
    2000 CoV for HTR
    2600 CoV for ITR
    4500 CoV for ETR

    Of these 3 solutions, I think #1 is the best and would make the most people happy. #2 is the simplest, and I think an acceptable compromise. #3 is actually slightly ridiculous, but it preserves Turbine's apparent desire to introduce more types of Commendations. It also has the highest potential to break existing parts of the game with new bugs & glitches.

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    1. Yes I understand how they work.

    2. It's a little difficult to track progress right now with the sagas. I don't really like having to find the correct NPC and talk to them in order to track my progress. I think it should be added to the Compendium as a separate section so we can look at our progress anywhere and easily find the name of the person we need to speak to to get our reward. I also think the sagas should be split up by chain, instead of, for example, including Through A Mirror Darkly in one saga, but not including any of the first four you have to do in order to be able to do Through A Mirror Darkly the first time. That seems extremely random and makes the sagas even more confusing.

    3. Yes I do multi-task the sagas. I play them in the order of which one is closest to being finished and then move onto the next one that is closest to being finished.
    Last edited by rosedarkthorn; 10-19-2013 at 07:55 PM.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    I rarely and I mean rarely post on the forums but this has actually caused me to do so *sigh*. So yes Tolero I will answer your questions in the hope this might contribute a little into why this "is" not "might be" but "is" a bad idea.

    1. I know very well how sagas work. In detail, i talk to an npc to get a list of quests I can do to complete said saga which in turn nets me an additional reward on top of the exp and loot I acquire from doing said quests on their own. In this I give sagas a '+' on the good chart.

    2. I find it partly easy to track my progress of my saga and I say partly due to me having to go back to the saga npc in order to view progress. There is no easy way to tell like there is with the /ransack or the /quest completions. So I would give this a '-' in the bad chart.

    3. I will gather every saga I can and run the quests in the biggest saga due to crossover mainly the time and effort put into completing one saga isn't really worth the reward you get. A great example of this is the 'Perils of Cormyr' saga which has quests ranging from lvl 15 to lvl 19 on some of the most uninspiring quests I have ever seen in DDO (sorry to be harsh but it is honest IMHO) out of the 5 chains and 2 side quests two of the chains 'Shadow Over Wheloon' and 'the Secret of the Storm Horns' feel like 80% if not more of the quests are just, how many mobs can we throw at the character, or what I like to call "Tower Defense Syndrome" where it just feels like there is no substance just have wave after wave thrown at you. I'm not going to continue on further with this subject mainly due to not wanting to make this wall of text any larger than it is going to be. So just going to put this in the "-" column.

    My main point is this, sagas are nice yes and can breed good-ish rewards "AS AN OPTIONAL" experience. Forcing players to choose that optional is like going to church and paying a "mandatory donation". Some of you might say it is still optional due to being able to buy the heart but still you get into the situation of this being a free to play game and advertised as such. Just going from a semi grind to get a heart to a full on multiple saga having multiple quests inside of them to get one is like telling a toddler to go from putting the ball in the circle to solve a puzzle into giving the same toddler a 1200 piece 3d puzzle of the Big Ben with nothing but "good luck". It just doesn't sound or look right.
    Last edited by Godsblight; 10-19-2013 at 08:10 PM.

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