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  1. #221
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    I see no reason at all to change the current system.

    Many players have been farming tokens for years and have a large supply of tokens on hand so that they can purchase hearts of wood for any of their characters.

    Why make something like tokens useless after so many years in game? If this goes through I can see it being the final straw for many people. I don't TR much but many of my friends do. If my friends stop playing then I will likely stop playing as well.

    also it is a bad idea to force players to choose between items like the commendations of valor and skill tomes. The current system does not force you to make such a choice. You get the tokens in the chest with other loot

    Keep the token system
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  2. #222
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    Dreadful change IMO. Its one thing having a new mechanic for the new (epic/iconic) reincarnations, but it sucks totally to take away from a perfectly good system of getting the current heroic reincarnation hearts.

    I vote for the "don't mess about with the current heroic" system option.

    As well as giving a couple of different ways to get them (such as a wide choice of quests or through the challenges), which is good because it allows for different play styles, but there needs to be a way for F2P players to get hearts - and sagas are a bad idea as they generally involve a large number of different packs.

    That being said, I am OK with sagas being ONE of the ways to get the new reincarnation items but they should not be the only way. Equally, the way for VIP players to get them should perhaps be easier than F2P. So here is my idea...

    All, yes ALL, epic quests drop a few of the new commendations. So you can in theory get a heart from farming just one quest. However, saga completions give a huge pile of commendations, in general with the greater the number of expansions packs involved in the saga increasing the bonus pile size.

    Thoughts?

  3. #223
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    BS.

    Removing TR purchase option from the twelve without giving other useful items to purchase with tokens is a deliberate screw over.
    You are replacing our option to achieve TR' hearts with a completely new system of ingredients, which currently are completely BTC.

    Trying to sugar coat this and make it seem like you are doing something good is an insult to a player base that sees the lie for what it is.

    Devs,

    Jotmon may be the calmest and most cheerful person I know who plays this game regularly. If you have even (Act of urinating)ed him off you have cooked up some seriously stinky (feces).
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  4. #224
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    No matter what drop rate of these new 'commendations of grind' (why not just call them TR cash?) might end up being we will be forced into a limited range of epic quests and be forced to complete huge chains of them to get any. Not interested! Keep the twelve tokens or make this new currency drop throughout the epic game, from individual quests and BtA.

    I happen to like the heroic game, I like my heroic static groups TRing together, trying new classes and playing all that familiar content. This will kill it for me.
    Looks like the time will soon come to get a new hobby.

  5. #225
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    With Update 20 and the upcoming new types of Reincarnation, we’re adding additional value to Epic Sagas and updating the method of acquiring True Hearts of Wood to better fit with our current content and level cap.


    Epic Sagas will allow you to earn Commendations of Valor that can be spent on the following rewards:

    • Heroic True Hearts of Wood
    • Iconic True Hearts of Wood
    • Epic Hearts of Wood


    The number of Commendations you earn will increase if you challenge yourself and earn higher difficulty Saga rewards.

    With these changes, the old “endgame” route of earning Reincarnations has been retired. Heroic True Hearts of Wood will no longer be available from the Epic vendor in The Twelve.

    To answer a couple of your questions:

    • Tokens of the Twelve are not being removed, and will still be usable at The Twelve to purchase a variety of Augments, as they do now.
    • Any True Hearts of Wood you currently have are still able to be used after Update 20.


    We’d love to hear your feedback after running Sagas on Lamannia and seeing how things work. Remember that Reincarnation is not yet ready for preview, however. Thanks!
    horrible decision. You have the game mechanic in place now, expand on it don't create new...

    sagas are too long to efficiently deal with getting a wood unless you get one per saga.
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  6. #226
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    With Update 20 and the upcoming new types of Reincarnation, we’re adding additional value to Epic Sagas and updating the method of acquiring True Hearts of Wood to better fit with our current content and level cap.


    Epic Sagas will allow you to earn Commendations of Valor that can be spent on the following rewards:

    • Heroic True Hearts of Wood
    • Iconic True Hearts of Wood
    • Epic Hearts of Wood


    The number of Commendations you earn will increase if you challenge yourself and earn higher difficulty Saga rewards.

    With these changes, the old “endgame” route of earning Reincarnations has been retired. Heroic True Hearts of Wood will no longer be available from the Epic vendor in The Twelve.

    To answer a couple of your questions:

    • Tokens of the Twelve are not being removed, and will still be usable at The Twelve to purchase a variety of Augments, as they do now.
    • Any True Hearts of Wood you currently have are still able to be used after Update 20.


    We’d love to hear your feedback after running Sagas on Lamannia and seeing how things work. Remember that Reincarnation is not yet ready for preview, however. Thanks!
    Here's my feedback: NO.

    This is just sad; I come back because I'm nostalgic for the game and see new good additions to it. I buy the new content. I see many others do the same exact thing. Never thought it'd take less than 2 months to encourage me to leave again. Sad. Sad. Sad.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  7. #227
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)

  8. #228
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    no bueno
    I disagree I think separating players artificially is a bad concept like the current system which has players that only level to 20 and other players that play to level 28 lacks any sense. The goal here is to get people to level to cap and then tr instead of level to 20 and tr again. I also think getting players to play a variety of quests instead of just farming one or two is going to retain more players in the end. Variety makes life mroe interesting. Obviously the devs need to add more sagas not just the Gianhtold and Faerun sagas. I am thinking a house saga which is House K, House D, and House P is one they should add.
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  9. #229
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    So where at the moment you can get an alt to 20, pass it 20 token and let it buy a true druidic heart and TR, with these proposals that's no longer an option.

    On the assumption that numbers aren't plucked out of thin air, how long have the dev team/producers calculated it would take a "typical" player to get from level 20 to 28 and have enough Commendations to Epic TR? Is it your thinking that an "Epic Life" should take 6 months, based on 12 hours gameplay per week?

    Heroic and Iconic True Heart of Woods are on the Lamannia store for 1495 TP each, but no Epic True Heart of Wood there yet. I'm curious to know what value you attach to these Epic Hearts and what you think the corresponding amount of effort would be.

    I don't believe for a minute that these numbers are just made up as you go.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    Intimately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    Not easy enough. There should be a Saga tab added to the Adventure Compendium to track them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Not as a specific goal.

    Now what can you do about allowing us to earn and exchange Tokens of the Twelve for these Commendations of Valor? And then reduce the number of Commendations to some sensible number that doesn't have us laughing out our collective a$$e$.

    Also massively disappointed that you're moving the goalposts from making Sagas an optional extra for a bit of extra amusement and rewards along the way, to becoming an integral requirement for any form of TR going forward. Massive disappointment.

  11. #231
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    I'll bite. I have a pretty clear idea how they work - one and done every quest in a chain/pack(s)/arbitrary lineup of quests to accumulate points towards a special end reward which varies based on aggregate difficulty of what you ran. Rinse and repeat for more rewards. Far as I'm aware, you can buy your way past one or two in the saga, in case one of them is That One Quest (grrrrrr, if I have to do Crucible on Elite again... sadly, I will IF I can TR again...)

    I don't find it that hard to track them, the Saga UI is simple enough to grasp at first glance. Adding something to the Quest Journal would help for keeping track at a glance, though. Gianthold's the easy one to track and the only one I've done, so apply as much salt as needed to my assessment on this point.

    I don't multitask yet, namely because the only saga I had access to was Gianthold, I had only just gotten a couple of toons to Eveningstar and hadn't started working on any of the sagas there to attempt multitasking.
    Last edited by TDarkchylde; 10-19-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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  12. #232
    Community Member Raoull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)

    -I understand how they work, but I'm not a good standard for ease of use (insanely long time gamer).

    -I find it horribly difficult to track my sagas. Notably, if you aren't going to have a always accessible spot to view them (like quest completions), at least have the decency to put all of the saga givers in one place.

    -Not really. Honestly, I haven't been running (much) stuff for the sole purpose of sagas. Every now and then I check out my lists when I run by guys, and if I'm close that may nudge me some. I have not yet completed a saga, but I have two toons that are about 3 quests off. I will certainly be finishing some in the relatively near future. But it is too difficult to track sagas to even care about multitasking them. Am I supposed to keep an offline spreadsheet?

    I also don't really like the fact that certain quests are for numerous sagas, yet most quests aren't for any sagas. There is so much overlap and haphazardness of the design. I'd like it better if there were more non-overlapping sagas. But really, that takes a back seat for me compared to how much I'd like it better if I could easily glance at all sagas, the way I can glance at favor.



    (And for the record, if the Lam values for heart trade ins ever make it to live, it will be a horrible mistake. I haven't posted specifically on that factor considering so many others have and I didn't have anything to add.)
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  13. #233
    Community Member Zzevel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    I do not play to complete a Saga, I play to group with my guildies, earn XP and flag... Heck even what LFM is posted shapes my play more than a SAGA list... If I HAPPEN to complete a Saga that is a bonus. To ME Sagas are just a way for TURBINE to try to force me to play their way, not my way.

    Sagas to me are a TERRIBLE idea, especially when you are FORCING me to do it to play YOUR way! And this is the NICE version of this post in my head, you have done a LOT of bad things but this one just takes the cake.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.
    It would be good to know the rationales and goals, instead of just the finished 'this is how we plan to do this'. It would be much easier to figure out suggestions if we'd know the motivation behind the changes. The main problem with the suggested changes is, that it would be impossible to TR at level 20. BtA commendations would be a big step towards solving this, but I do think removing the twelve token hearts is a bad idea, at least in short run. After a grace period maybe, but preferably not even then. The duping of the tokens can't be the reason for such a drastic change to TR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    The sagas are good. Pretty easy to understand, more reason to run multiple quests. Some sagas are weirdly big though, especially the ones containing the Shadowfail quests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    Pretty much impossible. You have to visit each questgiver individually to see your current status. You can remember the status when you only run with one epic toon, but when you play with multiple alts, every game session pretty much has to start with a visit to Eveningstar saga givers to remember the saga-status of that particular toon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Yes and no. Due to juggling several alts, I tend to check if some saga has just a few quests left, then try to do those. Repeat (with a fresh visit to every Saga giver). So, in effect this takes advantage of the quests counting towards several sagas, after finishing one, the other has fewer quests left so I try to focus on that.

    I wish there was a way to check sagas and their statuses from quest journal.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    What conversation rate? There is noone at the moment nor in the future probably.

    I think in moments like this, one should say:

    Hi Welcome
    That's kinda the point of asking. You must have mistaken me for a new player or something? Pleased to meet you.

  16. #236
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Personally, I understand how sagas (are supposed to) work, but the other questions are irrelevant to me, because I don't run saga-related quests.
    I play solo.
    I play in Eberron.
    I play heroic levels.
    And I don't much like Gianthold.

  17. #237
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    The one negative is running with others for a quest here or there is kind of discouraged. Perhaps I do not need a specific quest to complete a saga, but that is quest a buddy wants to run. I am not sure if you are going to be adding a ton of overlapping sagas, but it makes it a bit more complicated.
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  18. #238
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    I am surprised, but, thank you for working on the weekend to deal with this. I was expecting silence until monday, and am glad that is not the case.

    To answer your questions:
    play patterns and sagas-I do not run sagas. I play the quests I enjoy and will not ever ever play quests I do not enjoy. I can not stress enough how much I dislike the idea that the minds at turbine are trying to force me to play quests I do not enjoy in order to Heroic TR.
    Understand Sagas-Yes, I understand them, to me it seems clear how they work.
    Progress tracking-Easy but time consuming to track progress. If you all ever put out a saga that was not filled with quests I dislike, I would find it very nice to be able to open up the adventure compendium and be able to track my saga progress on it instead of having to run to the appropriate npc.
    Multitasking my sagas-No, but only because there are no sagas I willingly run.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 10-19-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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  19. #239
    The Hatchery Roland_D'Arabel's Avatar
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    Replies in red:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    Yes, absolutely.
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    Not easy. Having to go back and forth to all the many many saga givers is very inefficient. We need a tab on the character sheet or adventure compendium.
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    No. I might do this if I had an easier way to track them all. As is, I am not going to print out, write down or memorize all the various quests in each saga in order to do this.
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  20. #240
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    So we're still reviewing feedback at the moment, but just wanted to thank you all for providing comments and concerns regarding TR. This is a main focus of attention here in the dev pit.

    Additionally, we'd also like to hear from players regarding your play patterns and sagas, as this is related ...
    - Do you feel like you understand how sagas work?
    - How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas?
    - Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once)
    Do you feel like you understand how sagas work? --- Yes

    How easy do you find it to track your progress on sagas? --- Only way is togo to Saga giver to see what progress and why are you asking this when you already know this?

    Do you multi-task your sagas? (e.g. running a quest because you know it will count towards more than one saga at once) --- No i thought saga's was a form of bonus for running a group of quests?

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