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  1. #161

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    Don't sell hearts in the 12, fine, but instead add a conversion to the 12 for tokens:

    1 token converts to 50 comms of valor

    This means your 20 tokens you've ground out for a heart converts to 1000 comms of valor, enough to get your non-epic heart. (Averaging the prices of heroic and iconic hearts.) We as players can continue to farm tokens for TR as we always have, on separate alts and maybe even in cannith challenges. Plus we get the new additional avenue of saga rewards. Obviously, up the saga comm rewards by a factor of 10.

    If you remove tokens from the TR process completely you may actually kill the game.

  2. #162
    DDOWiki
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    if you are going to add more value on gameplay around the Saga system, do something with the craptacular UI first.
    everytime when we wanna check the progress, we have to find and go to the NPC, to open up the big confusing dialog.
    this is beyond frustrating. why cant you bother merging that with Adventure Compendium UI already?
    My HATE goes UNLIMITED!
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  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6PEBHO View Post
    1. introduce grind never seen before
    2. let players ragequit
    3. close servers due to low online
    4. ?????????
    5. PROFIT
    Correct, except the title should be Warner Brother's Cunning Plan.

    Removing heroic hearts from the Twelve is a game killer. Even reducing the cost of hearts by an order of magnitude will still mean forcing heroic characters to run level 24+ quests multiple times in order to heroic TR. This forcing the players to play the game Turbine's Way won't drive sales, it will make players leave.

    Doing this in a year, after they've raised the level cap to 30 and added 3+ raids at level 30 would probably be acceptable. Doing it now, in my opinion, will be the proverbial final straw...
    Last edited by PurpleTimb; 10-19-2013 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Grammar is hard!

  4. #164
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6PEBHO View Post
    1. introduce grind never seen before
    2. let players ragequit
    3. close servers due to low online
    4. ?????????
    5. PROFIT
    4. Sue the operators of reverse engineered servers.

  5. #165
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Users complain that U14 and Heroic Commendations obsoleted a lot of content and killed the raid scene.

    Turbine's respone is to create Commendations of Valor and kill the other half of Eberron.

  6. #166
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We’d love to hear your feedback after running Sagas on Lamannia and seeing how things work.
    You really do? Ok... Dumbest ****ing idea this year. That's all I have to say about this.
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  7. #167
    Community Member funnyone's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    I can feel my brain cells hurtling themselves off of a proverbial cliff just thinking about this.

    Somebody check the water supply over at Turdbin HQ
    ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º° ¨
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  8. #168
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    With Update 20 and the upcoming new types of Reincarnation, we’re adding additional value to Epic Sagas and updating the method of acquiring True Hearts of Wood to better fit with our current content and level cap.
    What this misses of course (as several other decisions of late have reflected as well), is the portion of the populous that is already too bored/irritated/unwilling/unable to interact with that portion of your product in a manner they find entertaining in the first place, and turn to TRing to keep interacting with a different portion of your product.

    I really do think ya'll severely underestimate how much of a safety-valve the TR phenomenon is for player retention.

  9. #169
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyone View Post
    Somebody check the water supply over at Turdbin HQ
    Then get me some of it, I want to get that high.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    I really do think ya'll severely underestimate how much of a safety-valve the TR phenomenon is for player retention.
    I have to agree.

    I think the people in charge at Turbine just don't understand that the TR system as it stands now is one of the few things retaining many players in the game.

    I also don't think they understand how much some people don't care for Epics (although it's a much smaller number since MOTU).

    I also don't think they understand the deep hatred that players have not only for the poor content that's been released since MOTU.

    Additionally, besides the poor content (including this joke called the Shadowfell "expansion" that's now being left in the dust faster than House C Challenges), I doubt they understand that there are people who not only hate the Forgotten Realms setting, but prefer the uniqueness of Eberron. (Yes, there's also the reverse of people loving the Forgotten Realms setting and hating Eberron.

    I also don't think they know how much people really would like Eberron to continue. Especially the Amarath storyline. As an expansion even!

    Finally, if it hasn't sunk in by now, players are tired of new systems being added to just make old systems obsolete. How many things have been added just since MOTU (a year ago) that have been disregarded and not updated? Eternal potions. The various commendations. Named gear. Possibly Monster Manuals that haven't been released in 8 months. ... and those are things I can name from this year. This isn't counting the complete disregard of updating Cannith Crafting, Epic Tokens, Epic Crafting, House C Challenges...just to name a few.

  11. #171
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Okay, I figured out what is really going on here. The devs ****ed up. They introduced Web of Chaos in U13 which granted F2P players the opportunity to earn epic tokens (now tokens of the twelve) without ever spending a dime. In U12 they had also introduced Vaults of the Artificers, and, if a player was truly fastidious about collecting daily challenge tokens, he could have enough to farm challenge ingredients after hitting 20 and exchanging them for tokens. That meant a F2P player could theoretically level up to 20 using only the points earned through favor to buy packs along the way. And every life they earn more favor and more TP to buy packs. Eventually said F2P player has enough points to buy whatever packs he wants and never spend a dime while still being able to participate in the endgame, be that TRing, epic-level content, or raiding (the latter of which is rather empty at the moment). Furthermore, WotC has seemingly abandoned Eberron as a supported setting. Therefore Turbine, which, like WotC is a Hasbro subsidiary, is forced to do the same. It's all about FR now. FR has always been a big seller. WotC and Hasbro want to cash in on that. So most sagas take place there. That part makes sense. Lots of folks like Eberron, myself included, but the facts are FR has more name recognition and probably brings more players to the game than Eberron. So we just gotta deal with that.

    How do we deal with these issues? This thread is incontrovertible evidence that the current path of Commendations of Valor is not going to fly with the players. I've read through it and haven't seen a single player who thinks it is a good idea. We know Turbine wants to sell us on FR. We know Turbine wants us to run sagas. We know Turbine wants us to use the new reincarnation options (iconic and epic), so they've given us a system to run sagas to earn our way there. But the sheer immense quantity of Commendations of Valor appears mighty extreme. At the present moment it takes a few hours tops to farm for tokens of the twelve. Run Time is Money or epic normal Devil Assault. Choose your poison. We TR players know the drill. After a few hours we have our tokens and are ready to TR again. I can see how Turbine might think that is just a little too easy. But completing a saga often takes MUCH longer than a few hours. Most require something on the order of 12 quests. And if you are running epic elite to get the best possible reward, it is probably going to take awhile to chew through those millions of hit points possessed by all the mobs you encounter along the way. And we are going to have to run these sagas HOW MANY TIMES to get 900 commendations of valor which are NOT bound to account (which means you HAVE to run your TR in epics to get them instead of farming them out with an epic toon)?

    If Turbine is insistent upon going this route, which it appears they are, then here is what I would consider the most grind which would be acceptable and reasonable: One completion of almost any saga on Epic Elite should guarantee you enough commendations of valor for a heroic TR. Two completions of almost any saga on Epic Elite should guarantee you enough commendations for an epic reincarnation or iconic reincarnation. Anything more just makes grinding for commendations of valor a complete and utter bore. And that isn't even taking into account the fact that many (if not most) players simply aren't sufficiently experienced, geared, or epic destiny capped to handle Epic Elite. Find a way to make that work and maybe we can start talking. The way it is right now will kill TRing, and make epic reincarnation and iconic reincarnation dead on arrival. The consequences of this would be dire. Players will cap, realize there is no good loot to farm for, no true endgame raid (seriously what is up with that? You just released a giant expansion with a level bump and NO NEW RAID?), and then they will simply stop playing. About 80% of the most active players in my guild, the second largest in Argonesson, are highly dedicated to the TR game. I suspect the situation is similar for many of the other large guilds on my server and others.

    I understand Turbine wants more ways to generate revenue. Fine. Make us buy the FR packs and GH so we can actually run the sagas that grant commendations of valor. I get that. You want to play in the endgame you need to invest a few bucks in the game. Makes sense. Maybe reduce the cost of a TR Heart in the DDO Store so that one can be purchased for a reasonable price at the end of a life (right now I do not consider them reasonably priced). But you still have to keep us playing in the first place. Grinding out saga rewards just for a TR Heart sounds about as fun as capping out Legendary Dreadnaught levels on a pure wizard caster build, except I can accomplish the latter in a few hours if I devote a lot of energy to it. But at least I get 1 2/3 fate points out of that.

    Reconsider this, Turbine. This is a bigger fiasco than the initial proposal for epic reincarnation in the first place. I am NOT using hyperbole here.

  12. #172
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    This just plain disgusts me. It's so monstrously dumb that I can't figure out how it got past the brainstorming phase.

    Let me spell it out for you Turbine, because you don't seem to understand-
    Make up your damn mind, and stop changing the game on us every week. Stop changing the game mechanics, stop changing the loot tables, and stop acting like money-hungry zombies who can't make up their mind what game they want us to play. Start making smarter decisions to begin with so you don't have to go upending everything every single damn update and start communicating with your playerbase.
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  13. #173
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    Short version: If this goes live as currently presented, I'm out.

    Longer version: This idea is an insult to the players. I don't TR all that often, but when I do I do it at 20th lvl. If Turbine goes through with this stupid plan, I will have to continue to 24 or 25th level and play in epic content when I have no wish to do so. This ruins my enjoyment of the game, and will make me not want to play anymore. Turbine is obviously out of touch with its player base, and either does not care about its customers or is willfully breaking the game to push people away to other games. The plan as presented is asinine and I will drop my sub and not come back if it goes thru.

  14. #174
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    I'm shocked of this change. It's unfriendly to f2p players and the commendation amount required is ridiculously high. Also, the BtC portion isn't making me happy, as I have a number of alts I might want to TR.

    Why discontinue Tokens of the Twelve in the first place?

    I see that this is an initiative to make the option of buying these items in the shop more attractive. While this will probably increase the sales of hearts (of all kinds), this will also probably decrease the total number of players who TR - some of those who spend their TPs for content and cosmetics, but get their hearts via turn-ins, will not opt to TR, but to stay at cap. This change might thin out the playerbase.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 10-19-2013 at 04:23 AM.
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  15. #175
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Plain and simply, if this goes live as is, I'm done. I am ****ing done.
    I'm not addicted enough to this game to be spoon fed Bull****, smile and ask for more.

    I'm tired of this ****, and I won't put up with it.
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  16. #176
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    Thumbs down

    Just close the game dev's. Really getting sick of how you guys keep messing with systems that work and introduce new ones that just get exploited or bugged.

  17. #177
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Ridicolous. 17 Comms. I'm pretty sure they will come up with the "placeholder" excuse.

    A Hard saga better give 60-80% of the required Comms for an Epic Heart of Wood. People TR because they hate Epic levels and you are forcing them down their throat. This is just stupid.

    A True Elite saga better give 100-120% of the required Comms. Two sagas ON EE (10-20 quests) is the max I can accept for a TR/EpicReinc.

    And they better put back the Hearts in the 12.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  18. #178
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Btw, with thread Changes to TR heart purchases are not okay, we are at almost 300 replies WHERE EVERYONE AGREES THAT THIS CHANGES IS NOT GOOD (just to avoid to say ****).

    I think it's a first one for this game's community. Not a single one has been in favor of this change. If this goes live, they would be really, really stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  19. #179
    Community Member Franke's Avatar
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    No. From a personal standpoint this is an unacceptable change to the game mechanics. I only TR in order to alleviate the boredom due to no endgame, a change of scenery if you will, a way of passing the time until someone at Turbine has an epiphany and we get some new raids up and running. Now you want me to recurrently run boring content in order to gather resources to recurrently run boring content?

    This would be a fail of biblical proportions.

  20. #180
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Updated the OP to everyone can see the most recent news. Thanks to Systern for his post.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

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