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  1. #61
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    If you're using magic to bypass the laws of physics that is realistic within the established lore of the game.

    Have none of you played pnp before? The whole concept of D&D came about from a combat simulation game. The ops suggestion is exactly the type of combat D&D already has. Although he is taking it too far for what this game is.
    And D&D didn't do its RL martial research before putting their game on the table. If they did, every melee weapon in the game would be dex to hit and str for damage. Instead I can build a full retard 6-8 dex melee with high strength and dominate anything that gets within threat range. In RL the equivalent of that person would likely cut themselves in half with a great weapon if they had poor coordination of movement.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #62
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And D&D didn't do its RL martial research before putting their game on the table. If they did, every melee weapon in the game would be dex to hit and str for damage. Instead I can build a full retard 6-8 dex melee with high strength and dominate anything that gets within threat range. In RL the equivalent of that person would likely cut themselves in half with a great weapon if they had poor coordination of movement.
    Yes they did actually, just not very well.
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  3. #63
    Community Member TheGuyYouKnow's Avatar
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    i tend to use my imagination instead of taking what is on screen to literally.
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  4. #64
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    This was not a troll thread. It was made into one by others.

    All the OP is about is 'to hit' and Concentration penalties that most epic toons would not even notice.

    Others decided to troll that. I thought it was mostly a joke at first, so I played along. I really don't think this is that big of a deal. Some good suggestions and comments came from it, but most of these pages are sickness. Shame. You all must be 15 years old and bored of facebook bullying or something. Wow. 5 pages on this non sense when I get up in the morning.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  5. #65
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    Anything that allows another character to negatively impact another player in-game will quickly be used by some for griefing.

  6. #66
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Anything that allows another character to negatively impact another player in-game will quickly be used by some for griefing.
    You mean like hires and arti/druid dogs?

  7. #67
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Anything that allows another character to negatively impact another player in-game will quickly be used by some for griefing.
    Cosmetic pets? Half Elves?
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The best armies in the world in their era were the best because of the fact that they understood how to do exactly what you are claiming cannot happen, fighting in close proximity to one and other. They used that proximity to augment each other, not hinder each other. The romans took 75k man armies into central Europe and defeated armies of several hundred thousand strong, whose best tactic was "spread out and charge". Many of the Chinese, Japanese, and Korean combat forms you see people practicing today are derived from old school military where it was well understood that if one person knew how to move like this, it wasn't that big a deal, but if a 100k soldier army all knew how to move in unison in close proximity to one and other it was a force to be reckoned with.

    Five guys may not even know each other or never met, but if they were trained in the same art, they can be within a foot of each other, and the only people who get to taste their steel are those who were foolish enough to attack them.
    Not bad. A good argument against. I can even agree with it. But to be right on top of each other. A foot would be fine. We are talking about a slight tap of a key to avoid the penalty. Just something to add to the realism.

    This is not about destroying the game. It is just for more oops. I missed. I am right on top of him. A tap of the A key or D key should solve it. Especially at lower levels. It is about more fun. Not less. No trolling here. There are minor adjustments like this for ranged attacks, glancing blows and moving. Just one more minor thing to adjust for, or not if your 'to hit' is high enough and concentration to just have to use quicken for. I would really like this, and I don't think it would be that big of a deal breaker for anyone.
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 10-17-2013 at 09:23 AM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  9. #69
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Yes they did actually, just not very well.
    Hardly. The entire attack of opportunity thing is a crock and can be exploited like all get out. Its not anything close to real life. Str to-hit was a major error, for the reason I explained above. AC is a huge oversimplification of anything real. Anything that gets through the protection of full plate for instance should fall under the "called shot" rules, as a specific area has to be struck.

    Even if you separate anything that can have an RL equivilent from things that cant, then try to compare things that can with their RL equivilent, it takes alot of suspension of disbelief to enjoy gaming. Its the same mindset youre in when watching some jet li movie where hes flying through the air and walking on water.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #70
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Hardly. The entire attack of opportunity thing is a crock and can be exploited like all get out. Its not anything close to real life. Str to-hit was a major error, for the reason I explained above. AC is a huge oversimplification of anything real. Anything that gets through the protection of full plate for instance should fall under the "called shot" rules, as a specific area has to be struck.

    Even if you separate anything that can have an RL equivilent from things that cant, then try to compare things that can with their RL equivilent, it takes alot of suspension of disbelief to enjoy gaming. Its the same mindset youre in when watching some jet li movie where hes flying through the air and walking on water.
    I am not arguing that it is an accurate representation of actual combat but that was indeed their intent. GG created D&D from playing war simulations which were used by Generals to plan actual battles. Basic D&D was an absolute mess with all melee weapons doing the same damage but daggers attacking twice as fast.
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  11. #71
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Anything that allows another character to negatively impact another player in-game will quickly be used by some for griefing.
    Late to the party...

    I can't refind it now, but there was a YouTube vid of a guy in WoW standing on a bridge on his mount. Every time someone would try to cross the bridge he'd kick with the mount, knocking them off the bridge. (Guess the bridge was over one of those 'bottomless' kind of gorges or something.)

    See also: Forced Emotes on LOTRO side. If something can affect others, someone is guaranteed to annoy others with it.
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  12. #72
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Not bad. A good argument against. I can even agree with it. But to be right on top of each other. A foot would be fine. We are talking about a slight tap of a key to avoid the penalty. Just something to add to the realism.

    This is not about destroying the game. It is just for more oops. I missed. I am right on top of him. A tap of the A key or D key should solve it. Especially at lower levels. It is about more fun. Not less. No trolling here. I would really like this, and I don't think it would be that big of a deal breaker for anyone.
    Youre asking for a penalty due to not having friendly collision turned on. What you really should be asking for is friendly collision to be turned on so that friendlies cant just move through eachother.

    In RL when three people are all (for games sake) "in the same 5 foot square" and they are trained combatants, they are protecting eachothers openings. When someone outside the formation stabs in at person 1, while person 1 parries and turns, the guy to their left cuts the opponent outside the formations arm off. Penalizing would not be the right thing to do. Having friendly collision turned on would be, if we were going for realism.
    Last edited by Chai; 10-17-2013 at 09:35 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #73
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I am not arguing that it is an accurate representation of actual combat but that was indeed their intent. GG created D&D from playing war simulations which were used by Generals to plan actual battles. Basic D&D was an absolute mess with all melee weapons doing the same damage but daggers attacking twice as fast.
    Yeap, then at some point GG figured out that the same amount of deadly force needed to be applied to a dagger as to an ax to do lethal damage, and the segmented combat system was born, and although it cant be 100% realistic, is more realistic than anything before or after it in all games carrying the name D&D.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Youre asking for a penalty due to not having friendly collision turned on. What you really should be asking for is friendly collision to be turned on so that friendlies cant just move through eachother.
    Bingo! We have a winner!

    I would say that this should be turned on in quests only, and not in public areas for obvious reasons.

    And so with collisions turned on, there would be no need for penalties at all.

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  15. #75
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Default F U whale and F U dolphin!

    We can jump out of the water like a Dolphin! Carry 40 weapons at once if we want. 1000 healing potions. Stand in Firewalls made by our party members. Quickly change out our gear in battle as a free action. And we can stand on top of another character.

    The uncanny valley has a long way to go. No Jumping out of water like a Dolphin. 4 weapons at most. 20 potions at most. Friendly firewalls and other aoe spells hurt us. Character pauses for 30 seconds to change out gear and cannot be accessed. (If you jump and forgot to put on your ff then you can't put it on in midair unless it is a ring. Standing on top of another character cannot be done. Nah I like the game the way it is.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    but it can be more like it's namesake easily
    Hey, anyone who has paid attention knows I'm at the forefront of making the game more like its namesake/bringing it back to the game it's supposed to be based on, but your ideas are really stupid places to start. The place to start is the combat system as a whole.

  17. #77
    Community Member BigSlugger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    -10 to hit for melee

    Concentration check for casters

    Just create a small aura type area for every character.

    More realistic.
    Yes, yes, and yes. I totally need more griefing tools.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSlugger View Post
    Yes, yes, and yes. I totally need more griefing tools.
    how did this thread get so many responses? iv posted **** only half as dumb as this that capped out at like 3 replys what hell.


    OH YEA... and perma-death too... no one should come back from being disintegrated... :P

  19. #79
    Community Member jonqrandom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    What you really should be asking for is friendly collision to be turned on so that friendlies cant just move through eachother.
    so much griefing would come from this. in public and in quest. from a "not requiring too much suspension of disbelief" point of view i agree with it, but from a practical point of view, i don't think the GMs are going to want to disperse groups of griefers kettling other players on a regular basis.
    http://captiongenerator.com/8795/ddo-u20changes
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    Think of it as trolling by not trolling.

  20. #80
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    Way cool.

    So if I decide to slice the neck of my party members with my B-sword, do I get a shot at their loot?

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