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Thread: Damaged Economy

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by offinthewoods View Post
    [...]

    Since there was no rollback, these items which can be easily warehoused will continue to appear, offsetting the hard work that I, like many others in a similar boat, have labored on.

    Nimsie of Sarlona
    Nimsie, nice to see you around and grouped with you last night.

    I agree with you, that exploit was bad and damaged the economy. But don't take it personally as money that you made. Take it as a game. I know it is not fun that some one ruined the economy for your character(s).

    I have been here from January 2006 and all the shinnies that my characters have accumulated over the years are not as shiny any more. The only thing we can do is be vigilant in reporting possible exploits to the authorities; and let them be the vengeance against the exploiters.

    Even money in the real world cannot be worth the same after 20 years. Money depreciate. Take 10,000 dollars from the 1990s. With 250,000 you can buy a good three bedroom house in the Suburbs west of Boston at that time. But now, the same house is selling for $500,000. The money is not the same. The government is printing more money while we speak and the dollars we hold on are no longer worth the same.

    Its better to think of what you invest in for your time. Of course, all the shinnies our characters made over the years can be the pride in itself since our characters obtained them legitimately; and no one can take away our accomplishments (TR past lives; maximum favor, etc.) regardless of the economy.

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    That's perfect, I would absolutely love that show if it weren't for the hideous laugh track.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    I would absolutely love that show if it weren't for the hideous laugh track.
    It's not a canned laugh track; the show is actually recorded in front of a live audience.

  4. #44
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    I agree with the OP. They need to roll back or delete. And while they are at it, can they please delete all of the random loot that is overpowered compared to stuff I worked long hours to grind out or craft?And roll back to 7th level everyone who used an XP stone. I worked many hard hours leveling my characters up. Also, delete the new named loot that overshadows the things I ransacked the **** out of quests to acquire.


    tl;dr; Ship sailed, get over it.

  5. #45
    Community Member Infiltraitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    I think you will find that Dupers will have duped any and every item that went into a auto-gather container.
    Augments (hello true blood, draconic soul gems)
    Augment Removers (store item)
    Hirelings both plat based and gold deal (store item)
    Cookies
    Scales and Relics
    Shroud Ingrediants (do cleansers/decosntructors stack? if so they were duped)
    Challenge Ingrediants
    Commendations
    Crafting Essences
    Motes winter/night
    spectral dragon hand in bits
    etc.

    If you assume that other people are as least as intelligent as you rather than less intellignet then you will probably do much better in life and in game.
    Luckily, the only dangerous item on that list wasn't duped in large quantities. Had the duper mass produced challenge items for vendoring, they would have had an infinite supply of platinum. Inflationary seigniorage would have been far deadlier to the player buying power. Instead, at least on my server, they duped items and sold them cheaply to the benefit of all. Had they been intelligent and evil, they would have bought out the plat house and then swamped the shard exchange. As is, they get a 7 out of 10. Not bad, but not enough to win my applause.
    Last edited by Infiltraitor; 10-17-2013 at 12:09 PM.

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  6. #46
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    astral shards boned the economy a long time ago... as much as i love(or loved and am only sticking around for time invested,im not sure anymore) this game.... i think the hate is starting to outweigh that love... a part of me wants to see some catastrophic event that wipes ddo from the face of the earth and puts a horrid black mark on the resumes of all of the people that currently work on the game,so that they will never work in the game biz ever again...

    i feel like i am that 2 headed goat from futurama that cant stop puking(or sh*ting,its a perspective thing). "what do u feed it?" "what comes out one end,we feed to the other." i keep eating sh*t and puking(sh*ting) it out,only to eat it again... when am i going to stop the cycle?! when!!!!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    It's not a canned laugh track; the show is actually recorded in front of a live audience.
    This for reals. Hell you can even go check it: http://the-big-bang-theory.com/tickets/


  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post
    Luckily, the only dangerous item on that list wasn't duped in large quantities. Had the duper mass produced challenge items for vendoring, they would have had an infinite supply of platinum.
    The only "actually dangerous" duped items were small, medium, and large eberron dragonshards (and, arguably, augments/GH relics/epic tokens). Being able to make "more plat" or "more loot" or whatever won't hurt the game long term. We've had players plat-cap their entire account before, and we've had players autocompleting raids before. But an unlimited supply of DDO store items (sp recovery, xp pots, augments) is worrisome. That takes away real money from Turbine, and might damage DDO's bottom line.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    It's not a canned laugh track; the show is actually recorded in front of a live audience.
    even shows filmed in front of a "live" audience uses a canned laugh track.
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  10. #50
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    Default I have to hand it to Nimsie

    I appreciate his guts and wisdom. If someone was upset at all about the "current state of the game's economy" and the value of precious rare items and all, and how everyone has been wronged by the vicious greedy exploiters and all, the only valid solution was a huge rollback. We all have read a lot of people upset for this reason or that reason recently on the forums. Most of us are reasonable to understand that we cannot cry injustice too much and too strongly because most of us understand that the only true solution would be a roll back of at least 3 weeks, anything less and the economy would still be damaged with tainted items here and there. Some people are are calling for perma-bans, but I don't see Turbine wanting to lose more players or decimating its staff of regression testers.

    So again, nice try Nimsie, but I don't see people jumping on the "three-week roll-back bus." Our economy was damaged but not bad enough to warrant perma-bans or a three-week roll-back. Let us remember that we are all in this together, just like a raid. Our game economy will bounce back just like we do in a raid. When someone dies in a raid, we all take a drink together. When someone someone screws up their job, we all re-group and try to stay alive while we are handing out raises. If someone rage quits over a raid failure, they are taking the game too seriously, if someone is willing to rage quit over some duping, it is time to take a break, get more sleep and spend more time in your real community, volunteer at a soup kitchen or something. When someone finds a bug we all complain together, when someone finds a bug that benefits the players we all by flawless scales at cheap prices together. Whether we die and drink, or succeed and drink, whether we find a bug and complain, or find a bug and sport new armor, you better be having fun. If you aren't having fun in this game, you better find a different guild, or find a different game.

    Let's focus on more cooperation and less competition. When I step into a raid, I want the other players to assuming I am trying to help out the team (guildies assume alcohol and my abilities will certainly get in the way of that) but when I play the game, I want to assume the developers are trying their best to make it fun and challenging. I log in to have some fun. Most quests (I can only think of two whitout) involve clicking on chests and collecting loot, but, that will never be my sole focus. I don't want to log in just for loot, I want to log in for fun and social interaction, and I don't care what everyone else has in their chest.
    Last edited by Nadalis; 10-17-2013 at 02:27 PM. Reason: I used the wrong word for "complain"

  11. #51
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    I frankly don’t buy in to all of the hysteria about the “game economy.” The issue will last about a year, a lot of these duped will fall off into obscurity, and changes to the loot system – which Turbine seems to do pretty frequently – will eventually invalidate mass quantities of those items.

    Believe it or not, the *financial* side of any free-exchange economy can usually take heavy hits, and recover much of the lost ground (much, but not all) fairly quickly, which is what this is all about. The genuine problem with economic downturns usually isn’t the financial side, but the production side. For example, if the NYSE has a HUGE fall-off, you’ll usually recover ground in less than a year. However, if an auto manufacturer shutters a plant, and cuts back production, it can take a couple of years before you begin to see a production rebound. This is evidenced by the relative quick turnaround after the 1929 crash, and a fairly rapid recovery of a 1930 crash, but a long, slow, painful recovery of industry during that same period of time.

    DDO doesn’t really have a “production side” of the game economy, unless that is the loot generated by quests. Even so, now that people have X amount of items of ill-gotten gain in their inventory, I don’t see them halting their questing activities. They will, instead, switch to a different set of quests to farm whatever item they now desire.

  12. #52
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    Turbine wont do anything about that. as you said it still out there. Who is coming out of this smelling like roses > Turbine peeps will still buy shards or whatever from store therefor turbine is still getting real world money from this exploit.
    All the complaining you do wont do any good as long as turbine makes money the world is great .



    Quote Originally Posted by offinthewoods View Post
    I have been playing DDO for 8 years on and off. Once I learned that the latest exploit was creating an influx of false items into the game, I took all my items off the AH and ASAH and logged in periodically (thinking a rollback was the only reasonable action). I waited patiently and several days passed. A warning was posted on login. Several more days passed. Finally, a fix was promoted, and the banning began with no rollback.

    I have spent the last several days looking at both the AH and ASAH only to see the duped items continue to appear. Now their prices are rising. I spent years, literally, accumulating character wealth in pp, scales, essences and more recently Astral Shards (basically real money). This vast accumulation of wealth has suddenly become devalued, but my true frustration lies in that fact that people continue to be able to profit from that last bug.

    To put it in real world terms, people have used 3D printers to create warehouses full of Lamborghini's and Maserati's. To confuse the law, they have traded and mailed and dispersed these goods to their know aliases thereby obfuscating the trail. They are now selling these openly for what amounts to real world cash (Astral Shards).

    Since there was no rollback, these items which can be easily warehoused will continue to appear, offsetting the hard work that I, like many others in a similar boat, have labored on.

    Nimsie of Sarlona

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by offinthewoods View Post
    I have been playing DDO for 8 years on and off. Once I learned that the latest exploit was creating an influx of false items into the game, I took all my items off the AH and ASAH and logged in periodically (thinking a rollback was the only reasonable action). I waited patiently and several days passed. A warning was posted on login. Several more days passed. Finally, a fix was promoted, and the banning began with no rollback.

    I have spent the last several days looking at both the AH and ASAH only to see the duped items continue to appear. Now their prices are rising. I spent years, literally, accumulating character wealth in pp, scales, essences and more recently Astral Shards (basically real money). This vast accumulation of wealth has suddenly become devalued, but my true frustration lies in that fact that people continue to be able to profit from that last bug.

    To put it in real world terms, people have used 3D printers to create warehouses full of Lamborghini's and Maserati's. To confuse the law, they have traded and mailed and dispersed these goods to their know aliases thereby obfuscating the trail. They are now selling these openly for what amounts to real world cash (Astral Shards).

    Since there was no rollback, these items which can be easily warehoused will continue to appear, offsetting the hard work that I, like many others in a similar boat, have labored on.

    Nimsie of Sarlona
    Just for clarity: If a market floods with a certain type of resource, the price of that resource goes down (not up). Because the scarcity of that resource is diminished and competition to profit from that resource is increased. Thus the scarcity of platinum is closer to that of the given resource. So (probably\possibly) what you are seeing are actually fewer duplicated items and the prices are again adjusting to the actual scarcity and demand of those items.

    I honestly don't know how things were handled by Turbine, if they could see transfers to a mule account or not but I would hypothesize that if they can pull chat and /tell logs then they can likely pull trade logs as well and track those items to the mules (if any). Of course there is always the possibility that a clever dev set up a monitor in advance to the "warning" with the expectation that if they claim to not know how extensive the problem was but are "looking into it" it would cause the offenders to panic and move their items en mass and thus trigger an alert. (i.e. "We're still investigating" might mean to someone "I've got time to stash this loot" and then BAM! Coin Lords swat team kicks in your door!)

    Lastly I'm not the type to assume the worst in people. Admittedly I'm very much a cynic but in reality most people are good and most true gamers know that cheating breaks the fragile "entertainment" value of a game. Any game I used "God mode" on was shelved a day or two later because with no challenge there was no fun. Same with using console to get items. If the items are legitimately in the game and I took away the incentive to go get them then I've eliminated an "entertainment opportunity". So I would wager that we're looking at very fringe group of players that used the exploit to any extent.

    It would kind of be interesting to know the actual numbers of confirmed offenders and if possible, number of offenders per server. Probably wont happen but it would be interesting. Cannith AH\ASAH seem to have changed very little as far as prices and quantity of what I consider would be the most likely "most duplicated" items (Mainly Larges and Flawless dragon scales?) but I might not be looking at\for the right stuff. Plus it's certainly gone "underground" by now if they didn't snag all the cheaters.

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    Wow I have over 40 toons on 1 account all real close if not capped on plat how is that dangerous to the economy , its called farming and trades not exploits but real work .. How can you peeps in these threads make so much concern for this .. Its a fake game , its not real.. things can be made , farmed , sold . this is how the game was intended since it came out 8 years ago




    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post
    Luckily, the only dangerous item on that list wasn't duped in large quantities. Had the duper mass produced challenge items for vendoring, they would have had an infinite supply of platinum. Inflationary seigniorage would have been far deadlier to the player buying power. Instead, at least on my server, they duped items and sold them cheaply to the benefit of all. Had they been intelligent and evil, they would have bought out the plat house and then swamped the shard exchange. As is, they get a 7 out of 10. Not bad, but not enough to win my applause.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by offinthewoods View Post
    I have been playing DDO for 8 years on and off. Once I learned that the latest exploit was creating an influx of false items into the game, I took all my items off the AH and ASAH and logged in periodically (thinking a rollback was the only reasonable action). I waited patiently and several days passed. A warning was posted on login. Several more days passed. Finally, a fix was promoted, and the banning began with no rollback.

    I have spent the last several days looking at both the AH and ASAH only to see the duped items continue to appear. Now their prices are rising. I spent years, literally, accumulating character wealth in pp, scales, essences and more recently Astral Shards (basically real money). This vast accumulation of wealth has suddenly become devalued, but my true frustration lies in that fact that people continue to be able to profit from that last bug.

    To put it in real world terms, people have used 3D printers to create warehouses full of Lamborghini's and Maserati's. To confuse the law, they have traded and mailed and dispersed these goods to their know aliases thereby obfuscating the trail. They are now selling these openly for what amounts to real world cash (Astral Shards).

    Since there was no rollback, these items which can be easily warehoused will continue to appear, offsetting the hard work that I, like many others in a similar boat, have labored on.

    Nimsie of Sarlona
    Could you be anymore selfish? You wanted Turbine to punish everybody (except apparently you) who didn't exploit by erasing any and all progress they made playing the game because you gambled on a rollback and lost? Had Turbine wiped my character xp, destiny xp, raid completions, first +5 tome and several other items I looted because of the actions of other people I would be ****ed off!

    This isn't a tycoon game. Maybe for you and some others it is all about the economy, but most of us play for character progression, and deleting that to protect your fictitious wealth would've been a far worse way to handle the situation. If you've really spent the better part of 8 years building a DDO economic portfolio, this should be no more than a bump in the road.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSomeQuestions View Post
    The only "actually dangerous" duped items were small, medium, and large eberron dragonshards (and, arguably, augments/GH relics/epic tokens). Being able to make "more plat" or "more loot" or whatever won't hurt the game long term. We've had players plat-cap their entire account before, and we've had players autocompleting raids before. But an unlimited supply of DDO store items (sp recovery, xp pots, augments) is worrisome. That takes away real money from Turbine, and might damage DDO's bottom line.
    If people are really worried, this should be the only reason why.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I give you a whole plate of fresh-baked cyber-brownies.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    If people are really worried, this should be the only reason why.
    Well, if it helps, I just gave Turbine $20 so I could grab a shiny new true globe. I doubt the sudden influx of shard exchanges at 30% commission will hurt Turbine very much. In fact, it would explain why Turbine would have a significant disincentive to do a rollback. They would have to part with all the real money they made off 30% of a heck of a lot of cloned goods.

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  19. #59
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    If people are really worried, this should be the only reason why.
    Afaik that vendor is gone from the game for now, which imho is for the best.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    That's perfect, I would absolutely love that show if it weren't for the hideous laugh track.
    But if I don't hear the laughter how am I going to know when the joke is!?

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