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  1. #81
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You can troll better than that, dig deep and post again.
    I wouldn't want to demoralize you =D
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  2. #82
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    1. Self-healing requires SOME DPS sacrifice. Spending a twist and slotting devotion, etc . . . it's something. Granted it's not a ton to sacrifice but saying you sacrifce nothing is just not true.

    2. Regarding capstones . . . I don't think you could go ridiculously enough on a capstone to compete with the power you get from splashing. it's just not possible.
    Yeap, the capstone would have to give you 6 levels of monk, 3 more feat slots, trapfinding, and UMD., and then 1.5x DPS on top of that.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #83
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Yeap, the capstone would have to give you 6 levels of monk, 3 more feat slots, trapfinding, and UMD., and then 1.5x DPS on top of that.
    As long as monk, fighter, and pally have these insanely awesome synergies pure-builds and barbs are relegated to the back of the buss. Doesn't matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

    Turbine didn't think this ENH-pass through enough, or this is intentional to sell more monks in the DDO store.

  4. #84
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    As long as monk, fighter, and pally have these insanely awesome synergies pure-builds and barbs are relegated to the back of the buss. Doesn't matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

    Turbine didn't think this ENH-pass through enough, or this is intentional to sell more monks in the DDO store.
    I think it's thought through very well!
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  5. #85
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    As long as monk, fighter, and pally have these insanely awesome synergies pure-builds and barbs are relegated to the back of the buss. Doesn't matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

    Turbine didn't think this ENH-pass through enough, or this is intentional to sell more monks in the DDO store.
    I think they DID think it through and its the latter of your claims that supports this. For years on end forumites complained that needing 6 levels of monk to be an optimal archer was poor game design, but alot of people gravitated toward it - so what did they do? They made it so that you need 6 levels of monk to be an optimal fighter as well. Centered eSOS, lol. They should just start selling cosmetic headslots with the trollface on them. Id buy one for sure.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #86
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Thats the entire reason it SHOULD be supported, due to the current environment of it being supported for everything else.

    In a regular D&D environment where a prepared wizard is uber and an unprepared wizard is a glass canon with no ammo, I wouldnt even think of advocating barbarians healing themselves while raged, but in this current environment, that ship already sailed, casters got self healing handed to them on a silver platter. Theres no reason barbarians cant heal while raged anymore when we look at the current environment as part of the issue.
    Looks like we found something to disagree with

    Instead of making something that isn't related to the core of the class and buffing barb up contributing to power creep making another class OP, a better fix would be to fix those 2 things I mentioned earlier and nerfing self healing casters. Ouch. Yeah, I said it. Let the nerd rage begin!

  7. #87
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I think they DID think it through and its the latter of your claims that supports this. For years on end forumites complained that needing 6 levels of monk to be an optimal archer was poor game design, but alot of people gravitated toward it - so what did they do? They made it so that you need 6 levels of monk to be an optimal fighter as well. Centered eSOS, lol.
    Of course you know a "barbs aren't gimps" thread will devolve into monk-bashing. If you need to fins me I'll be planning my monk with an 80 QP DC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    They should just start selling cosmetic headslots with the trollface on them. Id buy one for sure.
    This is the greatest idea in the history of DDO.

  8. #88
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Looks like we found something to disagree with

    Instead of making something that isn't related to the core of the class and buffing barb up contributing to power creep making another class OP, a better fix would be to fix those 2 things I mentioned earlier and nerfing self healing casters. Ouch. Yeah, I said it. Let the nerd rage begin!
    You should warn me before they do that, I need to strengthen my portfolio with some stock in pitchforks and popcorn conglomerites.

    I was on the bandwagon for casters not getting self healing handed to them while not having to make a sacrifice to get it some years ago. Many of the same folks who stood their ground on melee not being able to self heal without a sacrifice all of a sudden did not want to discuss the topic when I brought casters up. This was in the era where people farmed scrolls and seals on their casters in the first incarnation of epics.

    Its a 4.5 year old converstion though, and since them casters have healed themselves with little to no sacrifice whatsoever. WHen I see some players who knowingly play them talking about how heavy melee needs to make a sacrifice to get self healing I just grin knowingly.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #89
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Looks like we found something to disagree with

    Instead of making something that isn't related to the core of the class and buffing barb up contributing to power creep making another class OP, a better fix would be to fix those 2 things I mentioned earlier and nerfing self healing casters. Ouch. Yeah, I said it. Let the nerd rage begin!
    Will NEVER happen.

    focus on what is possible. The 'hjeal meh' days of DDO are over.

    Except for Soulfurnace, she should hjeal meh.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 10-17-2013 at 02:00 PM.

  10. #90
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Will NEVER happen.

    focus on what is possible. The 'hjeal meh' days of DDO are over.

    Except for Soulfurnace, she should hjeal meh.
    Correct. The devs dug their own hole on this one. Anytime casters have something changed they cry nerf and we have drama threads for weeks if its not in their favor. When melees ask for better self sufficiency, we are met with post after post by players saying if you want to self heal, take points from con and str and put them into cha and int, don't increase your DPS with rage, don't increase your DPS with frenzy, play a FOTM build or mix classes. And what sacrifice are these casters making?

  11. #91
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Correct. The devs dug their own hole on this one. Anytime casters have something changed they cry nerf and we have drama threads for weeks if its not in their favor. When melees ask for better self sufficiency, we are met with post after post by players saying if you want to self heal, take points from con and str and put them into cha and int, don't increase your DPS with rage, don't increase your DPS with frenzy, play a FOTM build or mix classes. And what sacrifice are these casters making?
    1. Casters are NOT OP compared to melees in the current game.

    2. Most melees have good slef-healing options. I'll say right now my ranger's is better than my PM's.

    3. Barbs are just screwed.

  12. #92
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Correct. The devs dug their own hole on this one. Anytime casters have something changed they cry nerf and we have drama threads for weeks if its not in their favor. When melees ask for better self sufficiency, we are met with post after post by players saying if you want to self heal, take points from con and str and put them into cha and int, don't increase your DPS with rage, don't increase your DPS with frenzy, play a FOTM build or mix classes. And what sacrifice are these casters making?
    Its funny when they eat eachother, and are complaining about OTHER CASTERS being able to pwn better than they can because they specced into shiradi on a first life after all the DC casters had to TR 6+ times. Thats when the "they didnt have to make as much sacrifice as I did" table gets flipped and the hilarity ensues.
    Last edited by Chai; 10-17-2013 at 02:57 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #93
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    A single change to barb would allow them to be perfectly fine. Allow them to be lawful good. This would let them multiclass with paladin for +20 all saves, and multiclass with monk for 3 free feats and evasion.

    Of course, a more reasonable change would be to simply lower saving throws in EE by 10, and having divine grace/might work like bonus spell points for sorcs/fvs. Pure paladins getting full bonuses, and splashes getting some. 2 Pali / 2 monk splash immune to everything with a saving throw, including knockdowns through divine might ... a tad overboard, and inflates DCs for challenge which shuts out non-monk/pali splashes.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-17-2013 at 04:11 PM.

  14. #94
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    1. Casters are NOT OP compared to melees in the current game.

    2. Most melees have good slef-healing options. I'll say right now my ranger's is better than my PM's.

    3. Barbs are just screwed.
    1. I don't know but high spell damage, useful buffs with high umd to scroll/wand anything they want, CC and push button self heals is pretty powerful to me. when you hear about players soloing EE, which do you hear more often melees or casters?

    2. most melees you mean ones that invest in umd and the free CSW spells that pallys and rangers can buff up to be more effective. otherwise, its pots for melees.

    3. yes in the self sufficiency department to be in line with other builds.

  15. #95
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    1. Casters are NOT OP compared to melees in the current game.

    2. Most melees have good slef-healing options. I'll say right now my ranger's is better than my PM's.

    3. Barbs are just screwed.
    Im referring to the claims made that sacrifice should be made to DPS in order to self heal, and citing arcane casters as not having to make a sacrifice in order to heal like a divine can. Seems like people dont mind this but the minute we bring up barbs being able to cast or scroll when raged all hell breaks loose.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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