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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Then they deserve to fail and go back in on hard or normal.
    agreed. heck, even my stoned first life 28 point hagglebard with craptastical gear breaks 300HP at 18 (barely... BUT STILL!)

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  2. #82
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    having the ability to kick the hire, and/or a checkbox on the LFM for the leader to disallow hires (suggested by phoenix-dabard i think) are good ideas
    Im not really against the ideas. Im against the devs tinkering with the lfm system again. Stuff always seems to go wrong.

    And i think they have bigger fish to fry

  3. #83
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Ah but you see when you wrote that it was extremely unlikely to have happen so much so that it would be unacceptable to believe without proof, what you ACTUALLY meant was that it never ever happened.
    Thank you for putting this up, in such honestly

    With that put out, allow me to convey some information to you in regards to what you just did. In the hope to inform, I want to explain to you that when you just take what people say and warp it into something other then what the person said, that is not conductive to mature or healthy discussion, in fact, this problem, or shall I say communication failure or breakdown as it were is so common, that it has it's very own name, it's called a "Straw-man", it's considered an informal logical fallacy and it results from when people pretty much just make up what their "opponent's" stand is and then argue against that. It is a common fallacy that people who can't have mature or polite discussion retort to, unfortunately and this when they do so, when "straw-men" enter the discussion, it quickly makes the discussion toxic.

    Now, On the other side of the spectrum of discussions, the healthy mature discussion, when someone says "Something is Unlikely the recipient of that takes that to mean that the person believes "That's unlikely" and continues to exchange points and counter-points functioning on that mindset.

    Well, as for the learn to read, well, there is no question that you can read the words themselves, you have just made it very clear that your openly willing to twist someones words to mean whatever you want them to mean. That means to me that I will be left to guess what you warped what I said into.

    Yah, no thanks, I'll try to stick to people that you know, can comprehend what the other person is saying, and when I say "I think that's unlikely" they have the mental ability to process that into "He thinks that's unlikely" and not have a few wires crossed someplace to think "he means that impossible!"

    Good day Sir.
    Last edited by Ungood; 10-17-2013 at 08:20 AM. Reason: Arrrrggghhhh [Size!]

  4. #84
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    1 - I agree with op, leaders should be able to boot hires.
    2 - Ungood is a troll.
    3 - I see "no hires" lfms all the time on Thelanis.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    i just see how someone could easily hold the opinion that they OP might have been embellishing for the sake of the story.
    Oh obviously. It's not really the content of what he's said that's causing people to make fun of him - it's the delivery of the content that is resulting in him being mocked. After all, you two have "effectively" said very similar things yet nobodies mocking you. This of course is because you didn't enter this thread claiming the OP was a liar, insulting them and many others while comically misusing terms in an attempt to sound superior, only to later satire yourself almost perfectly.

    Ungood is just proving to be the "Bill O'reilly" of the DDO forums. If you don't know who that is just youtube it - TONS of people like to make fun of that guy. It's just a cheap laugh.

    Ungood not quite getting the point
    I'm mocking you Ungood. To put it more bluntly, I'm using the same argumentative techniques that you have employed in order to show how silly you've been in this thread to provide a good chuckle for those reading who happen to care for one.

    I'm effectively turning up the light on your trolling for the sake of laughing at the comedy of it. Now, in a few more posts I'll start playing the victim card to round out our little engagement and call it a day.

    This way we all get a laugh. You get to troll and feel superior for "reasons" and we get to laugh at the farce.

    \/ (to Ungood below) *sigh* If you're going to pretend to be "smart" and to tell people to "learn to read" you should at least be able to tell when someone isn't arguing "your" point. I never argued with you or anyone on the merits of the OP. I mocked and made fun of you without commenting on the OP. I have never "argued against my point" as my point is only that you are a dillhole. Something that I've been very consistent on.
    Last edited by Xianio; 10-17-2013 at 09:58 AM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Oh obviously. It's not really the content of what he's said that's causing people to make fun of him - it's the delivery of the content that is resulting in him being mocked. After all, you two have "effectively" said very similar things yet nobodies mocking you. This of course is because you didn't enter this thread claiming the OP was a liar, insulting them and many others while comically misusing terms in an attempt to sound superior, only to later satire yourself almost perfectly.

    Ungood is just proving to be the "Bill O'reilly" of the DDO forums. If you don't know who that is just youtube it - TONS of people like to make fun of that guy. It's just a cheap laugh.

    lol. by all means, mock me too. afterall, i have also doubted the veracity of the OP's claims... i've just done so in a more diplomatic fashion.

    meh. thread has gone on too long as it is... with not much to show for it. bored now.

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  7. #87
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    I'm mocking you Ungood. To put it more bluntly, I'm using the same argumentative techniques that you have employed in order to show how silly you've been in this thread to provide a good chuckle for those reading who happen to care for one.
    LOL, So, you think are. But hey you admitted to arguing against what you already know is true. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Oh obviously. It's not really the content of what he's said that's causing people to make fun of him - it's the delivery of the content that is resulting in him being mocked. After all, you two have "effectively" said very similar things yet nobodies mocking you.
    Last edited by Ungood; 10-17-2013 at 08:33 AM.

  8. #88
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I could get behind a lfm check box or something to that affect that prevented hires from being summoned, but what happens when the party changes their mind half way through the quest? The party leader able to uncheck the box to summon hires?

    Another thing to think about are summons. I thought summons and Arty dogs were coded similarly to hires. Imagine the rage if a check box borked summons.

    I still won't sign party leaders having the power to boot hires.

  9. #89
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    lol. by all means, mock me too. afterall, i have also doubted the veracity of the OP's claims
    I wouldn't mock someone for having a difference of opinion. That's rude and makes me the ****. The OP might very well have been exaggerating, how could we know? Like I said, it's not the content of Ungood's arguments - it's the delivery.

    It's why it's funny to mock him while it would be rude to mock you. You don't mock the guy politely saying "I'm sorry, but I doubt the veracity of your claims as I have a significant amount of experience in this area and have yet to encounter what you describe." You mock the guy saying, "F you! You're a liar you liar! How dare you lie, prove it or gtfo. I refuse to accept other individuals claiming the same they're liars too! Pics or it didn't happen!"

    That guy is comedy gold.

    \/ Your need to make us somehow "understand" each other doesn't make my mocking of you any less spot on, nor does it allow you to save face.
    Last edited by Xianio; 10-17-2013 at 08:50 AM.

  10. #90
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I could get behind a lfm check box or something to that affect that prevented hires from being summoned, but what happens when the party changes their mind half way through the quest? The party leader able to uncheck the box to summon hires?

    Another thing to think about are summons. I thought summons and Arty dogs were coded similarly to hires. Imagine the rage if a check box borked summons.

    I still won't sign party leaders having the power to boot hires.
    Arti Dogs don't take up the same kind of slot in the party UI, that means their affect as far as the party goes is very different then how a Hire works, also, you can have a dog/pet on a raid but not a hire, so the code for such a feature is in the game already.

  11. #91
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    I wouldn't mock someone for having a difference of opinion. That's rude and makes me the ****. The OP might very well have been exaggerating, how could we know?
    Wow, we agree.

  12. #92
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I could get behind a lfm check box or something to that affect that prevented hires from being summoned, but what happens when the party changes their mind half way through the quest? The party leader able to uncheck the box to summon hires?

    Another thing to think about are summons. I thought summons and Arty dogs were coded similarly to hires. Imagine the rage if a check box borked summons.

    I still won't sign party leaders having the power to boot hires.
    Agreed. Where does it end? At some point players need to accept the risk that comes with playing with strangers

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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    There is no reading fail on my part, to be blunt, I don't believe they said in the LFM panel "No Hires", I believe they put up BYOH and left it at that.
    Irregardless, when the leader asks a party member to get rid of the hire because a player wants to join, then the hire should be dropped. period.
    Party member hires should in no way hold precidence over a leader trying to invite real players to join a party

    I believe the inability of the leader to remove hires from their own party when a player fails to do so is a failing of the DDO quest mechanic.
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  14. #94
    Community Member jonqrandom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I never said they didn't happen at all, and at no point was my argument based on "they don't exist"

    Where do you people get this stuff?
    pardon me, you didn't actually come right out and state that they didn't exist. now, i'm not sure that i or many other people believe you mean "very rare" instead of "non-existent" by "fertile mule", but if that's what you're claiming i'll live with that.

    so, if you accept that "no hires" LFMs exist, then your only reason for assuming that the OP is lying is that they're rare?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Trying to have discussions on this forum is like trying to argue with someone on an acid trip where they just make up what other people say and respond to that no matter how ignorant or foolish they look or sound doing so. No wonder I can't have discussions or make points with people like you. Maybe today you will learn how to read what people actually write.

    I don't think you will, in fact, I don't think you ever will, and as much as I may one day like to be, I don't believe I will ever be proven wrong either by the likes of you.

    TL-DR: If you can't respond to what I have actually said, stop showing your stupidity by quoting me and responding to some made up straw-man of yours.
    dear me, it seems i was in error about your opinion regarding the existence of "no hires" LFMs. how remiss of me.

    so tell me, how is it better that your outspoken belief that the OP is lying is based only on a likelyhood rather than a perceived certainty?
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    And this is why I believe the OP just put up a BYOH-IP and is simply embellishing what they put in the LFM for the sake of their side of the discussion.
    Please list your in game characters.

    Cheers

  16. #96
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonqrandom View Post
    so, if you accept that "no hires" LFMs exist, then your only reason for assuming that the OP is lying is that they're rare?
    Thats not why i assumed hes lying. I figured the op lied because he didnt want his thread derailed. He wanted to focus on the hireling mechanic, not the art of posting lfms and at what point its too late to recall/reform

    Do i KNOW hes lying? No. But i assume he is because it makes sense and i probably would have too

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Thats not why i assumed hes lying. I figured the op lied because he didnt want his thread derailed. He wanted to focus on the hireling mechanic, not the art of posting lfms and at what point its too late to recall/reform

    Do i KNOW hes lying? No. But i assume he is because it makes sense and i probably would have too
    ^^ this here is a good example of the Mind Projection fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_Projection_Fallacy

    But then again it is obvious that both sides of the argument appear not to respect each other, so "moar" fallacies please.

  18. #98
    Community Member jonqrandom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Thats not why i assumed hes lying. I figured the op lied because he didnt want his thread derailed. He wanted to focus on the hireling mechanic, not the art of posting lfms and at what point its too late to recall/reform

    Do i KNOW hes lying? No. But i assume he is because it makes sense and i probably would have too
    hey, that's personal choice (and, uhhmm, interesting. thanks for sharing that).

    you know what you didn't do? you didn't pop up on the first page of the thread and call the OP a "total jerk" and accuse them of lots of "butt hurt" and needing to "grow some hair on your chest" in a post that has since disappeared but is quoted here (gee, i wonder why it vanished).

    it's one thing to have an opinion, and express it. it's another to act out and lay into another individual on the basis of that opinion, especially when that opinion is formed with no apparent evidence.
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  19. #99
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    ^^ this here is a good example of the Mind Projection fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_Projection_Fallacy

    But then again it is obvious that both sides of the argument appear not to respect each other, so "moar" fallacies please.
    Mind projection fallacy is my friend. We figure out the world together. Right now its telling me you're a really cool guy

  20. #100
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonqrandom View Post
    pardon me, you didn't actually come right out and state that they didn't exist. now, i'm not sure that i or many other people believe you mean "very rare" instead of "non-existent" by "fertile mule", but if that's what you're claiming i'll live with that.
    "Fertile Mule" or "When Mules Foal", is just a fancy way to say "Once in a Blue Moon" or other such phrasing to mean very rare.

    so, if you accept that "no hires" LFMs exist, then your only reason for assuming that the OP is lying is that they're rare?
    It was a matter of deduction, I found it very nonplussing that they would claim that they put "No Hires" in the LFM but in their second example, they were obviously OK with Hire for the start of the quest, and only had an issue once someone else wanted to join, so that leads me to believe that there was not any real "No Hire" directly stated in the LFM.

    Now, here is a good question, What is your motive to believe them beyond they said so, they could be lying or embellishing, and you have no way to know, so what is your motive to believe they are in fact telling the truth?

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