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  1. #1
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    Default How much worse are long swords compared to scimitars?

    I've played the game on and off since F2P launched and never got a character past level 4 until my most recent attempt where I tried a Cleric and everything seemed to click. I plan on sticking with this guy for awhile and spent awhile planning out a future build for him for when/if I ever TR him and have more than 28 attribute points to work with. I've got most of the specifics figured out, but I've been wondering about weapon selection.

    I know people generally agree that weapons with higher crit ranges like scimitars tend to be preferred over weapons like longs words, but how pronounced is that advantage? My Cleric will be a human, so it becomes an issue of whether it'd be better to use a long sword and benefit from the Righteous Weapons enhancement line (only up to +4, I won't be going all the way to the top of the Warpriest tree), or to go with scimitars and miss out on the enhancement bonuses. I don't really know how damage scales later on in the game, so I'm not sure if the higher crit rate outweighs the +4 bonus. Or even if weapon selection later on means different weapon types favor certain classes.


    As a side note, I considered avoiding the issue all together and making my character an Elf but I ultimately decided that the higher damage wouldn't be worth losing the free feat, better stat selection for enhancement boosts, higher healing amplification, and the action boosts.

  2. #2
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    The issue with longswords in my opinion is not their damage and crit, but the lack of quality named ones. There isn't very many decent named longswords.

    As for scimitars on a cleric another option is to Helf.

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    They're worse but not that much worse, timeblade, mourneload longswords, oathblade are all decent with tinah in the off hand for the prowess bonus. Scimi's are better so are kopeshes but longswords can work.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odlus View Post
    I know people generally agree that weapons with higher crit ranges like scimitars tend to be preferred over weapons like longs words, but how pronounced is that advantage? My Cleric will be a human, so it becomes an issue of whether it'd be better to use a long sword and benefit from the Righteous Weapons enhancement line (only up to +4, I won't be going all the way to the top of the Warpriest tree), or to go with scimitars and miss out on the enhancement bonuses. I don't really know how damage scales later on in the game, so I'm not sure if the higher crit rate outweighs the +4 bonus.
    Assuming you hit on a 2, you get 19 "units" of damage out of 20 attacks, + 1 extra unit per critical threat, per critical multiplier (above x1). So 18-20 threat gives 3 extra sets of damage in those 20 attacks for a x2 multiplier weapon, or 6 extra for a x3 multiplier weapon.
    e.g. Scimi (18-20 threat, x2 multiplier) does 22 units of damage per 20 swings (19+3)
    Longsword does (19-20 threat, x2 multipier) does 21 units per 20 swings (19+2)
    In contrast a Gaxe (20/x3) does 22 units (19+3)
    Khopesh, which has a 19-20 threat AND a x3 multipier comes out with 23 units of damage.
    More powerful named weapons have different more potent crit profiles... so later you will be looking at a range of possibilities.

    A minor consideration is weapon base damage: D6 ona scimi and D8 on a longsword. works out to about 1 per swing in favour of the longsword.

    But then consider each unit of damage includes...

    • The weapon bonus (up to +8 or more at Epic levels)
    • Your str bonus (or other stat if you're being all enhancey, and x1.5 for 2-handers)
    • +5 or more from Power Attack Feat
    • Various other damage bonuses (e.g. up to +8 (or more?) from Deadly items, + several from various enhancements... etc.)
    • Bursting weapon effects on the crit hits (more for scimi)
    • etc.


    Those extra "units" of damage become more and more pronounced the more powerful you become.

    There might be other considerations that sway your weapon choice (and be aware that currently "to-hit" is not a major consideration), but in terms of straight weapon damage a wide crit range is good, a high multiplier is good, and some of both is better still... for pure damage.

    Ultimately, if you put together a good toon, you'll be able to hit your enemies with a cursed club and still rock the quest. Play it out and see what you like best.

    H
    AUREON/ KEEPER 2006-2009 | CANNITH 2010 -
    Anaplian, Csimian, Tengram, Hackworth, Memenah, Helekye, Nabberfleish
    Brotherhood of the Wolf

  5. #5
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Other things to keep in mind with a wp especially is you can splash 2 monk and pick up whirling steel strike, this lets you stay centered with a longsword and pick up a dance of flowers for an extra 1.5w. You can't do this with a scimi.

  6. #6
    Community Member Arianka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Other things to keep in mind with a wp especially is you can splash 2 monk and pick up whirling steel strike, this lets you stay centered with a longsword and pick up a dance of flowers for an extra 1.5w. You can't do this with a scimi.
    8 levels of FTR and kensai says you can

  7. #7
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arianka View Post
    8 levels of FTR and kensai says you can
    Not if you want mass heal and be able to raid heal as well.

  8. #8
    Community Member Arianka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Not if you want mass heal and be able to raid heal as well.
    true

  9. #9

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    One very real advantage for (essentially) new players to choose longswords is because scimitars are better. This means that all the really good lootgen longswords on the ah will generally be way cheaper than the good scimitars. The net result is that longswords will be very competitive for a new player on a tight budget.

  10. #10
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    It seems like the consensus is that it won't be a terribly huge deal either way, which is nice to hear.

    The Half Elf suggestion was something I hadn't thought of and, looking at it in the planner it seems like a pretty nice compromise. I'd still lose the free feat, but I'd keep most of the human advantages, get to use Scimitars as my deity's favored weapon, and gain my choice of an extra goodie like sneak attack dice or arcane scroll use. I don't have Half Elves available to me at the moment and it's unlikely that that I'd pay to unlock them over getting an adventure pack or expansion for awhile (unless I could do something like become a VIP for a month, reincarnate into a Half Elf, and be able to play like that even after the subscription ends), but it's definitely worth keeping in mind.

    Similar thing with the Monk. It looks like a really interesting class that also has a lot of multi-classing potential, but I don't know when/if I'll ever pick it up

    And, yeah. While I do like to fit as much damage into a build as I reasonably can, I don't plan on sacrificing so much that I lose my ability to be a good healer. Level 9 spells feels like a must for me.


    So since it looks like weapon selection won't be a big deal in the end, I'll most likely just stick with a long sword wielding human and take advantage of the favored weapon boosts (seems like a shame to ignore such a large chunk of an enhancement tree). Thanks for all of the replies, I appreciate it

  11. #11

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    I've just been browsing around the named longswords, and one theme seems pretty consistent: either have high umd or be a lawful alignment. I saw at least 3 very nice named longswords with high UMD: Lawful checks on them.

    There are two nice ones from Threnal, but don't buy Threnal. (Retribution and Threnalian War Blade.)

    For early levels I'm not seeing much better than Xoriat Forged Blade, from a F2P quest. Gotta love 2d5 base damage, plus you can slot devotion in the red slot. It's Bind-on-Equip, meaning you might be able to find one for cheap on the AH.

    Also F2P, the Nightforge Avenger Blade is okay. Red slots on a battle cleric's weapon are awesome for slotting devotion.

    Oh, by the way, if you plan on using a shield, the clear best cleric shield for leveling, hands down, is Dalorent's Seal. While it's technically Necropolis 3 loot, you don't need to own necro 3 to get it. You get it by turning in scarabs from necro 3 quests, and those scarabs are unbound and often found on the ah for pretty cheap.

  12. #12
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odlus View Post

    So since it looks like weapon selection won't be a big deal in the end, I'll most likely just stick with a long sword wielding human and take advantage of the favored weapon boosts (seems like a shame to ignore such a large chunk of an enhancement tree). Thanks for all of the replies, I appreciate it
    Since someone commented that their aren't many good named long swords out there I'd like to direct your attention to:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Retribution


    See also:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Watcher%27s_Blade

    Oh here you go:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Long_Swords

  13. #13
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    I really like Half-Elf w/ Fighter Dilettante for a Caster Cleric who's proficient in any martial weapon. It's nice to rock a Carnifex, Antique Greataxe, or other nice two-hander while you've got the mob on his rear end with a well-timed Command or stunned with a Soundburst

    (Maybe someday they'll fix [sic] Warpriest to include the appropriate two-handed weapons in the various "favored weapon" categories)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  14. #14
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    That's a big negative on the VIP for a month to unlock half elevensessesss.
    When you lost VIP that toon then gets locked down untill you get access either through VIP or purchase.

    Good news is if you just buy points with the 12.99 you would have spent going VIP for a single month it should probably be enough to purchase half elevesessesss out right.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro12 View Post
    That's a big negative on the VIP for a month to unlock half elevensessesss.
    When you lost VIP that toon then gets locked down untill you get access either through VIP or purchase.
    Very good to know. Some games lock you out of your characters that use "VIP" unlocks when your subscription ends while others let you keep playing the character, really helps to know that this does the former.


    I'm thinking of taking a couple levels of Paladin with my character, so needing a lawful alignment for weapons won't be an issue. And thanks for the links, I have them bookmarked.

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