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  1. #41
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    This theme has been cropping up more and more often since U9. Seems to me a disproportionate amount of builds rely on the proc rate of some effect or other, and then those builds are hooped when the inevitable proc-rate-nerf occurs. Add to that the bizarre stacking/non-stacking changes, and it just seems like an endless FotM treadmill.

    I just don't ever bother with FoS'd effects. Just build for straight damage and effects be damned. Keeps my build much more stable in the long term without the need to keep chasing new loot and discarding old.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  2. #42
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    This theme has been cropping up more and more often since U9. Seems to me a disproportionate amount of builds rely on the proc rate of some effect or other, and then those builds are hooped when the inevitable proc-rate-nerf occurs. Add to that the bizarre stacking/non-stacking changes, and it just seems like an endless FotM treadmill.

    I just don't ever bother with FoS'd effects. Just build for straight damage and effects be damned. Keeps my build much more stable in the long term without the need to keep chasing new loot and discarding old.
    If you chose mediocrity you can never be nerfed.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    I just don't ever bother with FoS'd effects. Just build for straight damage and effects be damned. Keeps my build much more stable in the long term without the need to keep chasing new loot and discarding old.
    I think it is a loss for the game when any interesting effect is ALWAYS nerfed since straight DPS must be king, no matter what.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  4. #44
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    This theme has been cropping up more and more often since U9. Seems to me a disproportionate amount of builds rely on the proc rate of some effect or other, and then those builds are hooped when the inevitable proc-rate-nerf occurs. Add to that the bizarre stacking/non-stacking changes, and it just seems like an endless FotM treadmill.

    I just don't ever bother with FoS'd effects. Just build for straight damage and effects be damned. Keeps my build much more stable in the long term without the need to keep chasing new loot and discarding old.
    But if straight damage is the only thing that works consistantly, then we are right back to old epics with blanket immunities and arbitrary nerfs of things people built and geared for.

    Now put this mob into helpless for me so I can autocrit and,.....wait, that got nerfed too, damn!!!
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #45
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    I think it is a loss for the game when any interesting effect is ALWAYS nerfed since straight DPS must be king, no matter what.
    Yup. Straight DPS being the only option makes the game smaller.

  6. #46
    Community Member Elaril's Avatar
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    This is actually one of the more humorous nerf sagas in the game's history.

    This effect was originally available only on the Dreamspitter, and quite a bit later on the Staff of the Shadow. Originally, it was an on crit enhancement. Way back when, when held mobs offered automatic criticals, it was rightly determined to be overpowered, and given an on crit chance to proc. The description was changed accordingly.

    When held mobs were changed to no longer offer automatic criticals, there was some discussion about the effect and leaving it as a chance proc was determined to be too large a nerf to thief acrobat builds, so it was reverted to its original behavior. The description was never reverted, however.

    Then, despite protests of its OPness, the effect was implemented on higher critical weapons. Fortunately, it didn't function as it should on challenge weapons, but it did on Nightmare and the Sacrificial Dagger, neither of which was terribly overpowered.

    Now, it seems someone has made it their pet project to bring the challenge weapons in line with the named options and, instead of reviewing the game's history, decided that the description is correct in this case and is nerfing in accordance with that assumption.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaril View Post
    This is actually one of the more humorous nerf sagas in the game's history.

    This effect was originally available only on the Dreamspitter, and quite a bit later on the Staff of the Shadow. Originally, it was an on crit enhancement. Way back when, when held mobs offered automatic criticals, it was rightly determined to be overpowered, and given an on crit chance to proc. The description was changed accordingly.

    When held mobs were changed to no longer offer automatic criticals, there was some discussion about the effect and leaving it as a chance proc was determined to be too large a nerf to thief acrobat builds, so it was reverted to its original behavior. The description was never reverted, however.

    Then, despite protests of its OPness, the effect was implemented on higher critical weapons. Fortunately, it didn't function as it should on challenge weapons, but it did on Nightmare and the Sacrificial Dagger, neither of which was terribly overpowered.

    Now, it seems someone has made it their pet project to bring the challenge weapons in line with the named options and, instead of reviewing the game's history, decided that the description is correct in this case and is nerfing in accordance with that assumption.

    +1
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaril View Post
    This is actually one of the more humorous nerf sagas in the game's history.

    This effect was originally available only on the Dreamspitter, and quite a bit later on the Staff of the Shadow. Originally, it was an on crit enhancement. Way back when, when held mobs offered automatic criticals, it was rightly determined to be overpowered, and given an on crit chance to proc. The description was changed accordingly.

    When held mobs were changed to no longer offer automatic criticals, there was some discussion about the effect and leaving it as a chance proc was determined to be too large a nerf to thief acrobat builds, so it was reverted to its original behavior. The description was never reverted, however.

    Then, despite protests of its OPness, the effect was implemented on higher critical weapons. Fortunately, it didn't function as it should on challenge weapons, but it did on Nightmare and the Sacrificial Dagger, neither of which was terribly overpowered.

    Now, it seems someone has made it their pet project to bring the challenge weapons in line with the named options and, instead of reviewing the game's history, decided that the description is correct in this case and is nerfing in accordance with that assumption.
    Well that guy is freaking stupid and should be corralled by management. Its sad to think of the lack of brain power making these changes.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaril View Post
    This is actually one of the more humorous nerf sagas in the game's history.

    This effect was originally available only on the Dreamspitter, and quite a bit later on the Staff of the Shadow. Originally, it was an on crit enhancement. Way back when, when held mobs offered automatic criticals, it was rightly determined to be overpowered, and given an on crit chance to proc. The description was changed accordingly.

    When held mobs were changed to no longer offer automatic criticals, there was some discussion about the effect and leaving it as a chance proc was determined to be too large a nerf to thief acrobat builds, so it was reverted to its original behavior. The description was never reverted, however.

    Then, despite protests of its OPness, the effect was implemented on higher critical weapons. Fortunately, it didn't function as it should on challenge weapons, but it did on Nightmare and the Sacrificial Dagger, neither of which was terribly overpowered.

    Now, it seems someone has made it their pet project to bring the challenge weapons in line with the named options and, instead of reviewing the game's history, decided that the description is correct in this case and is nerfing in accordance with that assumption.
    Devs read this.
    Instead of nerfing what we have, why dont you(turbine) make better loot?
    They just go easy way and nerf it.

  10. #50
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaril View Post
    This is actually one of the more humorous nerf sagas in the game's history.

    This effect was originally available only on the Dreamspitter, and quite a bit later on the Staff of the Shadow. Originally, it was an on crit enhancement. Way back when, when held mobs offered automatic criticals, it was rightly determined to be overpowered, and given an on crit chance to proc. The description was changed accordingly.

    When held mobs were changed to no longer offer automatic criticals, there was some discussion about the effect and leaving it as a chance proc was determined to be too large a nerf to thief acrobat builds, so it was reverted to its original behavior. The description was never reverted, however.

    Then, despite protests of its OPness, the effect was implemented on higher critical weapons. Fortunately, it didn't function as it should on challenge weapons, but it did on Nightmare and the Sacrificial Dagger, neither of which was terribly overpowered.

    Now, it seems someone has made it their pet project to bring the challenge weapons in line with the named options and, instead of reviewing the game's history, decided that the description is correct in this case and is nerfing in accordance with that assumption.

    Exactly, say Turbine isn't it a good thing that your customers knows your product better then you do.

    Btw, those named items aren't overpowered at all and changing it makes rogues stand in the dust once again.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
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  11. #51
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Actually I know why they are changing it now.
    Remember when you had only Terror and Tharaask Wraps with nightmare property?
    Then when motu came out turbine thought giving random weapons that property was good idea, they gave it to all weapons, no matter their crit range, when they realized how good it is turbine nerfed it all because of problem turbine caused in the first place.
    Now turbine is doing the same thing.
    They added augment in Mabar that you can put on any weapon with that slot and that weapon will have same life stealing property as Nightmare, so again turbine doing the same thing they did year ago and nerfing all weapons with life stealing just like they did with nightmares effect.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Actually I know why they are changing it now.
    Remember when you had only Terror and Tharaask Wraps with nightmare property?
    Then when motu came out turbine thought giving random weapons that property was good idea, they gave it to all weapons, no matter their crit range, when they realized how good it is turbine nerfed it all because of problem turbine caused in the first place.
    Now turbine is doing the same thing.
    They added augment in Mabar that you can put on any weapon with that slot and that weapon will have same life stealing property as Nightmare, so again turbine doing the same thing they did year ago and nerfing all weapons with life stealing just like they did with nightmares effect.
    Yes. It's interesting that they've learned nothing at all from the last time. Again.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  13. #53
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Yes. It's interesting that they've learned nothing at all from the last time. Again.
    interesting but not surprising.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    interesting but not surprising.
    I agree, sadly it is not surprising at all.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  15. #55
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    That's an odd split, why not 12 fighter 6 monk 2 pally and twist turn undead? Six monk will get you shadowfade for more incorp.
    he went 4 pally for empowered healing spell for cocoon, i would prob rather go 10 fighter 6 monk 4 pally then but you lose powersurge . 12/6/2 could work if you use heal scrolls instead I guess.


    I would rather use blilizards instead of duel chao's blades, not everything is lawful, in fact a lot now are not, like drow which are chaotic. Yes the vamparism is really nice with high heal amp..............but on harder difficulties where you lose hp's in big chunks, if anything hits you............its definately somethign I wouldn't rely on, its nice to help you maybe use up less of your resources during questing. Plus that extra stuff ppr from planar focus is nice.

    You do save a feat using bilizardes instead of khopeshes. Or you could go totally crazy i know.......and use duel morns warhammers in LD with pulverizer?

    And I guess now if the shards are appearing on 20ths its not such a hard farm to get the stuff for epic chao's blades, well not as hard as it use to be......as someone who has one I know it could take months, even years to get what you wanted out of the sands epiced.



    yeah its like they defeat the purpose of the whole thiing anyway, I would rather they leave it as it is, only found on nightmare, and eveningstar weapons, than if they bring in this augment then turn around and nerf it. Lol was funny actually seeing people duelweild bastard swords..........
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 10-16-2013 at 07:37 PM.

  16. #56
    Founder Dorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaril View Post
    This is actually one of the more humorous nerf sagas in the game's history.

    This effect was originally available only on the Dreamspitter, and quite a bit later on the Staff of the Shadow. Originally, it was an on crit enhancement. Way back when, when held mobs offered automatic criticals, it was rightly determined to be overpowered, and given an on crit chance to proc. The description was changed accordingly.

    When held mobs were changed to no longer offer automatic criticals, there was some discussion about the effect and leaving it as a chance proc was determined to be too large a nerf to thief acrobat builds, so it was reverted to its original behavior. The description was never reverted, however.

    Then, despite protests of its OPness, the effect was implemented on higher critical weapons. Fortunately, it didn't function as it should on challenge weapons, but it did on Nightmare and the Sacrificial Dagger, neither of which was terribly overpowered.

    Now, it seems someone has made it their pet project to bring the challenge weapons in line with the named options and, instead of reviewing the game's history, decided that the description is correct in this case and is nerfing in accordance with that assumption.
    +1
    Dorian

  17. #57
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Yup. Straight DPS being the only option makes the game smaller.
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not above using interesting effects. Interesting effects are interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    interesting but not surprising.
    But ^this is why I don't BUILD for interesting effects. Nor farm FotM gear/weaps/EDs. I'm not a fan of wasting playtime investing in systems that will surely be nerfed long before I get any return on investment. And since Turb is notorious for doing exactly that (i.e. nerfing interesting effects with a hammer instead of a scalpel), I end up much happier in the long run with a stable build. As a casual player, which I feel the majority of the community are, I end up much happier in the long run. I don't feel it's 'mediocre'. To me it's more q-point, as opposed to min/max.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  18. #58
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not above using interesting effects. Interesting effects are interesting.



    .
    I just loved that whooo whooo sound of the level drain proccing

  19. #59
    Community Member Glad's Avatar
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    Funny how they have time to nerf proc rate but fix prob that mobs hit for a same amount after 20 neg lvls is not important, with this unnecessarily nerf i know they lost they mind, melee casters and now this i mean ***? Is main guy really so drunk and plays my farmwille or what?
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    So what? If one piece of gear in an MMO is significantly stronger than other relevant gear, expect it to be nerfed eventually. With Terror you could kill as much as the highest DPS players even when playing on an 8 str toon. Nightmare is so much better than other weapons vs EE trash that you just have to expect a nerf.
    terror was useless in EE, and about 50% working in EH. It was nowhere close to OP as it needed two saves that weren't very high.

    Only OP thing about nightmares property was 15-20 crit range weapons using it :P

    Also I think I may have a trashgen khope from pre-U19 that could mayhaps outclass drow khope (was using barrage) something like +6 desert sand khopesh of sun's fury.....has a lot of nice effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    What I think is OP is anyone who uses implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill to be more effective in quests then I am - so I then find the time to post complaints about their use of implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill thus making me OP on the forums.
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    Here's a new flash for the people who have not evolved and still play sponge toons: you serve no purpose. it's rude, but it's the truth. Divines are powerful, have been for a long time. They don't need you. If you need them you add no value to the group.

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