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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    So that would be looking at 4 - 12 a hit, average around 8 (a roll of 2 on a D1-3), OK, That's pretty good.
    Not the be-all-end all for EE self-healing, certainly, but yeah, equip two of those bad boys and get ~16 back per swing factoring in 80% offhand procs + whatever doublestrike and that could be pretty nice.

    EDIT: Ha, I just had the worst thought ever: Craft a pair of +5 Metalline Flametouched Iron of Vampirism one-handers to dual wield in times of utter desperation, when the rest of the party has wiped and you absolutely must kill a miniboss before you can raise your party. Given enough amp, if the miniboss is self-healing the fight could last forever!

  2. #22
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Well....at least they are spending their time fixing important things. God knows that getting back 8 pts of health when you are getting whacked for 90 is OP.
    The blade itself incites to deeds of violence.
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  3. #23
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Well....at least they are spending their time fixing important things. God knows that getting back 8 pts of health when you are getting whacked for 90 is OP.
    It's the level drain that is getting nerfed. Sorry, we derailed there.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    EDIT: Ha, I just had the worst thought ever: Craft a pair of +5 Metalline Flametouched Iron of Vampirism one-handers to dual wield in times of utter desperation, when the rest of the party has wiped and you absolutely must kill a miniboss before you can raise your party. Given enough amp, if the miniboss is self-healing the fight could last forever!
    I ran into a similar situation once while soloing. My damage couldn't keep up with the bosses self healing but he couldn't hurt me enough either. After about a 10 minute standoff I convinced a gulidie to join and help me complete.

  5. #25
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    It's the level drain that is getting nerfed. Sorry, we derailed there.
    Ah ok got ya...yeah not so much red A over that then
    The blade itself incites to deeds of violence.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    So Nightmares are nerfed . . . question is are they useless?

    Has anyone done any serious testing to get the actual proc-rate on the woowoo?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Life drain is getting massacred on Lamannia. It's been changed to only proc on only 20-30% of critical hits according to forum testers.

    I just wish I had known how life drain was going to eventually turn out so that I could have spent my time farming DQ instead of Citw (and FOT to upgrade).
    And as usual Turbine nerfs items people use instead of making better mobs. There goes sacrificial dagger and nightmare. I guess this is their way of telling us to use the sucky named items out of the latest xpack.

    I get so damn tired of the eroding quality of this game and the lack of reasons I have to continue playing it.

  8. #28
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    And as usual Turbine nerfs items people use instead of making better mobs. There goes sacrificial dagger and nightmare. I guess this is their way of telling us to use the sucky named items out of the latest xpack.

    I get so damn tired of the eroding quality of this game and the lack of reasons I have to continue playing it.
    I'm not so sure it's a nerf as much as a correction . . . I swear life-stealing used to proc at 50% on a crit whereas now on live it's looking like 100%. Some aspect of the spaghetti-code reared it's ugly head again.

    it would be nice if a developer would state what woowoo % is WAI.

  9. #29
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Alleged nerf.
    Agreed, more like a fix. Was hard to not see this coming. Sure it sucks, but any complaining is unwarranted.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  10. #30
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Agreed, more like a fix. Was hard to not see this coming. Sure it sucks, but any complaining is unwarranted.
    I'm not sure about this, the complaining might be warranted.

    I'm not sure with a <50% woowoo-rate if Nightmares are worth using at all. I'd have to test stuff more thoroughly to be sure but I don't think the Nightmare Sobrien beat-down times can compete with a Balizarde now . . . and the Orange-named big bag of HP is currently the Nightmare's ideal target.

    My point is now on live the Nightmare is the best trash-killer . . . there always has to be something that's the best trash-killer. If the Nightmare is relegated from being the best trash-killer then it's now a worthless weapon.

    It costs a feat. It's not a good boss-beater. If it can't kill trash better than a Balizarde or a Drow Khopesh it serves no purpose.

    My Kensai has two nighmares and two balizardes, when the U19 changes came I went with slashing focus because of the nightmares. I chose less boss DPS (Drow Khopesh versus Balizarde) to be a better trash killer. If this lowering of the woowoo % makes the Nightmare not the best trash-killer than this is pointless. Dump it like a bad habbit, go pierce-specced, switch to Balizardes.

    This lowers our viable options, makes the game smaller, and that's not a good thing.

  11. #31
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm not sure about this, the complaining might be warranted. [snip]

    My point is now on live the Nightmare is the best trash-killer . . . there always has to be something that's the best trash-killer. If the Nightmare is relegated from being the best trash-killer then it's now a worthless weapon.
    [snip]
    It's the natural cycle of "balance" in online games: something happens to be noticeably more powerful, players start abusing it, then it's nerfed below a reasonable threshold, then the cycle repeats. It'll balance out in the long run - most likely through addition of new loot, or perhaps through simultaneous changes to other loot. I don't think this makes the game "smaller" or worse, but rather better and more interesting, as it encourages the players to seek new options. Remove the ever-changing element from a MMO and it becomes boring.

    Remember when Terror was the best trash-beater? Or, as a better analogy, Nightmare random gen weapons? I'd say this situation is quite similar.

    I don't think it's "warranted", because it's not working as described at present. Meaning the devs can choose to change it at any time and be 100% justified in doing so, because it's not technically by design. It sucks, no doubt about it, but I'm pretty sure most players using the weapons or making the woowoo builds realized this - and should have expected a nerf/fix sooner or later.
    Last edited by Ausdoerrt; 10-16-2013 at 11:50 AM.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  12. #32
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm not sure about this, the complaining might be warranted.

    I'm not sure with a <50% woowoo-rate if Nightmares are worth using at all. I'd have to test stuff more thoroughly to be sure but I don't think the Nightmare Sobrien beat-down times can compete with a Balizarde now . . . and the Orange-named big bag of HP is currently the Nightmare's ideal target.

    My point is now on live the Nightmare is the best trash-killer . . . there always has to be something that's the best trash-killer. If the Nightmare is relegated from being the best trash-killer then it's now a worthless weapon.

    It costs a feat. It's not a good boss-beater. If it can't kill trash better than a Balizarde or a Drow Khopesh it serves no purpose.

    My Kensai has two nighmares and two balizardes, when the U19 changes came I went with slashing focus because of the nightmares. I chose less boss DPS (Drow Khopesh versus Balizarde) to be a better trash killer. If this lowering of the woowoo % makes the Nightmare not the best trash-killer than this is pointless. Dump it like a bad habbit, go pierce-specced, switch to Balizardes.

    This lowers our viable options, makes the game smaller, and that's not a good thing.
    Remember when they nerfed Terror?

    It was a decent, all-around trash killer. Because of the two saves, it wasn’t spectacular, but it was sure as heck a fun weapon to run around a quest with. The fact that it Feared and Intimidated – I mean, seriously, who in the heck came up with THAT idea? – was annoying, yes, but that PK was fun to watch go off.

    And then someone comes along, decides is it OP (or whatever their lame excuse was) and nerfs the proc rate.

    So basically, you took time to farm for a weapon that had some useful and unique qualities, and someone comes along with a “bright idea” and makes that weapon no better (if not worse) than some of the random loot you can acquire.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    And then someone comes along, decides is it OP (or whatever their lame excuse was) and nerfs the proc rate.
    No. They made it into randgen loot, and to everyone's surprise, it worked better when used on rapiers than with a poor great sword. So suddenly, the effect went from cool to OP. And then, instead of sacling it back to fit the original implementation that worked weel, they nuked it from orbit.

    Much like the current nerf. Instead of scaling it back so the named weapons that had the effect to start with still work decently, they're nerfing it into the ground.

    /sigh
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  14. #34
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm not sure about this, the complaining might be warranted.

    I'm not sure with a <50% woowoo-rate if Nightmares are worth using at all. I'd have to test stuff more thoroughly to be sure but I don't think the Nightmare Sobrien beat-down times can compete with a Balizarde now . . . and the Orange-named big bag of HP is currently the Nightmare's ideal target.

    My point is now on live the Nightmare is the best trash-killer . . . there always has to be something that's the best trash-killer. If the Nightmare is relegated from being the best trash-killer then it's now a worthless weapon.

    It costs a feat. It's not a good boss-beater. If it can't kill trash better than a Balizarde or a Drow Khopesh it serves no purpose.

    My Kensai has two nighmares and two balizardes, when the U19 changes came I went with slashing focus because of the nightmares. I chose less boss DPS (Drow Khopesh versus Balizarde) to be a better trash killer. If this lowering of the woowoo % makes the Nightmare not the best trash-killer than this is pointless. Dump it like a bad habbit, go pierce-specced, switch to Balizardes.

    This lowers our viable options, makes the game smaller, and that's not a good thing.
    Keep making posts like this and you will loose your Trolling license......too much sense - not enough vitriol and baiting.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Remember when they nerfed Terror?
    Aren't Terror's complete and utter garbage now?

    if something is OP, and I'm not conceding the Nightmare is, nerfing it to the point of worthless is not the way to balance stuff.

    The Terror was nerfed to the point of being worthless. Going from best trash-killer to vendor-trash is too strong of a nerf.

    This shouldn't be what happens to the Nightmare.

  16. #36
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Remember when they nerfed Terror?

    It was a decent, all-around trash killer. Because of the two saves, it wasn’t spectacular, but it was sure as heck a fun weapon to run around a quest with. The fact that it Feared and Intimidated – I mean, seriously, who in the heck came up with THAT idea? – was annoying, yes, but that PK was fun to watch go off.

    And then someone comes along, decides is it OP (or whatever their lame excuse was) and nerfs the proc rate.

    So basically, you took time to farm for a weapon that had some useful and unique qualities, and someone comes along with a “bright idea” and makes that weapon no better (if not worse) than some of the random loot you can acquire.
    So what? If one piece of gear in an MMO is significantly stronger than other relevant gear, expect it to be nerfed eventually. With Terror you could kill as much as the highest DPS players even when playing on an 8 str toon. Nightmare is so much better than other weapons vs EE trash that you just have to expect a nerf.

  17. #37
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    Keep making posts like this and you will loose your Trolling license......too much sense - not enough vitriol and baiting.
    A troll's gotta do what a troll's gotta do. Logic and well-thought-out arguments are the best course for this discussion.

    Think of it as trolling by not trolling.

  18. #38
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    A troll's gotta do what a troll's gotta do. Logic and well-thought-out arguments are the best course for this discussion.

    Think of it as trolling by not trolling.
    Trololo

  19. #39
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Nightmare is so much better than other weapons vs EE trash that you just have to expect a nerf.
    Emphasis on the word "so" . . .

    Yes it's the best, there always will be a "best." But the margin of "better" is not up to the level of "so much it needs to be nerfed to the point that it's useless."

    And that's what this is doing. It is a trash-killer, if it's not the best trash-killer it is pointless. If the Balizarde is both a better/equal trash killer and a better boss-killer there is no point in going slashing-specc'd. A choice is removed from us when a situation is a no-brainer, at this point on live it is a tough decision.

  20. #40
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    So what? If one piece of gear in an MMO is significantly stronger than other relevant gear, expect it to be nerfed eventually. With Terror you could kill as much as the highest DPS players even when playing on an 8 str toon. Nightmare is so much better than other weapons vs EE trash that you just have to expect a nerf.

    Using that logic, we should nerf Disruption, Vorpal, and Banishing weapons as well. Can’t have toons with an 8 STR killing as many mobs as the highest DPS player.

    Terror wasn’t OP in any way shape or form. There were enough drawbacks on that weapon to make it a nice general-purpose trash killer with some niche applications, but little else.

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