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  1. #1
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Default How do splashes affect UMD?

    If I try to use an item completely outside the toon's class, then UMD determines the chance of success. But what if I have some levels in the appropriate class? Or dilettante in another appropriate class, or both?

    I have a level 17 half-elf whom I want to completely remake (via LR +20) into sorcerer. I want to be able to do scroll healing. How would 2 or 3 levels of FvS affect her scroll UMD? Or paladin dilettante, or both? (Cannot splash paladin because she is chaotic good)
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    Community Member Drak's Avatar
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    Caster level check or UMD check. Whichever is highest chance. One does not affect the other in any way.
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  3. #3
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    If I try to use an item completely outside the toon's class, then UMD determines the chance of success. But what if I have some levels in the appropriate class? Or dilettante in another appropriate class, or both?

    I have a level 17 half-elf whom I want to completely remake (via LR +20) into sorcerer. I want to be able to do scroll healing. How would 2 or 3 levels of FvS affect her scroll UMD? Or paladin dilettante, or both? (Cannot splash paladin because she is chaotic good)
    The use of scroll is based on better of class based or UMD based use. So any of those would not affect.

    Splashing in 1 rogue/bard/artificer to unlock max ranks in UMD(if you have the skillpoints) will help, or alternatively getting cleric/FVS dilitante and the extra level enchants in that(if they work now, no idea they were bugged immediately after the enchantment change) will allow you to get close to 100% use.

    My 1 rogue/rest human sorc got a reasonable probability to use heal scrolls at level 9(with GH+skillboost+umd 3 item, had at about 80%?) and at level 15 I could stop worrying about the success%.

  4. #4
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    For a Sorcerer you just want max UMD, your Charisma will push it high enough. Rogue/Arti splash would make it easier, but you can make it with just 11 cross-class ranks eventually too. As a Half-Elf, you could take the Cleric dilettante if you want, requires 13 base Wisdom though.

    For caster level checks to use scrolls:

    Quote Originally Posted by ddowiki
    2. The spell appears on the character's spell list at a higher level than he can currently cast, and his overall character level meets the scroll's minimum level.

    This requires a check and may not succeed. The game rolls 1d20 and adds 2x the character's caster level. If the total is at greater than or equal to 2x the level at which he could cast the spell himself, the attempt to use the scroll succeeds. This gives a 95% chance of success if the character is one level short, 85% for two levels, 75% for three, and so on. The scroll is destroyed whether the attempt is successful or not.
    You'd need way too many Cleric/FvS levels to use Heal scrolls reliably.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    If I try to use an item completely outside the toon's class, then UMD determines the chance of success. But what if I have some levels in the appropriate class? Or dilettante in another appropriate class, or both?

    I have a level 17 half-elf whom I want to completely remake (via LR +20) into sorcerer. I want to be able to do scroll healing. How would 2 or 3 levels of FvS affect her scroll UMD? Or paladin dilettante, or both? (Cannot splash paladin because she is chaotic good)
    The short answer? It will do practically nothing for you.

    Use Magic Device works in two main ways: trying to convince a magical item that you are a certain race or class, or trying to imitate certain class features and "bluff" magical keywords to activate a magical item. Scroll and wand UMD falls under the latter.

    On the other hand, instead of a UMD check, you can attempt to make a caster level check. This applies when trying to use a scroll where you meet the character level requirements, but not the class level requirements. For example, a level 8 wizard attempts to use a scroll of Teleport. The minimum level to attempt to use such a scroll is 7, but the minimum level for a wizard to use it without a check is 9. So, the wizard can make a caster level check to pretend to be of a high enough level to use the scroll.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDOWiki
    This requires a check and may not succeed. The game rolls 1d20 and adds 2x the character's caster level. If the total is at greater than or equal to 2x the level at which he could cast the spell himself, the attempt to use the scroll succeeds. This gives a 95% chance of success if the character is one level short, 85% for two levels, 75% for three, and so on. The scroll is destroyed whether the attempt is successful or not.
    In this case, because the wizard is only 1 level off, the roll only fails on a 1, so there's a 95% chance of using the scroll correctly.

    You can make a UMD check, or a caster level check, but you don't get your caster level check bonus as a bonus to your UMD. Does that make sense? So as a level 3 Favored Soul trying to use a scroll of Heal, your roll of 1d20 + 6 (2x caster level of 3) has to be equal to or better than 24 (2x the scroll class level). So only on rolls of 18 and up would you succeed, giving you a class success rate of 15%. And if you're actively putting points into UMD as a sorcerer, your UMD is going to be better than that caster level check by a country mile.
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  6. #6
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    I see. Sounds like my best bet is to splash 1 bard level and to take Artificer dilettante to increase scroll UMD.

    Edited: Even better -- no bard levels, splash 2 artificer instead and take Arcanotechnician Wand and Scroll Mastery. Then I can use dilettante for something else.
    Last edited by brian14; 10-15-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    I see. Sounds like my best bet is to splash 1 bard level and to take Artificer dilettante to increase scroll UMD.
    If you're okay with that, that will work nice and easily. You can get there as a pure Sorc too if you want, it'll just be delayed a little longer, and require a little more effort (+6 Exc Cha Skills item, +2 Good Luck item, etc). By 28 I think you're looking at 19 base ranks...11 Heroic plus 8 Epic...getting that to 40 is pretty trivial with a max Charisma.

  8. #8
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    If you wanted to go the pure sorc route, I have found that taking the feat skill focus UMD can get you the extra oomph you need for no fail scroll healing around level 17ish. I swap it back out at 20 and by 21 I have no fail checks again.

    I have also found that any chance at all to fail means you generally will fail -especially when you need it most. The numbers 1 through 5 come up on UMD checks about 75% of the time ;-)

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    There are two types of checks that can occur with Scroll usage

    1. Caster Level Check - This is a check that is done based on the Class/Dilettante giving you access to the spell on the scroll
    - 1d20 and adds 2x the character's caster level
    - If the total is at greater than or equal to 2x the level at which he could cast the spell himself, the attempt to use the scroll succeeds

    Example: Heal Scroll Level 6 Spell, Cleric needs to be Caster level 11, FvS Caster level 12 to cast from Memory. But only Character Level 9 to use the scroll.

    Caster Level Check would be 22 for a Cleric Class or 24 for FvS Class
    A Pure Cleric Level 9 would be 18 (2x9) + d20 to successfully use the scroll or 85% chance
    A Pure FvS Level 9 would be 18 (2x9) +d20 to successfully use the scroll or 75% chance

    2. UMD - When you don't have a Caster Level check the next option is to try and "Pretend" you do.

    Heal Scroll is UMD 40. d20 + UMD >= UMD Required

    Now my experience is not which is highest, my experience was that if you had caster levels it did not matter what your UMD was you would continue to use the Caster Levels. Based on this on my FvS and Cleric I would use Sorcerer Dilettante until my UMD was high enough to cast the spells I was after at which point I would switch to a different Dilettante.

  10. #10
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    I see. Sounds like my best bet is to splash 1 bard level and to take Artificer dilettante to increase scroll UMD.

    Edited: Even better -- no bard levels, splash 2 artificer instead and take Arcanotechnician Wand and Scroll Mastery. Then I can use dilettante for something else.
    No real need.

    I have a full sorc that has more than enough UMD to reliably use Heal scrolls all the time.

    1 bard level splash is not going to get you much for the one splash. Rogue would be much better but you will need to bump up you INT a bit so you have the skill points to use in UMD. Then I would through some into trapping skills as well.
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