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  1. #1
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    Default How to make a sorcerer?

    I'd like just a little help in making my human sorcorer.

    1. I'm trying to decide how to set up the 28 point build. I put CHA to 18 immediately, but I'm not sure if I should spend the remaing point totally on CON or use some on CON and some on DEX because the advice thing to the side says it would help with the lack of armor.

    2. In terms of feats I chose Mental toughness and maximize spell because I thought it would come in handy against bosses or in a tough spot.

    3. As for the spells, I've chosen ray of enfeeblement because from experience I hated being hit by this spell and for an offensive spell I'm not sure whether to get Niac's cold ray or magic missile. I'm not sure what spells to get later on either. Will the low level offensive spells become obsolete as I level up and cause me to replace them with non-offensive spells like the spot hidden door one or something else?
    Joseph Korczakowski

  2. #2
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    1) Oh god, don't listen to that. Ever. No. No. Don't bother with AC (armour class). Dex won't make a large difference, and a sorc's defence is typically through damage.

    2) They're okay feat choices, as you level I recommend getting heighten, empower and spell foci. (Typically in evocation, maybe conjuration, depending on what elements you enjoy the most.) *Note. Many people frown at mental toughness, esp on a sorc, but they're okay for new players. Spell foci are more useful, however. (And you'll have plenty of sp at endgame.)

    3) Ray of enfeeblement wasn't high on my to-get list. I normally start with magic missile and niacs. (Niacs is high dmg but has a save, magic missile is avg damage but no save.) You can swap them out if you don't use them, though that's optional.

    As for stat points, I recommend high cha and decent constitution. Then all level ups (levels 4, 8, 12, 16, etc) into charisma. (14 con is acceptable, however, leaving the rest for charisma.)

    For the sake of curiosity, what server did you pick?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    1) Oh god, don't listen to that. Ever. No. No. Don't bother with AC (armour class). Dex won't make a large difference, and a sorc's defence is typically through damage.

    2) They're okay feat choices, as you level I recommend getting heighten, empower and spell foci. (Typically in evocation, maybe conjuration, depending on what elements you enjoy the most.) *Note. Many people frown at mental toughness, esp on a sorc, but they're okay for new players. Spell foci are more useful, however. (And you'll have plenty of sp at endgame.)

    3) Ray of enfeeblement wasn't high on my to-get list. I normally start with magic missile and niacs. (Niacs is high dmg but has a save, magic missile is avg damage but no save.) You can swap them out if you don't use them, though that's optional.

    As for stat points, I recommend high cha and decent constitution. Then all level ups (levels 4, 8, 12, 16, etc) into charisma. (14 con is acceptable, however, leaving the rest for charisma.)

    For the sake of curiosity, what server did you pick?
    Thelanis is the server I'm creating on. and thanks for some of the advise.
    Joseph Korczakowski

  4. #4
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph_Korczakowski View Post
    Thelanis is the server I'm creating on. and thanks for some of the advise.
    Ooh, Thelanis, perfect!

    Mind dropping me a pm with your toon name? I'll go check my bank and see if I have any spare caster items for ya. (And cure serious pots, if ya need 'em)

  5. #5
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    I would recommend some int to pick up Concentration, Spellcraft, and UMD.
    10 int, 16 con, 18 cha.

    I would take maximize and empower asap (till level 3). And then take two SLAs asap for the first eight enhancement points, and you're ready to rock. Perhaps alternate with Sonic Blast to slow down mobs while your SLAs recharge.

    My experience of rolling a F2P 28pb alt on Wayfinder says that you don't need many first level offensive spells, because the SLA are stronger, cheaper, simply better. Just take one offensive spell (my pick Sonic Blast) and then focus on mobility (jump & expeditious retreat).
    Last edited by cru121; 10-15-2013 at 09:13 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    I would recommend some int to pick up Concentration, Spellcraft, and UMD.
    10 int, 16 con, 18 cha.

    I would take maximize and empower asap (till level 3). And then take two SLAs asap for the first eight enhancement points, and you're ready to rock. Perhaps alternate with Sonic Blast to slow down mobs while your SLAs recharge.
    I completely agree with this.

    Getting Maximize and Empower (and later Heighten) will make your SLAs extremely powerful damage with very low spell point cost. Remeber to right click your SLAs and set them to every metamagic feat you have to be always on. This will make them powerful, while leaving normal spells without the metas on - saving spell points. You can always turn the metas on for everything by toggling the feats when they're dragged to a hotbar.

    As you level and get better gear you'll start to get spell points enough to blast away with no regard to spell point cost. You'll have to get the feel for this yourself, but I'd recommend starting out using just SLAs and saving the spell points for boss fights so you can blast away indescrimantely there.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  7. #7
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    Sample build for an air / fire savant ...


    Stats:

    STR: 10
    DEX: 8
    CON: 14
    INT: 12
    WIS: 8
    CHA: 18

    You'll be happy to have a couple of extra points in STR because you'll be encumbered less often and your sorcerer will be rendered helpless and killed quite a bit less often from STR-draining effects (ray of enfeeblement, incorporeal undead that drain STR, ...).


    Skills: Max UMD, concentration, spellcraft, balance
    1 point in tumble
    - if you get a +2 to INT tome at level 7, then put points into jump for better mobility
    - The points in balance are very, very much worthwhile because when you're new your sorcerer will get tripped a *lot*, and it's good to be able to stand up quickly again.

    Feats:
    1 maximize
    1 empower
    3 spell focus: evocation
    6 heighten
    9 greater spell focus: evocation
    12 enlarge
    15 force of personality
    18 extend
    21 epic spell focus: evocation
    24 quicken
    26 toughness or something else
    27 epic ability: CHA
    28 Some kind of spellpower, most likely


    Enhancements:
    If this is an air / fire savant, then get the tier 1 SLAs up to level 3 in the fire savant tree and in the air savant tree with your first 8 enhancement points (fire first, then air). Then invest 3 points in the electric loop SLA as soon as you can. Then get the Scorch SLA from the fire enhancement tree, and then get the fireball SLA. Finally, get the lightning bolt SLA from air. Bring along a hireling that can heal your sorcerer if you solo a lot.

    SLA = spell-like ability, for which you can activate metamagic feats (maximize, empower, heighten, and enlarge being particularly useful) at no extra cost. SLAs are the key to leveling efficiently for a sorcerer.


    Spells:
    1. sonic blast (lvl 1), expeditious retreat (lvl 1)
    2. night shield (lvl 1)
    3. protection from evil or detect secret doors (lvl 1)
    4. resist energy (lvl 2)
    5. scorching ray or knock (lvl 2)
    6. fireball (lvl 3)
    7. knock (lvl 2) or invisibility (lvl 2) and displacement (lvl 3)
    8. firewall (lvl 4)
    9. blur (lvl 2) and haste (lvl 3) and dimension door (lvl 4)
    10. eladar's electric surge (lvl 5)

    ... and so on from there.

    You can eventually replace sonic blast with jump, as a level 1 spell, when sonic blast stops doing noteworthy damage to mobs and no longer dazes them. If you can find a clicky for detect secret doors or protection from evil, then take the other as a spell. Prioritize protection from evil, though, if you have a clicky for neither, and take jump as your third choice, after both detect secret doors and protection from evil have found their way into your sorcerer's spells and/or gear.

    You might take protection from energy (lvl 3) and fire shield (lvl 4), at some point, particularly to help with bosses and traps. Rage is also worth considering, for a level 3 spell, if you team a lot.


    Another possible savant combination for heroic leveling: Earth / water or water / earth
    If you go for earth savant instead, then you'll be putting in "spell focus: conjuration" where "evocation" is, and you'll want to use web (lvl 2) a lot for crowd control. Water makes a nice pairing with earth savant, for heroic leveling (1 - 20) because it doesn't mess up web (fire does) and because the single target SLAs in cold either work off the save versus conjuration spells for mobs (tier 1 water SLA) or there's a non-reflex save involved (tier 3 water SLA), which is good against mobs with evasion.

    Hopefully this helps.
    Last edited by EnjoyTheJourney; 10-15-2013 at 01:25 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnjoyTheJourney View Post

    Feats:
    1 maximize
    1 empower
    3 spell focus: evocation
    6 heighten
    9 greater spell focus: evocation
    12 enlarge
    15 force of personality
    18 extend
    21 epic spell focus: evocation
    24 quicken
    26 toughness or something else
    27 epic ability: CHA
    28 Some kind of spellpower, most likely
    All the other advice was pretty solid but Enlarge? really? He/she would be better off taking Mental toughness, even though I don't like that feat myself but for a first lifer nothing else really to take. And Quicken should only be taken on a sorc if you are playing WF for Recon. So drop Quicken as well for Improved Mental Toughness, as your first life. If you TR, change the Mental Toughness for Past lives.

    Also a spell that works pretty well in low levels without needing much DCs is Web. Web is your best friend at low levels. At higher levels need to improve your DCs but it is conjuration based so you could also drop Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness for Spell Focus: Conjuration and Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration and boost your web DC for some nice crowd control. With that in mind put down a Web then Firewall and watch them burn. But you can not drop a fireball because it blows up the web, in case you did not know that.
    Last edited by Da_Most_Shady; 10-15-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Most_Shady View Post
    All the other advice was pretty solid but Enlarge? really? He/she would be better off taking Mental toughness, even though I don't like that feat myself but for a first lifer nothing else really to take. And Quicken should only be taken on a sorc if you are playing WF for Recon. So drop Quicken as well for Improved Mental Toughness, as your first life. If you TR, change the Mental Toughness for Past lives.

    Also a spell that works pretty well in low levels without needing much DCs is Web. Web is your best friend at low levels. At higher levels need to improve your DCs but it is conjuration based so you could also drop Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness for Spell Focus: Conjuration and Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration and boost your web DC for some nice crowd control. With that in mind put down a Web then Firewall and watch them burn. But you can not drop a fireball because it blows up the web, in case you did not know that.
    The mental toughness line of feats is attractive for the extra spell points and added crit chance. The main benefit for enlarge has to do with SLAs (electric loop, fireball, ...) and possibly finger of death (should it be taken). I figure that's a taste issue, though. Also, for new players SLAs that work to optimal effectiveness are probably a very good thing because heroic leveling might be "old hat" to vets, but it certainly isn't for new players.

    Electric loop is a reasonable substitute for web for crowd control, in a lot of situations. Also, for a first life new player, the DCs may not be very good for web and spending two feats to boost a single spell that might not have a good DC in the end anyways (especially at higher levels) seems like it might be better avoided.

    I did wonder afterward "Why did I have quickness in there?" Agreed, it's not critical for a human sorcerer.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnjoyTheJourney View Post
    Electric loop is a reasonable substitute for web for crowd control, in a lot of situations. Also, for a first life new player, the DCs may not be very good for web and spending two feats to boost a single spell that might not have a good DC in the end anyways (especially at higher levels) seems like it might be better avoided.
    The problem with Electric Loop is that it also has a high save and without Past Lives is pretty much impossible to be relied on as CC. I only mentioned taking the two feats for web because not much else to take as a first lifer. So either take feats to boost your CC in web or to boost you SP a little. Either choice would be fine I guess.

  11. #11
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnjoyTheJourney View Post
    Electric loop is a reasonable substitute for web for crowd control, in a lot of situations. Also, for a first life new player, the DCs may not be very good for web and spending two feats to boost a single spell that might not have a good DC in the end anyways (especially at higher levels) seems like it might be better avoided.
    Why is Web not reliable at upper levels? My feat choices are Enchantment/Evocation/Necromancy (Dependent on build or class). I know DC's in EE are all fudged up but in Heroic content a 19 (Heightened Web, DC 9) + Charisma Modifier DC is plenty. If you happen to have a Conjuration focus on a piece of gear, all the better. If the NPC doesn't stick to it the first time, run it through the Web a second or third time (or just kill it ).

    p.s. I have an Earth Savant and even he is Evocation based, my Conjuration spells have no save Well the ones I truly rely on.

  12. #12
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    (1) EnjoyTheJourney's sample stat build is what I would consider to be ideal for a first life human sorcerer. Anything less than 10 Strength tends to result in misery, 12 Intelligence is the minimum a human needs to be able to max Concentration, Spellcraft and Use Magical Device (all more or less essential) and still have the odd points over to get things like basic Tumble, Balance, etc. It's a shame that this doesn't leave room to push Constitution to 16, but them's the numbers.

    (2) I believe the most attractive feat choices to be as follows (assuming non-main-Earth builds and excluding Past Life feats): Spell Focus: Evocation, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, Maximise Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Force of Personality, Heighten Spell, and Toughness. Any of those ten will serve you well. Toughness and Force of Personality are more attractive if you don't have much gear to boost your hit points or saves - Toughness isn't mandatory like it used to be, but it's an option for someone who may be hurting for hit points. Heighten, Maximise and Empower are all attractive in general and will be extremely important if you plan to take and use your spell-like ability enhancements, and are all strong choices even if you won't. Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness are particularly attractive if you plan to use relatively fewer SLAs, but still decent choices regardless. Spell Focus feats are something I personally wouldn't want to miss for any sorcerer. Quicken Spell can be especially useful at higher levels, where your Concentration skill might struggle to keep pace with the damage, but I've done sorcerer lives without it.

    (3) At present, sorcerers are best off focusing on two different elements, which can't be diametrically opposed. Fire and Air is my personal favourite combination, with either one primary, but you should feel free to try combinations like Water and Air. You could elect to go with Force as a secondary or tertiary damage type, but it's comparatively less supported than using two classical elements. Your offensive spell choices will depend on the damage types you've selected. A Fire and Air Sorcerer would do well to take Burning Hands and Shocking Grasp amongst his first level spells, moving on to things like Scorching Ray and Electric Loop, and Fireball and Lightning Bolt. You will experience some obsolescence of these spells as you advance, though it won't be immediate: Shocking Grasp, for example, is fast casting and allows no save, and would merit use through the lower mid levels as a solution to evasive enemies and extra method of putting down foes that get too close. You won't always need one spell of each element at each spell level, just make sure you have decent options for both at all times. Immunities happen. You should also be careful not to rely exclusively on spells that allow reflex-based saving throws, as certain monsters can evade these - better to have something that's guaranteed to land than trust to fate. You also want to be packing area effect from an early stage of your career!

    The Use Magical Device skill be important to you as a human sorcerer. You should consider investing wands of cure spells from an early stage, eventually moving on to Heal scrolls when your skill and budget can support it.

  13. #13
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Most_Shady View Post
    All the other advice was pretty solid but Enlarge? really?
    Hey, don't knock it `til you try it! If nothing else, it's nice being able to spam your SLAs from outside mobs' aggro radius. I used to be "PSHAW! Who needs Enlarge?" but now it's like "ZOMG ENLARGE!!1!"

    That said, I would push back the Spell Focuses to take Extend and possibly FoP sooner. When you really want Extend is when you first get Haste & Displace at lvl 6 or 7, not at lvl 18.

  14. #14
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Mental Toughness

    Usage: Passive
    Prerequisite: Able to cast spells

    Description

    This feat increases the character's maximum spell points by 10 at first level, and 5 spell points for each additional level. Thus it grants a total maximum of +105 spell points at level20. Also, increases your spell critical chance by 1%.

    its a good feat for a nuker, ditto improved mental toughness.

  15. #15
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    three things

    1) you do not need 18 cha, 16 will do fine.
    2) you will need certain skill such as spellcraft, balance, concentration...etc
    3) better have all your stats above 10.. unless you enjoy being helpless from time to time

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