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  1. #41
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    That's not WF being OP, that's the classes being OP. Even fleshy casters are viable.. ish.

  2. #42
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Paladin is worthless, yes.
    Shadowdancer tier 5? Meh. I wouldn't get it, but I don't like shadow dancer anyway.

    I've never, EVER been put to sleep. Who cares. Nauseated/exhausted? Meh. Scroll and you're fine. Paralyze? Don't fail the save. Energy drained? Deathward. Hold person, FoM.

    No, beholders are just easy. I melee them without bothering with absorb items. Most of the time without deathblock either.

    Palemasters are also the easiest way for a fleshie wizard to self heal. Hardly a decent comparison, is it? Palemasters can self heal, WF fighters really can't. Tell me how that reconstruct scroll goes.
    How many people have spell absorb? Everyone that saw it as a good investment of time. Building DDO to cater to those that don't feel like getting better gear/builds is folly.
    I have spell absorb.......its mainly for beholder fighting, even if I dont really need it, can take the neg levels, kill the beholder and carry on.........I just have this hate of being neg leveled...........also other casters that cast neg level but I dont need the spell asorbtion for them, dw, from hire/clickies or friendly divine who might not cry about handing it out is more than good enough.

  3. #43
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    I don't really know what to add, because it's all been said. I love Warforged, and hate what they've done to them.

    The most sensible and interesting choices of body are merely sub-optimal - for example, Adamantine Body on a Favoured Soul. You'd have to spend a feat to take Heavy Armour on a Favoured Soul anyway, and you get a little bit of Adamantine DR. The AC scales correctly and the Max Dex Bonus wouldn't scale anyway... but you don't get the +6 PRR that all other heavy armour users get, for some undisclosed reason. Given that you'll probably be taking DR 5/- at third level from Warpriest, you're simply worse off than a human who spent their free feat on Heavy Armour Proficiency. You have one less feat (which is fine, that's a human advantage) and 6 less PRR (which is not, that's dumb and far from insignificant). I could put up with this.

    Other options, like Composite Body, are merely annoying. 5% ASF in exchange for a low-to-nothing, but enhancement-value taking AC: the only problem being that an actual armor-bonus granting bracer or robe will give you...higher ACs at the equivalent level, most of the time. Still, it's only 5% - easy enough to fix. An unnecessary penalty that doesn't stop certain options (Sorcerer, Wizard) from being decent.

    Then, the most horrific of all, Mithral Body. Mithral Body costs a feat, and in exchange you get AC that's equivalent to Chainmail at all levels. You have 5% less ASF than a Chainmail user, which sounds good on paper...except that Arcane Sigil only goes to 10% ASF reduction and doesn't stack with other sources of ASF reduction, while regular armour users get the option of Twilight and Greater Twilight, for up to 20% reduction, which stacked last time I checked... meaning you can get ASF-free light armour and still have casting dexterity or the like to offset any additional ASF from using a light or heavy shield. You get a skill check penalty of -1 instead of -2; but you get 2 less PRR. Then, the killer blow, you get a Max Dex Bonus (and therefore Max Dodge bonus) of 5 as opposed to one that scales from 5, to 13 at epic levels. And you've spent a feat. Who in their right mind would take a feat that read: "You gain light armour proficiency and reduce the penalty to your skills from wearing armour by 1. You lose 2 PRR and the Maximum Dexterity Bonus allowed to you by your armour is reduced by 8."

    So yeah, what can we say, but fix it please? Come on! Hold a meeting, agree on basic fixes like adding in missing PRR to the relevant feats (+2 on Mithral Body, +6 on Adamantine), and adding the missing Max Dex Bonus to Mithral Body (You gain +2 Max Dex Bonus at levels 4, 10, 16 and 22). If you want to get really serious you can add in appropriate compensation for the Composite Body ASF (Composite Body docents now give 2/3/4/5/6 AC instead of 0/1/2/3/4, and grant PRR equal to 1/4 of your Base Attack Bonus), and increase the rewards for spending feats on Mithral Body and Adamantine Body. But please, at least make light armour classes for Warforged viable!

  4. #44
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Think of it this way: Generic class X. Nothing inherently good for heal amp, no repair/reconstruct spells, no healing spells. (What a bad class.. it sounds like barbarian.)
    Is toaster a good choice for that class? How is it better than a fleshy?

    For divines: Is toaster better than, say, human? (Aside from melee FvS, psh)

    The point is the only reasons toasters are considered a viable choice (at all) is through arcanes. Aside from that, fleshies are better.
    ...And arcanes need nerfing. Nerf them all!
    Buff the divines!

  5. #45
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Think of it this way: Generic class X. Nothing inherently good for heal amp, no repair/reconstruct spells, no healing spells. (What a bad class.. it sounds like barbarian.)
    Is toaster a good choice for that class? How is it better than a fleshy?

    For divines: Is toaster better than, say, human? (Aside from melee FvS, psh)

    The point is the only reasons toasters are considered a viable choice (at all) is through arcanes. Aside from that, fleshies are better.
    ...And arcanes need nerfing. Nerf them all!
    Buff the divines!
    DONT NERF BARDS!!!!........ok they are prob not arcanes but their magic is arcane no? Well its subject to arcane spell failure and most of it is in the wiz/sorc spell book?

  6. #46
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    DONT NERF BARDS!!!!........ok they are prob not arcanes but their magic is arcane no? Well its subject to arcane spell failure and most of it is in the wiz/sorc spell book?
    Cure [X], Heal... divines..

    So nerf the bards, then fix that the follow-up divine buff. Better?

  7. #47
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    I have spell absorb.......its mainly for beholder fighting, even if I dont really need it, can take the neg levels, kill the beholder and carry on.........I just have this hate of being neg leveled...........also other casters that cast neg level but I dont need the spell asorbtion for them, dw, from hire/clickies or friendly divine who might not cry about handing it out is more than good enough.
    your nonsense is strong. wanna see how good deathward SPELL (keyword) protect you against beholders.

  8. #48
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    your nonsense is strong. wanna see how good deathward SPELL (keyword) protect you against beholders.
    It does an amazing job.

    Just make sure the beholder dies.
    Fast.

  9. #49
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    It does an amazing job.

    Just make sure the beholder dies.
    Fast.
    Oh yeah, you are the guy that claim to kill anything in 2 hits or 3 if red on heroic elite.

    in that case, yeah! all good. WF are a waste.

  10. #50
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    your nonsense is strong. wanna see how good deathward SPELL (keyword) protect you against beholders.
    Spell absorption is good.

  11. #51
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    Oh yeah, you are the guy that claim to kill anything in 2 hits or 3 if red on heroic elite.

    in that case, yeah! all good. WF are a waste.
    Don't be silly.

    From level 15 (on elite), it's 4 hits for trash, 7 for orange named.
    For red named... Lots. That's all I have to say. Lots.

    Still think the game is too easy. (Most beholders I meet... 400-700 hp. 4-7 hits.)
    The only one that bothers me is Nurse Ratchet, but she has polar ray. I think. Oh well. Haven't died yet, so soldier onI shall.
    And yes, WF are a waste. Thanks for agreeing! (If I ever see you with a WF melee, I'm keeping your soul stone.)

  12. #52
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Don't be silly.

    From level 15 (on elite), it's 4 hits for trash, 7 for orange named.
    For red named... Lots. That's all I have to say. Lots.

    Still think the game is too easy. (Most beholders I meet... 400-700 hp. 4-7 hits.)
    The only one that bothers me is Nurse Ratchet, but she has polar ray. I think. Oh well. Haven't died yet, so soldier onI shall.
    And yes, WF are a waste. Thanks for agreeing! (If I ever see you with a WF melee, I'm keeping your soul stone.)
    i will be fine then. im planing to play a BF. i just feel so bad for anyone that didnt preordered Shadowfell and will be stuck forever in a lesser version (aka regular WF)

  13. #53
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    i will be fine then. im planing to play a BF. i just feel so bad for anyone that didnt preordered Shadowfell and will be stuck forever in a lesser version (aka regular WF)
    1) I own bladeforged. I don't use it. Still meh. Communion of scribing, while nice, still requires sp/spell power, invalidating any use on a melee, unless we resort to a pseudo juggernaut. (Might be viable with this "eldritch knight" enhancement.)

    2) I feel sorry for those who did pre order shadowfail. MoTU was better than shadowfail. Just buy any named loot you need imo.

    3) Have fun hitting dex reqs on that bladeforged.

  14. #54
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    1) I own bladeforged. I don't use it. Still meh. Communion of scribing, while nice, still requires sp/spell power, invalidating any use on a melee, unless we resort to a pseudo juggernaut. (Might be viable with this "eldritch knight" enhancement.)

    2) I feel sorry for those who did pre order shadowfail. MoTU was better than shadowfail. Just buy any named loot you need imo.

    3) Have fun hitting dex reqs on that bladeforged.
    1)
    Echos of power (can be picked by any class, it has no pre) give you 80 sp. FvS and Sorc was some sp (i seem 30 or 20 each) gs (100sp + 150sp) archimage 200 = 80+60+100+150+200 = 590. most sure i failed in some number (bad memory) but 600 sp at 35 sp x reconstruct its like 17 recon x shrine. pretty decent. If you splah to any caster class (cleric for wf or wiz for EK) its more sp (plus the chance to pick mental tougheness. I hace a 5 mage split with 15 melee levels and i ended with 1000 sp. Thats enuff for a regular run.
    2)
    I planned to pick shadowfell anyway, so everything i got from the preoder was "free". so dont matter if whats better or worse. if dont like a product, dont buy it. simple.
    3)
    Sure.. im on a THF build.. so really dont use dex (and at anyrate 6 starting + 2 build points on creation + tome +5 = 13, enuff for dodge)
    Last edited by Skavenaps; 10-16-2013 at 07:33 AM. Reason: maath fart

  15. #55
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    1)
    Echos of power (can be picked by any class, it has no pre) give you 80 sp. FvS and Sorc was some sp (i seem 30 or 20 each) gs (100sp + 150sp) archimage 200 = 80+60+100+150+200 = 590. most sure i failed in some number (bad memory) but 600 sp at 35 sp x reconstruct its like 17 recon x shrine. pretty decent. If you splah to any caster class (cleric for wf or wiz for EK) its more sp (plus the chance to pick mental tougheness. I hace a 5 mage split with 15 melee levels and i ended with 1000 sp. Thats enuff for a regular run.
    2)
    I planned to pick shadowfell anyway, so everything i got from the preoder was "free". so dont matter if whats better or worse. if dont like a product, dont buy it. simple.
    3)
    Sure.. im on a THF build.. so really dont use dex (and at anyrate 6 starting + 2 build points on creation + tome +5 = 13, enuff for dodge)
    1) GS is 150+150 (Wizardry VI, sp+50 and sp+100 from another bonus, I forget which.) *edit* also, archmagi doesn't stack with the bonus given by greensteel.
    So... Heard of hjealz scrolls and cocoon? :3

    2) Forgive me, O' Wise One, for not knowing what shadowfail was like before I pre-ordered it. As it turns out, some fun quests, some extremely annoying effects and no loot worth mentioning. Yup.

    3) Dodge? Welcome to the Furyshot era of DDO. Not having manyshot is arguably a cardinal sin.

  16. #56
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    1) GS is 150+150 (Wizardry VI, sp+50 and sp+100 from another bonus, I forget which.) *edit* also, archmagi doesn't stack with the bonus given by greensteel.
    So... Heard of hjealz scrolls and cocoon? :3

    2) Forgive me, O' Wise One, for not knowing what shadowfail was like before I pre-ordered it. As it turns out, some fun quests, some extremely annoying effects and no loot worth mentioning. Yup.

    3) Dodge? Welcome to the Furyshot era of DDO. Not having manyshot is arguably a cardinal sin.
    1) well 500 instead of 600 for a no caster toon its still good. why you mention scrolls? or Coccon? Any race, been WF or not can heal with them (but for me scroll just dont cut it) 15 reconstructs its still decent.
    2) im not saying its a smart thing.. but i own every pack. I was going to buy shadowfell. so i preorder. It was shorter on content compared with MotU, yes.
    3)Ranger says you hello.

  17. #57
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    1) well 500 instead of 600 for a no caster toon its still good. why you mention scrolls? or Coccon? Any race, been WF or not can heal with them (but for me scroll just dont cut it) 15 reconstructs its still decent.
    2) im not saying its a smart thing.. but i own every pack. I was going to buy shadowfell. so i preorder. It was shorter on content compared with MotU, yes.
    3)Ranger says you hello.
    1) a. I'm self healing for >440, level 12+ with heal scroll. I have no paladin PL's on this toon, no racial hamp.
    b. Cocoon is awesome, requires less sp, less gear and you have unlimited uses. (Though with some delay for echo's to hit 12 sp again.)

    2) Less content, terribad named loot, no raid and evil effects, causing more lag and headaches, sometimes making people sick. (I like my emphasis on shadowfail. Sorry.)

    3) Hi ranger. Meet juggernaut.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    3)Ranger says hello.
    You're not really bringing the Ranger class into this discussion are you?

    With the absolute hammering that Rangers took with the latest revision of their Enhancements, the pure Ranger AA that I've been working on for the last three years will soon be anything BUT Ranger. It's fine if you plan on going heavily into DWS or if you take no more than six levels for the Auto-Granted Feats, but for any other playstyle Rangers got a great big "**** You" from Turbine.

    I should also point out that Ranger (Beyond 6 levels for something like a Jugg) is perhaps the worst possible class to combine with WF.
    Last edited by Archangel_666; 10-16-2013 at 08:05 AM.

  19. #59
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    You're not really bringing the Ranger class into this discussion are you?

    With the absolute hammering that Rangers took with the latest revision of their Enhancements, the pure Ranger AA that I've been working on for the last three years will soon be anything BUT Ranger. It's fine if you plan on going heavily into DWS or if you take no more than six levels for the Auto-Granted Feats, but for any other playstyle Rangers got a great big "**** You" from Turbine.

    I should also point out that Ranger (Beyond 6 levels for something like a Jugg) is perhaps the worst possible class to combine with WF.
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  20. #60
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    AC is buggered for Warforged all around.

    First note that none of the body feats give AC anymore [that I know of].

    Compare:
    Flawless Black Dragonscale Armors:

    Robe: 10 AC
    Light Armor: 17
    Medium Armor: 26
    Heavy Armor: 32


    Composite (Ie, Robes): 0 AC
    Mithril (Ie, Light): 13 AC
    Adamantine (Ie, Heavy): 25 AC


    Also compare:
    [Max Dexterity Bonus]
    Black + Mithril Body: 5 (6 with Mithril Fluidity Feat- that's two feats total)
    Black Dragonhide (Light Armor): 19



    So, either I'm missing something major, or even IF the old inherent AC bonuses from Body feats still applied, all but Adamantine Body get royally borked in comparison to their fleshie counterparts.

    Nevermind how flat out awful they are if the bonuses aren't there.
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    Fly? That would break every quest in the game. You would see folks falling from the sky in Korthos and dying. It would be a rain of newbs.
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    Yeah. It's not "we nuked the city from orbit", it's "the city experienced a brief population drop". Check.

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