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  1. #21
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    May not have been due to players complaining, but due to the fact that the Dev's themselves did not want people to run the same 20 quests to the ground.

    After all, if you were around for the FW nerf, one of their reasons for nerfing FW was to inspire players to use other spells, for no other motive then because their team put time into making the graphics for those other spells. Same could hold true for quests, after all, if they went though the effort to make them, they may as well force you EXP grinders to run them.

  2. #22
    Community Member Avenging_Angel's Avatar
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    What used to be the optimal route before the change is not anymore. I don't know if the math guys on the forums have already figured it out.


    And man, SOMEONE here is really mad about the change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonulino View Post
    No matter what you post, there is always someone who responds with something like "Unless you are gimped, you should be able to do this with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back." It gets a little tiresome.

  3. #23
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    I just ran into the only time ransack has annoyed me since I started playing the game. I ran The Church and the Cult a bunch over the weekend, trying to get a Silver Longbow for one of my toons on Argo. The second round, I even found some kindly folks to run it with me. Sadly, the bow never dropped.

    This was a case of decreased chest rewards, though, not xp. I wasn't getting any xp.

    Numerous Bloodplates dropped, a couple of Shadow Cloaks, and one of the trinket (can't recall the name just now).

  4. #24
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Why on earth would anyone in the game complain that someone else was leveling too quickly?

    I really don't get that...
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

  5. #25
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    Why on earth would anyone in the game complain that someone else was leveling too quickly?

    I really don't get that...
    Easy. The faster people level, the faster they may leave. Unless they stick around for a while the nominal cash value of a fast leveling player is not that much. Slow them down a bit and they may buy a bit out of the store before they vanish. Basic economics.

    Also, this change also rendered having to figure out how to stop window farming exploit a mute point so they don't have to change quest completion/finishing mechanics to stop that exploit.

  6. #26
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenging_Angel View Post
    And man, SOMEONE here is really mad about the change.
    Some people really don't. Me, all it has done now is allowed me to level faster, actually.

  7. #27
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    This change was NOT made because people were complaining that other people were levelling too fast... that's just a silly argument to make.

    The change was because people were complaining that once they hit Epic levels, the good XP quests were ransacked (I'm Looking at you VON3), or if you weren't wise enough with your planning while trying to cap to 26, you might have run Rusted Blades/Death Undone too many times and it was virtually worthless to you once you capped.

    And with the raising of the level cap to 28, turbine knew it would get worse since you'd need to repeat more epic quests to get capped and stop the repeat penalty counter from increasing.

    that's the reason.. not because the supposed "daisy sniffers" were jealous of the "power gamers."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Also, this change also rendered having to figure out how to stop window farming exploit a mute point so they don't have to change quest completion/finishing mechanics to stop that exploit.
    Can it really be called an exploit when they specifically fixed it to continue working? (You couldn't do it in the early beta of MoTU, they changed it to allow window farming again)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Because people cried that others were farming and doing legend lives in 72 hours or less. It was a nerf to appease the jealous casuals of the playerbase.
    As just such a casual, I'd prefer to think of us as 'bemused' rather than 'jealous'. A bit more "Why would you want to?" than "How can you do that?"
    So, really nerfing you guys as a by-product of helping us? I can only apologise, we'd hardly even noticed you were there, same as vice-versa.
    Or perhaps this new system is a better balance between the two - so one game can, if not keep us both HAPPY, keep us both satisfied?
    Of course, if I ever manage to get as far as 3rd life in 72 weeks or less, I may start to lean more towards your thinking ;D

  10. #30
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    The change was also made to help people find partners for quests, help PUGs fill up faster. If you put up a PUG for, say, Delirium or Acid Wit before, odds are it would never fill because people were all just blitzing Litany and Vale quests ad nauseum. Now, people have an incentive to run a variety of quests rather than just the "best". That leads to more social interaction. I can tell you, as a soloist I've run way more groups since ransack, just because people join when I open an LFM, or post up LFMs for quests I'm looking to do.

    Yes, its a net negative for the subset of hardcore players who have dedicated full groups ready to run all content at all times at maximum efficiency. But DDO has to deliberately de-incentivize the hardest of hardcore players sometimes, keep a balance between hardcore-rewarding and casual-friendly. For casual players, Quest Ransack was a HUGE improvement, they gained much more than the leet grinders lost.

  11. #31
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Because people cried that others were farming and doing legend lives in 72 hours or less. It was a nerf to appease the jealous casuals of the playerbase.
    Maybe also they wanted to make sure those stones of TR of theirs would be as popular as possible?

  12. #32
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    Quest ransack = social engineering that at the same time fixes the old perma-XP penalty that I think predates even TR'ing and wasn't designed to account for end game repetition of epics. It fixes many problems from multiple angles. Those two are just the most onerous.

    3. Sure they want you to buy more quest packs, but also:
    4. They get lots of "I'm leaving, all the pugs are the same small selection of quests run 10 times in a row until my eyes bleed" exit surveys
    5. MOST PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO FARM, and love having an INCENTIVE to play varied content that REWARDS not repeating more than a tolerable E, H, N and maybe one more E.

    Farming has been stagnating the game into "absolute max XP/min" lowest common denominator forever that was helping even powergamers become bored of the game faster. and making it hard for "followers not leaders" types to find LFM's for content that wasn't the default "leveling farm" in that level range.

    being mad at "those damn casuals" for taking 10x farming away from you is like being mad at your mom for not letting you eat a whole box of cookies at once... You don't know whats best for you, and someone should probably have taken the cookies away long ago.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  13. #33
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The change was also made to help people find partners for quests, help PUGs fill up faster. If you put up a PUG for, say, Delirium or Acid Wit before, odds are it would never fill because people were all just blitzing Litany and Vale quests ad nauseum. Now, people have an incentive to run a variety of quests rather than just the "best".
    To fix a problem you should first understand it. Why people used to run, for example, litany so many times? Cause it's good xp/min compared to everything at that level.
    What's the easiest solution to make all quests appealing? Give all quests the same xp/min of litany, shadow crypt, von3 and the problem fixes itself without needing other changes. If every quest was the same xp/min people could choose to run whatever they like more instead of farming something 9 times cause even on the 9th run some quests are still better xp/min than others on their 1st elite run with BB.
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  14. #34
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    Can it really be called an exploit when they specifically fixed it to continue working? (You couldn't do it in the early beta of MoTU, they changed it to allow window farming again)
    Just because you can do something doesn't mean it was intended. So YES, it can really be called an exploit.

    If you couldn't in the early but later could,
    1. They had fixed it then broke it in typical Turbine fashion.
    2. Tried to fix it then discovered it broke other things in ways not intended and couldn't be fixed by launch time so revert the change.

  15. #35
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    just because theres a quest ransack now doesn't mean people aren't still farming quests. the farm runs have been cut in half except for the usual high xp/min quests like Von 3 and Shadow Crypt. as long as the xp/min is still worth it, people still farm but its making it so more quests are being run. this i like because its opening up more lfms and the zerg TR group i sometimes join doesn't bore me as much as it did before. its taken a bit of an adjustment for them but they are starting to get a rhythm going again. with the xp curve coming soon and the adjustments to quest xp, things should be even easier. the more incentive to run varied quests the better grouping could be and the better for Turbine to make some money with pack sales.

  16. #36
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    What's the easiest solution to make all quests appealing? Give all quests the same xp/min of litany, shadow crypt, von3 and the problem fixes itself without needing other changes. If every quest was the same xp/min people could choose to run whatever they like more instead of farming something 9 times cause even on the 9th run some quests are still better xp/min than others on their 1st elite run with BB.
    The xp/min obsessors would still find a way to knock 8 seconds off one of those quests that all have the same xp/min and then run that one over and over.

  17. #37
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Because people cried that others were farming and doing legend lives in 72 hours or less. It was a nerf to appease the jealous casuals of the playerbase.
    It was a huge buff for those of us that play one and done. It allows players the ability to run quests whenever we want and not "save" them. Yes, XP ransack happens faster, so you can't repeat a quest 10 times in a row, but you can play a fun quest 20 times over 40 days which you could not do before.

    It's a pretty decent trade-off.

    And no one asked for it that I know of... Pretty neat solution I think.

    As for the legend lives in 72 hours crowd?? HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!i
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #38
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    With the ransack leveling off at -80% base, Im still getting 12k out of ID every 90sec - 2min. Getting about the same 12k @ -80% base trying to farm BOB / TTT for epic ingredients.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #39
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    For those that think making people run more quests is good for pugging, for my part and I do post pugs quite a bit, it means that I'm zerging harder, and absolutely never coming back for others in those groups now because I have to complete poorer xp quests now. It has honestly made me put of groups that are less friendly than ever before.

    Also some of the quests that weren't run and weren't farmed are horribly designed quests that should be deleted from the game, that's right coyle I'm looking at you.

  20. #40
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    Why on earth would anyone in the game complain that someone else was leveling too quickly?

    I really don't get that...
    No one did... And that's not why they changed it...

    I didn't really care if people leveled in 2 days... I DID have snarky remarks for them when the morons came here and complained that they were bored. But I don't remember anyone asking Turbine to slow others down...

    Being ransacked forever was a real problem though with the level cap going up... I think the solution they came up with is pretty good... Real powergamers can still level very very fast, and the rest of us got huge buffs with this change... Basically a permanent 20% exp bonus.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 10-14-2013 at 08:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

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