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  1. #1
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Default So...um..traps on Wiz King...

    There I am in a group in the Sands, Wizard King on heroic elite, and we've got two trappers. Me, with a disable of 32, and the other trapper with a Disable of 34. So, I'm basically along for the ride.

    The other trapper? Blew almost every single trap box in the quest. They rolled 18 and 19, and the box STILL blows. Now, I understand that this is a fairly challenging quest under-level, but...um...not THAT challenging!

    Anyone else noticing this? Explanations as to why?

  2. #2
    Community Member Avenging_Angel's Avatar
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    inb4 "Elite traps are supposed to be instadeath, ramp them up" and "Any decent lv10 character with a rogue splash should have skills in the 50s"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonulino View Post
    No matter what you post, there is always someone who responds with something like "Unless you are gimped, you should be able to do this with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back." It gets a little tiresome.

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    There I am in a group in the Sands, Wizard King on heroic elite, and we've got two trappers. Me, with a disable of 32, and the other trapper with a Disable of 34. So, I'm basically along for the ride.

    The other trapper? Blew almost every single trap box in the quest. They rolled 18 and 19, and the box STILL blows. Now, I understand that this is a fairly challenging quest under-level, but...um...not THAT challenging!

    Anyone else noticing this? Explanations as to why?
    It's been a long time since I ran a trapper thru this, but I don't remember it being that bad. How far underlevel were you as the last time I ran a trapper thru it was probably around motu's release with an arti.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    There I am in a group in the Sands, Wizard King on heroic elite, and we've got two trappers. Me, with a disable of 32, and the other trapper with a Disable of 34.?
    Is that good? Feels low to me. If you're in there at 14 (max level for Bravery):

    17 Ranks
    7 Tools (EDIT: Thanks Parvan)
    5 Int (20 Int seems modest to me)
    13 Item (I think that's the right ML)
    4 Greater heroism
    --
    46

    That's just to start, pretty much the bare minimum amount any trapper of that level should have when attempting Elite at-level, no fancy additions like Skill Focus, Enhancements, or Past Lives.

    32 and 34 sound REALLY low to me. I don't think it's fair to half-ass something then complain that it doesn't work well enough in top-tier (for your level) content.
    Last edited by rimble; 10-14-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Paryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    Is that good? Feels low to me. If you're in there at 14:

    17 Ranks
    5 Tools
    5 Int (20 Int seems modest to me)
    13 Item (I think that's the right ML)
    4 Greater heroism
    --
    44

    32 and 34 sound REALLY low to me. I don't think it's fair to half-ass something then complain that it doesn't work well enough in top-tier (for your level) content.
    IIRC +5 tools add +7 to disable.....http://ddowiki.com/page/Thieves'_Tools
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  6. #6
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    You believe this guy had 34 disable? Did he tell you this?

    Perhaps he told you from memory. Perhaps he forgot to put on his disable gear and had the wrong thing equipped. It happens.

  7. #7
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelair View Post
    You believe this guy had 34 disable? Did he tell you this?

    Perhaps he told you from memory. Perhaps he forgot to put on his disable gear and had the wrong thing equipped. It happens.
    Yes, I believed them mainly because they did not have the right trapping gear on. When they finally got the right trapping gear, their disable was around that specific number: 44.

    I was lvl 12, and the quest on elite is lvl 14. I was able to disable 2 of the boxes (I blew one on a roll of 5). I knew I was under-level from the outset. However, I also ran OOB and Chains of Flame on elite, with a full group, and disable all of the traps and open all of the locks. So, I find the disparity between those two quests and the Wiz King I was on to be striking.

    I have no reason to doubt the rolls said player was reporting because, initially, they were getting 1s and 2s for seemingly all of their rolls. However, when they reported back that they blew the trap on an 18 and a 19 - not failed, but actually blew the box - that's when we noticed something was amiss.

    I believe the two traps that I did disarm had rolls in the mid-teens. Again, I disabled two of them, and blew one on a roll of 5. But I wasn't the one doing the disabling.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelair View Post
    You believe this guy had 34 disable? Did he tell you this?

    Perhaps he told you from memory. Perhaps he forgot to put on his disable gear and had the wrong thing equipped. It happens.
    Also a good point. Also worth knowing if they're quoting 'with tools' or without. That's a 7 point swing...maybe he had a 27 + 7 = 34 and OP had a 32 + 7 = 39 and OP should have been doing traps...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Yes, I believed them mainly because they did not have the right trapping gear on. When they finally got the right trapping gear, their disable was around that specific number: 44.
    Well, now I'm confused what he was rolling...44...34...? If he was throwing +44 and blowing things on a 19...definitely some stinky-poo going on somewhere with that...

  10. #10
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    It's been a long time since I ran a trapper thru this, but I don't remember it being that bad. How far underlevel were you as the last time I ran a trapper thru it was probably around motu's release with an arti.
    I honestly think that I was 1 level under to be competent, and I need a serious INT item (working with +2 and I am in the range now for +4, minimum). Hence, I wasn't going to rush in and pop the boxes when a trapper with a better base stat could so them. That changed, however, near the end when that trapper got seriously tired of blowing EVERY FRICKIN' BOX in the quest on the first try. Not some of them: ALL OF THEM.

    Ok, maybe I exaggerate a tad. They got 2 disabled overall, I believe. Everything else got blown up on the first try.

    At one point, near the end, they got so frustrated, that they backed off and just let me do them. I blew the first one, and then was able to pick the second one. I had a disable of 32 (as I mentioned) using +5 thief tools. By that time I had lost my buffs (it was an ugly run overall).

    But it wasn't "failure" that was the problem. it was they the boxes were being blown up, first try, almost every time when with rolls in the high-teens.

    And I have no doubt that the numbers were being reported accurately. I run with these people quite a bit. There is no posturing with these guys.

  11. #11
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    Well, now I'm confused what he was rolling...44...34...? If he was throwing +44 and blowing things on a 19...definitely some stinky-poo going on somewhere with that...
    They found their trapping gear after Wiz King. The rolls would have been 34+18 = 52 on one occasion. That was the big indicator that something was REALLY amiss.

    Mine, using the +5 tools, reported 32+5 = 37 on the box that I personally blew up. No mention of the +5 / +7 thieves tools bonus.

  12. #12
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    Also a good point. Also worth knowing if they're quoting 'with tools' or without. That's a 7 point swing...maybe he had a 27 + 7 = 34 and OP had a 32 + 7 = 39 and OP should have been doing traps...
    That is a good point. I should ask about the tools they were using.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    They found their trapping gear after Wiz King. The rolls would have been 34+18 = 52 on one occasion. That was the big indicator that something was REALLY amiss.
    So I think that means that one is a DC 57 at least. With an 'easy' minimum of 44 DD (at level), I think that puts it within no-blow-up range of a character that focused a little more into DD (or Int) or has Skill Boosts or other goodies. I'm not sure if I'd call it completely unreasonable that a somewhat Trap boosted character is needed to get traps in Wiz-King Elite (specifically 'to get traps', you don't need one, at all, to complete). That seems reasonable to me--of course, assuming it wasn't much higher than that 57, we don't know.

    With that minimum 44 and a little extra something from your party...Bard, Light Monk...maybe a self skill-boost...you would at least have been in the 50/50 range, with only like a 15-20% chance of blow up...but of course you also took on additional difficulty being two levels down.
    Last edited by rimble; 10-14-2013 at 12:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I don't remember exactly what my disable was, but my 8 pally/6 rogue at the time last life had a DD right around low 30s. When I ran Wiz King, I only blew one box because I forgot to switch to my Int item before disabling. Didn't have GH, just ship buffs and my rolls weren't always high. Maybe the guy didn't have all his trapper gear on?

  15. #15
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    So I think that means that one is a DC 57 at least. With an 'easy' minimum of 44 DD (at level), I think that puts it within no-blow-up range of a character that focused a little more into DD (or Int) or has Skill Boosts or other goodies. I'm not sure if I'd call it completely unreasonable that a somewhat Trap boosted character is needed to get traps in Wiz-King Elite (specifically 'to get traps', you don't need one, at all, to complete). That seems reasonable to me--of course, assuming it wasn't much higher than that 57, we don't know.

    With that minimum 44 and a little extra something from your party...Bard, Light Monk...maybe a self skill-boost...you would at least have been in the 50/50 range, with only like a 15-20% chance of blow up...but of course you also took on additional difficulty being two levels down.

    First – and I want to clear this up – it wasn’t me blowing all of the traps. I didn’t take up trapping until the other trapper got infuriated that they were blowing every trap in the place with high rolls. I didn’t start trapping in Wiz King until near the end of the quest. And with that (only about 4 traps total on my end), I was 75% effective.

    Second, the one trap that did blow – again, I wasn’t the one disabling it, but the other rogue with a disable in the 34 range - was on a total roll in the 50s. You mean to tell me that on heroic elite Wiz King, disables in the 50s will blow the trap? That’s insane.

    Third, Chains of Flame is also a lvl 12 quest. When I ran that quest, on heroic elite, with the same group, with the same disable score of 32, I had no failure and no blown boxes.

    So, it’s clear to me that a discrepancy exists. I’m just trying to figure out exactly why, and if anyone else is seeing it.

  16. #16
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    There may be something going on with the box dc's varying, but I just started an arti life, and playing this afternoon I noticed my dd roll was x+30 at level 4. Now I'm an arti so I have high int, but I don't have great trapping gear just a +5 set of gloves at this point and a +1 int item that I looted. With that being the case I almost wonder if some of the boxes are set too low now.

  17. #17
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I think the 30ish may be low for streak-elite in that level range. I've got a level 14 trapper type and her disable is significantly above that with moderate twinkage.

    I also know some are set to higher amounts - I blew a few last life on a different char when I forgot to put on the gear, etc.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  18. #18
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    every elite trap box are way too high. especially for new player. it seem they expect you to have everything that possibly have to do trap.. which is not the case for most of the people..

    p.s. if you don't do craft it is very hard to get these all.. especially good luck +2 before 20.

  19. #19
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    The wiki lists ranges of trap DCs where people have tested them. The page lists low 50s as the upper limit for CoF and WK, though it could be lower since it's hard to test ranges... once you've disabled, you can't sit there and retest it.

    My personal experience is that max skill points and appropriate gear will get 99% of the traps in the game.

    At 14, I would typically have close to 52 disable device:
    Code:
    skill base                      = 17
    int (16 base + 2 tome + 6 item) =  7
    GH                              =  4
    item                            = 15
    good luck                      =  2
    tools                           =  7
    The only times I blow up a box are when I forget to swap items, or it's one of the known super-hard traps (VoN 4 force trap at shrine, Cabal trap, the ice quest in Necro 3).
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    Getting Past Traps without Trap Skills | Musical Musings

  20. #20
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I think the 30ish may be low for streak-elite in that level range. I've got a level 14 trapper type and her disable is significantly above that with moderate twinkage.

    I also know some are set to higher amounts - I blew a few last life on a different char when I forgot to put on the gear, etc.
    I don't think I can count how many boxes i blew up from not having my gear on during the instant disable bug period of time.

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