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Thread: Agents of STORM

  1. #181
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Default A really bad rule change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post

    I'm not sure what I'm thinking really. I just have an issue with Raise Dead and Rez being a free pass, while Deacon and myself won't have that option until someone can UMD a scroll, which is a long way off. Maybe it's the price you pay for being the Cleric, but it's still somehow not balanced for everyone when one class does not get the full choice of death options. I am open for suggestions or barring that, willing to let it ride as is.
    I was thinking the same thing. I was going to write that if you are raised by a party member, you have to give your highest ML item to the one who raised you and that person can sell it and use the proceeds to buy an item of their own choice in the AH or the brokers BUT that's not what is actually in the rules.
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  2. #182
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Hey are we allowing cookies from the coin turn-ins to be used while questing?

    It's basically just a seasonal collectible. It could add a little fun to our sessions. And it isn't like anyone can collect very many of them since we only open a few chests a week.
    I *think* the rules on post #1 of this thread says we can turn in collectibles for potions (and other consumables). So, I expect that would include the coins.

    Speaking of which, we might want to have a massing collectibles trade to help those who are shooting for an augment get enough to turn in. Or were the augments on the no-no list? Someone go check, please.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  3. #183
    Community Member DrowsworD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    I *think* the rules on post #1 of this thread says we can turn in collectibles for potions (and other consumables). So, I expect that would include the coins.

    Speaking of which, we might want to have a massing collectibles trade to help those who are shooting for an augment get enough to turn in. Or were the augments on the no-no list? Someone go check, please.
    I think anything you can buy with collectibles is okay. I have been trading for pots all game.

    Braxyn

  4. #184
    Community Member DrowsworD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. I was going to write that if you are raised by a party member, you have to give your highest ML item to the one who raised you and that person can sell it and use the proceeds to buy an item of their own choice in the AH or the brokers BUT that's not what is actually in the rules.
    Braxyn is in the same predicament as others; very poor gear due to low number of chest pulls. Some members are keeping a high ML, but unusable to them, items in their pack to destroy in case of death, so they do not have to destroy an item they actually use. To me this is skirting the rules. The item you destroy should be the highest ML item you have equipped, not some piece of junk in your pack.

    The whole idea of a death penalty is to make you aware that dieing has a consequence and you should play carefully. This coming from the one who died twice to traps Sunday because I was shadowing the rogue to closely and the rogue's spot wasn't working very well. I should have learned the first time to stay well back. I didn't and paid the price of a +4 int item; my best.

    I don't know a solution to the problem of raise and rez not being available to clerics. Having the group purchase RD scrolls for this occasion is one step, but someone must have the UMD to use them. Donating a Siberys cake, if someone gets one, to the cleric would be a better solution, but those are hard to get. Maybe we can pool coins and get a few.

    Braxyn

  5. #185
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. I was going to write that if you are raised by a party member, you have to give your highest ML item to the one who raised you and that person can sell it and use the proceeds to buy an item of their own choice in the AH or the brokers BUT that's not what is actually in the rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrowsworD View Post
    The item you destroy should be the highest ML item you have equipped, not some piece of junk in your pack.

    The whole idea of a death penalty is to make you aware that dieing has a consequence and you should play carefully.

    I agree with everyone in the thread that players should be sacrificing an item that was actually equipped when at the time of death. It's subjective to say what a player's 'best item' is, so for simplicity's sake I think following Drows suggestion of it being the highest ML item would be fine.


    I'm not thrilled about the idea of the raised player giving an item to the cleric/bard/whomever did raised them. It isn't like there is an actual cost to the cleric for casting the raise spell. If the purpose of the penalty to is to reinforce that the dead player play more carefully, I have a couple of suggestions:


    1- require elimination of an equipped item every time a player dies, regardless of how the player is returned to life (shrine, spell, or item), unless the player chooses to release and forgo the completion and xp.


    2- require a 'donation' to the cleric's church of 500pp/character level that would actually go to the guild ship fund. The cleric would collect it on the spot and then pay the guild ship vendor at the end of the night.


    Personally I'm not in favor of penalizing anyone if they can be raised via spell/scroll/item during the quest. We aren't playing PD and I don't think we should get too heavy handed with the rules or we risk getting lost in Intruder territory. I also haven't been in any groups yet where someone has died so frequently that it bothered me or that I think it was a chronic problem.


    So if we really want a token penalty, I'd be in favor of option two. Either way, I don't plan on dying much.

  6. #186
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    Shuvall is cursed with crappy loot luck.

    Just be glad Shuvall was with Dallog the last couple of groups. I think Dallog is 4-9 on chest rolls over the last two sessions he played.

  7. #187
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I agree with everyone in the thread that players should be sacrificing an item that was actually equipped when at the time of death. It's subjective to say what a player's 'best item' is, so for simplicity's sake I think following Drows suggestion of it being the highest ML item would be fine.


    I'm not thrilled about the idea of the raised player giving an item to the cleric/bard/whomever did raised them. It isn't like there is an actual cost to the cleric for casting the raise spell. If the purpose of the penalty to is to reinforce that the dead player play more carefully, I have a couple of suggestions:


    1- require elimination of an equipped item every time a player dies, regardless of how the player is returned to life (shrine, spell, or item), unless the player chooses to release and forgo the completion and xp.


    2- require a 'donation' to the cleric's church of 500pp/character level that would actually go to the guild ship fund. The cleric would collect it on the spot and then pay the guild ship vendor at the end of the night.


    Personally I'm not in favor of penalizing anyone if they can be raised via spell/scroll/item during the quest. We aren't playing PD and I don't think we should get too heavy handed with the rules or we risk getting lost in Intruder territory. I also haven't been in any groups yet where someone has died so frequently that it bothered me or that I think it was a chronic problem.


    So if we really want a token penalty, I'd be in favor of option two. Either way, I don't plan on dying much.
    I don't have enough plat to pay for the donation in option 2 and certainly not twice. If I remember correctly I have somewhere between 3kpp and 4.5kpp and am saving for a medium collectable bag. 500pp/level would be fine if we opened every chest but we aren't getting enough plat to cover raises like that.
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  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    "Intruder territory"?
    "Smile when you say that pardner!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    a "token" penalty .......
    isn't really a penalty.........is it?

  9. #189
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. I was going to write that if you are raised by a party member, you have to give your highest ML item to the one who raised you and that person can sell it and use the proceeds to buy an item of their own choice in the AH or the brokers BUT that's not what is actually in the rules.
    I think that may be a little extreme. I don't want anyone to resent the fact that they get rezzed in quest.

    I think I'm willing to let it ride as is for now. If anyone does come up with a better idea, please chime in.

    Now regarding the current death rules. There is no "holding a placeholder item" in the event of death. It is simply destroy the highest ML item you have "equipped". Equipped is defined as currently on your character or being used by at time of death. I was under the assumption that rule was very clear from the get go. Zefjoe never meant for anyone to have surplus items sitting in inventory as death tokens. Unless you destroy the highest ML item you have equipped, it really isn't a penalty.

    Is anyone not following this rule?

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post

    Now regarding the current death rules. There is no "holding a placeholder item" in the event of death. It is simply destroy the highest ML item you have "equipped". Equipped is defined as currently on your character or being used by at time of death. I was under the assumption that rule was very clear from the get go. Zefjoe never meant for anyone to have surplus items sitting in inventory as death tokens. Unless you destroy the highest ML item you have equipped, it really isn't a penalty.

    Is anyone not following this rule?

    I'm not. But then I haven't died yet so it hasn't been an issue.

  11. #191
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    Smile death and consequences

    Just going to add 2 pennies here.

    1. I do not mind losing an item if I cannot be rezzed. I am a cleric, but that does not keep others from playing a cleric. There just so happens to only be two of us, so it seems to go one per group. If others cannot rez, this is a choice I have made to take on my part, just as they have on their part. It is all fine with me. There are other options for rezing (another Cleric, Paladin (4th core SD), UMD, racial). If it still feels unfair, require a 9+ cleric to take the rez spell, but allow him one free rez shrine use (call it devine intervention).

    2. I feel if you have been rezzed by someone (Cleric, Paladin (4th core SD), UMD, racial) that there is no penalty. It is part of ones skills/abilities/powers. This is why im a cleric (why someone took the racial, why the paladin went SD, etc.).

    3. Losing an Item from the backpack. I feel that this is allowed by the rules and the intent. The statement is "The fallen destroy the highest ML item in possession after Release." Not "equipped." I see it this way. The first pack is our swap pack. Those items count against our total ML allowed. They are items we may or may not need in our adventure. For example, Deacon is level 6, he can have 18 MLs of items. He has (ItemML) Equipped: Armor 6, neck 3, bauble 1,bracers 1,sword 2. Pack: scepter 4, neck 1. That is 18 MLs of items I need to be as helpful in the groups as possible. If I were to hold an item in my Pack to save my armor (ML6) what 6 levels of items would I NOT be using (that means not equipped nor in my Pack) in order to place a useless ML6 item in my Pack? What if my armor were ML4? I would have to not use an ML2 item to keep a useless ML4 item in the Pack? Who would waist space carrying a useless high ML item in their pack? Main point: It is in your Pack or equipped. It counts against your Max ML. If you wish to carry a useless Item that counts against your ML (thus lessens your chance (and party chance?) to survive) then I say go for it.

    4. Personal note. Cleric (not healbot). Do not say "can I have a heal" If I think your hps are low enough to use the sp, then I would have already healed you or I am in the middle of casting a heal (on you or possibly on someone in more need than you). Armor, weapon, buffs, heals, hps. DnD did not make Clerics as healbots (healers) only. Not sure about Shuvall, but think of DeaconBlues more as a Paladin if it helps the vision on his/my play style.

    5. Have fun. Keep smiling.

    6. Oh ya, Bacon!!!

  12. #192
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    Default Stormsong Leaving

    I am leaving the group with Stormsong d'Lyrandar. I had fun playing but the loot rules are just getting really annoying and I'm not having as much fun any more.
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  13. #193
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Book_O_Dragons View Post
    I am leaving the group with Stormsong d'Lyrandar. I had fun playing but the loot rules are just getting really annoying and I'm not having as much fun any more.

    can't say that I blame you. Same reason I left the last storm group.


    Maybe it is time to revisit the whole ML thing? We're already roll for loot and have equipment limits. Do we really need ML restrictions on gear as well?

  14. #194
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Default The Adventure Awaits

    We started down the fun of Tangleroot Gorge last week. My group got the first 3 quests done. So, I'm thinking we run Whisperdoom's Spawn. Meet back at the One-Eared Bugbear and if we think there is time, go after the Deadly Package pair of quests.

    If you don't like that plan. I want to run the Devil Assault.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  15. #195
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post

    Maybe it is time to revisit the whole ML thing? We're already roll for loot and have equipment limits. Do we really need ML restrictions on gear as well?
    I'd be willing to open this up for discussion as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying the groups and having fun, but another pass at the rules wouldn't hurt.

  16. #196
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    We started down the fun of Tangleroot Gorge last week. My group got the first 3 quests done. So, I'm thinking we run Whisperdoom's Spawn. Meet back at the One-Eared Bugbear and if we think there is time, go after the Deadly Package pair of quests.

    If you don't like that plan. I want to run the Devil Assault.
    I'm all for Devil Assault.

    Bring it...........

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    Dak will be away for 2 weeks, having been forcefully dragged off to another plane (or perhaps ON a plane would be more accurate...)

    But I should be back for the 29th.

  18. #198
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Default debates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    I'd be willing to open this up for discussion as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying the groups and having fun, but another pass at the rules wouldn't hurt.
    Zefjoe setup the rules but is now unable to take the lead in this group. So, I am open to a group discussion/decision for rule modifications. My personal opinion is that we need near universal agreement on changing any rule. Of course we don't have a rule for changing the rules, so that too is debatable.

    I'm about to log in. Anyone who is in early, please let's talk.

    On the ML limits for equipped items I'm largely indifferent. I haven't had issues but I do have a bank full of stuff I can't use.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  19. #199
    Community Member DrowsworD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    We started down the fun of Tangleroot Gorge last week. My group got the first 3 quests done. So, I'm thinking we run Whisperdoom's Spawn. Meet back at the One-Eared Bugbear and if we think there is time, go after the Deadly Package pair of quests.

    If you don't like that plan. I want to run the Devil Assault.
    Braxyn will not be able to join in tonight. May not be back home till after 9PM.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    can't say that I blame you. Same reason I left the last storm group.


    Maybe it is time to revisit the whole ML thing? We're already roll for loot and have equipment limits. Do we really need ML restrictions on gear as well?
    The ML thing is still fine at the levels we are at but I foresee a time with at most 4-5 good items per player equipped + a few items at ML 1-4 that people managed to hold on to since low levels.

    The bigger problem is not getting enough loot. The ML restriction with the death penalty is enough to challenge people but the limit on opening chests is masochism.
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