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Thread: Khorvaire

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    Community Member DiamondPrinceJC's Avatar
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    Question Khorvaire

    I dont know if this has been brought up before but since DDO is expanding into Forgotten Realms, why not expand into the main continent of Khorvaire too?!
    That way players have the choice to stick with Eberron material or ship out to Comyr. It would be interesting to eventually grow the game into starting in either realm, Stormreach or Eveningstar and follow lines that way too.

    Any suggestions for the Devs to expand upon a Khorvaire expansion pack?

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    Community Member DiamondPrinceJC's Avatar
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    The City of Sharn itself could be an expansion pack. Piggyback more onto the Lordsmarch series and head to Droaam. Possibly roll out gnomes as a next race. Explore Mournland. Cleanse the undead from Korth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondPrinceJC View Post
    The City of Sharn itself could be an expansion pack. Piggyback more onto the Lordsmarch series and head to Droaam. Possibly roll out gnomes as a next race. Explore Mournland. Cleanse the undead from Korth.
    Tell me why I can't stop agreeing with this proposal. Just...tell me.

    Perhaps it's because I feel the developers are focusing too much on the Forgotten Realms, and I for once would like to see a bit more Eberron. Sharn, Flamekeep and Rekkenmark should be interesting locales to see, and the Lightning Rail could be an excellent way to transport between areas (including the occasional battle instance, because that's pretty much typical on an Eberron game).

    Also, I agree with gnomes-as-next-race. The PHB races should complete, and I for once love the fluff behind the Zil gnomes. Looking at Korranberg should be interesting.

    From what I can see, there's five good expansion packs there: Sharn, Flamekeep, Rekkenmark/Korth, Korranberg and perhaps Rhukaan Draal, the capital of Darguun (and a chance to see Dhakaani architecture, and get Dhakaani artifacts, maybe a fight with the Lhesh Haruuc). Could even be alternate expansion packs (one FR, one Eberron, with the next expansion pack coming definitely being an Eberron one).

    Oh, and let's not forget Sarlona. Or Argonessen. Honestly; Eberron is only 13.33% explored, IMHO.

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    Community Member DiamondPrinceJC's Avatar
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    Amen to that. I think they jumped to FR way too early.

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    Yes yes and yes I don't think they should ever gone to FR but WOTC probably wanted them to plus some people here who love the most boring setting ever. The city of Sharn would be one the most interesting things they could ever add.

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    Community Member Tocawe's Avatar
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    I have a bad, bad feeling Eberron is DEAD.

    We have had a total of 0 new quests and 1 new raid since March 2012, and it seems like both update 20 and 21 will be FR content.

    But I agree, an expansion set in Sharn would hopefully have given the Eberron setting some of the justice it deserves. Something DDO never really managed to do in Xen'drik.

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    Community Member DiamondPrinceJC's Avatar
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    I hope Ebberon is not dead. The Devs have ways to build on both Ebberon and FR. I have faith that they are headed that direction with the introduction of the Hall of Heroes or whatever its called that warps back and forth between the two. I just hope they keep with it. DDO has been in the top 15 MMORPGs for the last few years. So I would like to think they still have a good player base and recruiting Newbies every day.
    My fingers are crossed, I am anxious to see what the future Updates will bring.
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    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Neverwinter Online (despite being ****) scared the WB execs and for some reason their solution was to copy them by moving to FR and the thing is they likely had a massive plan and I doubt Turbine is allowed to deviate much, so yeah I have a feeling while we MAY not have seen the last of Eberron its likely going to be a LONG time before they leave the Generic Realms...so you can look forward to being overshadowed by the "real" heroes from the realms while you do all the actual work.

    Eberron was a HUGE reason I started playing DDO, the active combat and highly flexible multi-classing system are the reasons I stayed but the insistence on moving to FR is really testing my patience. I mean I'm running the quests but only because I've already ruun everything else...,y choices are continually run old content or bite the bullet and play FR.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-20-2013 at 01:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tocawe View Post
    I have a bad, bad feeling Eberron is DEAD.

    We have had a total of 0 new quests and 1 new raid since March 2012, and it seems like both update 20 and 21 will be FR content.

    But I agree, an expansion set in Sharn would hopefully have given the Eberron setting some of the justice it deserves. Something DDO never really managed to do in Xen'drik.
    Update 20 includes a new Eberron quest in House C.
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    I'm willing to give them 3 updates in a row focused on FR, I think....MotU was the shiny new toy, and then Druid's Deep and Netherese let them flesh it out a bit. Gianthold I'm not counting as new Eberron content, for obvious reasons. Then back to FR for two more? That was a bit too much.

    Theres so much lore left to explore just building on what we already had in Eberron. There's no reason they have to have an entire second mythos and history in FR for players to learn, that has absolutely nothing to do with what they've already been doing in Eberron. Its almost like you hit 20, and you're playing a completely different game with a different plot and no overlap, like you just ported your DDO char into DDO2.

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    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    I 100% enjoy the Forgotten Realms contents because they're simply beautiful and nails the D&D theme perfectly, but I would like to get Eberron expansion packs on Droaam and especially Sharn. I couldn't care less for the rest of Eberron though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    I 100% enjoy the Forgotten Realms contents because they're simply beautiful and nails the D&D theme perfectly, but I would like to get Eberron expansion packs on Droaam and especially Sharn. I couldn't care less for the rest of Eberron though.
    Forgive me if I sound a bit petulant, but...what exactly IS the D&D flavor?

    It's great that you enjoy the Forgotten Realms, but you need to understand that the game was designed with Eberron in mind. Most of us (and in this case, I include) entered because it was developed in Eberron. To us, this brutal shift to the Forgotten Realms isn't very fun, and worse; it means we might not see much of Eberron.

    The reason I question that bit of "D&D flavor" is because everyone's tastes are not the same. I love Eberron mostly because it's the setting I've played the most, and it allows for the kinds of campaigns I like to play; I totally dig the Warforged, the Magitek, the Last War, Soviet Karrnath, the Vatican feel of Thrane, the Druid sects of the Forgotten Realms, the unexplored jungles of Xen'drik, the fact that monsters are as important as humanoids in the world (compare Droaam and Darguun, and to an extent Q'barra and Argonessen, to...the territory Obould Many-Arrows dominates. And Obould's orcs are almost completely evil; in Eberron, that's not necessarily the case), the ambiguity of religion (I totally dig the Silver Flame; I abhor the notion of the Wall of the Faithless), and many, many others. Conversely, there's mostly one thing I loathe of Faerun, and that's the Epic NPCs that beg the question "why they don't solve things on their own?" (despite the answer "because they're locked with Epic Villainous NPCs in a Cold War"). I don't like Drizzt, I don't like Elminster, and I can't dig the notion of a "Chosen of a Deity"; in fact, the only deity I find interesting aside from the Trio is Milil, for goodness sakes! To me, the flavor I like of D&D is Eberron, perhaps with a dash of Spelljammer, because I like to add some sci-fi into my D&D.

    Perhaps your flavor is "high fantasy", and that's great; however, I would like to see a bit more of the world I like, perhaps achieving a balance. Consider that there's at least one person playing the game that fulfills one of the following:
    1. Loves Eberron, hates Faerun
    2. Loves Faerun, hates Eberron
    3. Loves Faerun AND Eberron; would like to see more
    4. Hates Faerun AND Eberron, would like to see another setting.


    The last one is probably a minority, but the first one is significant. Between the second and the third, you may find a clear majority than the first or the last (or the two combined), but this isn't an excuse to cater to those two people and not at least attempt to cater to the ones in the sidelines (honestly; with the way Ravenloft is defined, they could make an expansion or two with it; another could be Planescape, as Sigil IS the Epic city by excellence, bar none). That way, everybody can be happy, and you could see different worlds while still have one or two hub worlds.

    There's another thing I don't like with this shift, and it's the most worrisome: note that ALL adventures in Faerun are high level (around 15 or above). This is worrisome because it suggests that Eberron heroes are weaker than Faerun ones. Consider that, going by the Iconics, only ONE Iconic is from Eberron; the other three are from Faerun. These are 15th level heroes, but in Faerun, they might probably be chump change. This is completely unhealthy, because while Eberron was designed to be a low-power world to some extent (there are powerful NPCs around like Erandis d'Vol and the Great Druid Oelian, but most of the movers and shakers are around 10th level or so; Boranel, Kaius, Jaela, High Cardinal Krozen, the Daughters of Sora Kell, the tabletop version of the Lord of Blades, etc.), it suggests that Eberron inhabitants are less than worthwhile compared to Faerun ones. That's, IMO, perhaps unintended "racism" (for lack of a better word; it's definitely unintended prejudice, at best) towards inhabitants of one setting.

    Also: consider that some things in Eberron are ALSO on the Forgotten Realms. Both are high-magic worlds (it's just that Eberron goes the way of Magitek, while Faerun goes the way of Pure High Magic), both worlds have Airships (Eberron uses Lyrandar Airships, Faerun uses Skyships), both worlds have Psionics (Eberron treats Psionics as the realm of Dal Quor and Xoriat; Faerun knows it as "the Art")... There are some flavor things that are very similar in both worlds, so it boils down to the words that define the setting: Eberron is "Dungeonpunk", Faerun/FR is "High Fantasy".

    ...and this is where I sound petulant, because I'm irked by the mere suggestion that one setting is best than another because of some sort of purity. I presume that's not your case (you simply like the flavor of one compared to other; Eberron CAN be played like that, since Aundair and Breland contain many aspects of high magic, high fantasy worlds), but the suggestion is there (why Faerun is more "beautiful" than Eberron, and hence fits "D&D's flavor", as if there was only one kind of flavor?). I limit myself to request more Eberron content because it was the source content of the game and it's almost completely unexplored (much like Faerun is unexplored), but I don't like to suggest that "Eberron's bold take on Dungeons & Dragons makes it the best setting for its MMO version". I understand that most people like less Magitek, more "high fantasy worlds", so I have no take on that discussion; what I can complain, though, is that the direction the developers are taking in terms of the new content is leaving Eberron so relegated, that by the time I reach Epic levels, I'll have to drop out because I might not find Faerun to my taste (and considering the changes to Hearts of Wood, chances are I might not be capable of TRing at all, given how there's no Sagas for Epic Eberron content other than Gianthold, which I currently lack).

    So, while I can't control that the developers are expanding into Faerun, I'd like for them to respect those who like Eberron, and if they eventually suggest allowing characters to enter another continent of Faerun and allow players to explore it, I'd like for them to do the same for Eberron (and what best than Khorvaire, a continent that, IMO, has more diversity by square mile than Faerun has in one of its own, and potentially even two).

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    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoskar View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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    There isn't much for me to say honestly that hasn't already been said (Especially by TGOskar) but I do wish to express that I as well would love to see Eberron get a little more love again. As much as I am not fond of FR I understand that it's the direction they've taken. I do wish they'd strike a balance between Eberron and FR though. As some have stated, the Eberron setting is a large reason for which I chose to play this game in the first place. There is such a wealth of possible content that I wonder sometimes as to why they took such a huge step away from it in the first place.

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    Intergalactic Space Crusader Livmo's Avatar
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    Default More Sharn!

    Mo Sharn!

    I like the idea of alternating expansions, one Eberron then the next Forgotten Realms, etc.

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    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    DDO's rendition of the generic fantasy setting in FR is actually really unique and colorful. Not even LotRO has a setting this well executed. There's no other game I could go to if I wanted this experience.

    Of course, the same goes for Eberron, but save for a couple extra locales that we just NEED to have (you can't go down in history as the only MMO set in Eberron and NOT include freaking Sharn, I mean come on...), I think we got enough of the Eberron realm for one game.

    Also, TGOskar, please don't get the idea that I don't like Eberron. I think the setting is awesome, it's just that we simply don't need to delve that much deeper into it anymore, despite having only really explored one continent. Expansion packs in Eberron have diminishing returns at this point, because we've already met and learned about most factions worth meeting, and we already understand all of the world's lore, so you really only have the "new locale" aspect going for them.
    Last edited by TekkenDevil; 10-25-2013 at 05:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    DDO's rendition of the generic fantasy setting in FR is actually really unique and colorful. Not even LotRO has a setting this well executed. There's no other game I could go to if I wanted this experience.

    Of course, the same goes for Eberron, but save for a couple extra locales that we just NEED to have (you can't go down in history as the only MMO set in Eberron and NOT include freaking Sharn, I mean come on...), I think we got enough of the Eberron realm for one game.

    Also, TGOskar, please don't get the idea that I don't like Eberron. I think the setting is awesome, it's just that we simply don't need to delve that much deeper into it anymore, despite having only really explored one continent. Expansion packs in Eberron have diminishing returns at this point, because we've already met and learned about most factions worth meeting, and we already understand all of the world's lore, so you really only have the "new locale" aspect going for them.
    I mentioned I was irked by the suggestion, not the affirmation of it. But, it's good that you cleared that out.

    That said: I still believe there is much to explore on Eberron. This might seem like grasping on straws, but there's still four Druid sects that haven't been mentioned in detail. At the first expansion (coincidentally, when the game began its shift towards Faerun), the only Druid sect mentioned were the Gatekeepers, who are exactly as their name imply. There's also the Wardens of the Wood, which are your mostly typical druid except with an inclination towards good (in many ways, they're akin to a druid that follows Ehlonna, the NG Greyhawk goddess of the hunt); the Ashbound, who are your extremist druids (and abhor arcane magic the most); the Children of Winter (an apocalyptic sect that believe that the upcoming Age will be the end of Eberron, and actively seek to hasten it), and the Greensingers (druids with strong ties to the fey). Druids hold no distinction between sects, and it's a shame that they lack the Initiate feats for it. That's just one bit of Eberron lore that's missing.

    Another? The monastery of Adar, in Sarlona. The Inspired are the most obvious, as they dominate all of Riedra (which is by itself more than half of Sarlona's territory), but there's little to no mention of Adar, or the kalashtar themselves. I'd love for once to see Psionics in-game (I feel that Psion will be difficult, but Soulknife could work if adapted to the Monk chassis; with that, you can add the Kalashtar, some locales in Sarlona, and you get one expansion waiting to be made). The history of the kingdoms of Sarlona before the age of the Inspired is pretty interesting, considering it's a catalyst for the Age of Mortals.

    One more? It's a shame that there's virtually no goblins of interest. The Dhakaani empire is very, very, VERY important to the setting, because most of the artifacts of the tabletop version related to weapons and armor are Dhakaani artifacts. An update with Darguun-related quests could be quite interesting.

    Still want more? I may not have played a lot, but I've yet to see a gnome. I would prefer a thousand times... ten thousand, or even a hundred thousand times the lore of Zil gnomes than the tinker gnomes of Krynn. The take of Eberron regarding gnomes is very, very interesting; Faerun's gnomes are...at the best, hardly noticeable. Even on Krynn you barely see a heroic gnome. At least on Eberron they get a whole house for themselves (Sivis), an important palace of knowledge (the Library of Korranberg) and the coolest fluff ever (go to Google and look for "Gnome Corliganos". They are darkly hilarious.)

    Even a quest line that ends with PCs fighting none other than Erandis d'Vol, and maybe...I dunno, give information about the 13th Mark, the 13th Moon and the Lost House of Vol, or a visit to Karrnath that ends up with you fighting Kaius III (and how the developers will handle Karrnath)... That's a lot of lore yet unrevealed. Trust me when I say there's still a lot of Eberron lore to be defined. Not all of the power players in Eberron have been revealed yet, so it's not merely new locales, but something else.

    Even what's already revealed is only barely scratched. There's a big difference between a vanilla halfling and a Talenta halfling (as much as the difference between vanilla halflings and the Hin of Luiren, if not more), for example. There's still several races that haven't been released (of all the races of Eberron, you only have the Warforged; the Shadar-Kai aren't part of Eberron OR Faerun, or even the 3.5 Edition of the game, for goodness sakes!), as well.

    In short; saying that we've seen all that Eberron offers is ignorant at best. Eberron, being the newest setting, isn't as developed as the Forgotten Realms, and is deliberately shorter than Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms (which have existed for very long), but it still has lots of unexplored lore. Try to look at it from the other side. What if, instead of Eberron, DDO was based on the Forgotten Realms, and the developers had barely finished with Faerun before switching to Eberron? The big players were constantly shown: Elminster, Drizzt and his companions (and his opponents, such as Artemis and Jarlaxle), the Simbul, Storm Silverhand (and the remaining Seven Sisters), Manshoon, Szass Tam, Obould, Lolth...and when the players believe that they'll finally shift to, say, Rashemen or Luiren, all of a sudden they shift into Eberron (and into Stormreach). Then, the rest of the focus was on Stormreach. Now, assume that someone else went and said "most of the content in the Forgotten Realms has been revealed; anything else would be new locales" (Maztica, Kara-Tur, etc.) What would be your answer? I can't answer for you, but you'd defend the Forgotten Realms by mentioning the wealth of content that'd be missing.

    It's the same with Eberron. It's still unexplored, and the sudden shift of content feels a bit unfair, because the developers haven't finished with one setting before switching to another. Note the real reason why it happened; Wizards is heavily promoting the Forgotten Realms as the core setting of D&D Next, the upcoming 5th edition of D&D, and thus all upcoming games will use it as the main setting. DDO, being based on Eberron, was forced to shift in order to accommodate the desires of the copyright holder. Trust me; the next possible expansion, or one of the following updates, WILL feature the Sundering. That's the real reason why Turbine made the jump to Faerun, and why we're asking that they at least consider still updating Eberron.

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    Community Member DiamondPrinceJC's Avatar
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    I'm really happy to hear some others add to this topic.
    I personally feel like when I play I feel more than think, if that makes sense. Currently I feel like Ebberon is home to my characters and Faerun is somewhere to adventure. I would like to see Khorvaire brought into the mix because like TGO, I like the story of Ebberon. He is correct in that alot of Ebberon has not been explored. I can only imagine how HUGE, seedy, diverse and segregated Sharn would be. Or how grimey and dangerous Droaam would feel.
    I do like Faerun as well but I think we need to have low level quests there to build a character from level one so players can feel like their character as grown to be a hero in Faerun and not transported there.
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    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Yeah I'd love to see Psionics although I'd rather see Shardminds as opposed to Kalashtars but mostly because they look really cool(want Genasi for the same reason).
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-26-2013 at 01:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondPrinceJC View Post
    I do like Faerun as well but I think we need to have low level quests there to build a character from level one so players can feel like their character as grown to be a hero in Faerun and not transported there.
    If anything, this would get my vote for more development in FR. Still far too much world left in Eberron to explore though.
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