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  1. #101
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I like this change. I don't like the TR Heart change, but I do like this.
    It will absolutely drive some people to repeat some of the lower level content. I kinda wish a BIT of that was pushed more in the 8-12 range (which I think is the fastest place to level) but I'm ok with it. I'm trying to pay attention as I run through a life right now (go go harbor elites!)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  2. #102
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I can't believe people are complaining about having to spend more time at low levels. There's is SOOO much content at low levels that I usually don't get to run. I'm happy with the change. TRs now commonly banked levels before, so what's the big deal? Less XP is less XP. Just level up immediately if you banked levels before and it will feel the same.
    Yep, maybe I'll head out to Three Barrel Cove next life... I haven't been there in ages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  3. #103
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Im Ok with spending more time in lower levels, as the XP bottleneck has always been in the higher levels. Those concerned with XP/min will like it because the lower levels give a higher xp/xp-needed ratio and can be run far more quickly, some in a matter of a minute or two, if any repetition is needed (which is unlikely). The new XP ransack makes sure we never run out of XP to get in specific level ranges either, as it will reset to full, even after heavy farming.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  4. #104
    Community Member Dhalgren's Avatar
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    Have to just jump in and say yes, this is one great big bowl of awesomesauce. Thanks!

    Now we just need to get those durned proposed TR heart changes un<redacted>.
    Heatherx Rgr12/Arti6/Rog2 (PL: 3 Wiz; 1 FvS; 2 Sor; 1 Clr; 1 Arti; 1 Rog)
    Toryen Warchanter 22 ~ Treslyn Cleric 24 ~ Lohikaerme Druid 23 ~ Khenshii Monk 20

    Heroes of Light and Darkness ~ Argonnessen

  5. #105
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalgren View Post
    Have to just jump in and say yes, this is one great big bowl of awesomesauce. Thanks!

    Now we just need to get those durned proposed TR heart changes un<redacted>.
    Heh, exactly - or this will be all for naught ... no one will be heroic TRing ;-)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  6. #106
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Im Ok with spending more time in lower levels, as the XP bottleneck has always been in the higher levels. Those concerned with XP/min will like it because the lower levels give a higher xp/xp-needed ratio and can be run far more quickly, some in a matter of a minute or two, if any repetition is needed (which is unlikely). The new XP ransack makes sure we never run out of XP to get in specific level ranges either, as it will reset to full, even after heavy farming.
    But levels 1-5 are unfun for some or us. I think that the xp should be incremented in the range 6-14, and decreased in the range 15-20. The lv 1-5 should stay unchanged. There are plenty of xp in the quest 4+ (6 in elite), not enough before. And levels 1-5 are booooring
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

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  8. #108
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaragoss View Post
    Something about this looks ... familiar.

  9. #109
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    I find no issue...
    good change!!!!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    But levels 1-5 are unfun for some or us. I think that the xp should be incremented in the range 6-14, and decreased in the range 15-20. The lv 1-5 should stay unchanged. There are plenty of xp in the quest 4+ (6 in elite), not enough before. And levels 1-5 are booooring
    But what if levels 7-10 are unfun for me? Saying that you don't like a level range is not a valid argument for why it shouldn't be increased.

    Also, I haven't even done all the lvl 2 quests on elite yet on my recent 4th life and I'm at ~70k exp. AND it's one of the few places where you should be able to do anything on any build with minimal resources as long as you have the experience(which any legend life should)

  11. #111
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    I like this change. I've had the opinion for years that the xp on a 3rd + life didn't necessarily need to be reduced it just needed to be redistributed. For the devs to be doing both is a huge bonus. Spending more time at the low levels isn't an issues for me personally since I like the lowbie content. The changes to quest ransack + daily replay bonus also extend the viability of those quests.

    However, bonus lives for the excess xp I've aquired on my main over her last 13 lives would be well ... bonus awesome.
    Goddess, you know it baybee!
    Zealotry ~ Zealot ~ Zeal ~ Chanteuse ~ Conceit : +5 to Sexterity, Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by Bromuro View Post
    P.S: Besides Zealotry's voice is charming/mesmerizing and i bet she is a witch or a succubus disguised.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    It will absolutely drive some people to repeat some of the lower level content. I kinda wish a BIT of that was pushed more in the 8-12 range (which I think is the fastest place to level) but I'm ok with it. I'm trying to pay attention as I run through a life right now (go go harbor elites!)
    Only if they are incapable of running low level elites at normal or normal+1 quest level or have an obsession with running them only at elite level.

    Else less overall xp needed with the same amount of xp available means less time needed. Just disregard your level and do things the same way you always did. Maybe you will be running tear elite at level 8 instead of 9, but later this will reverse as you hit the thinner levels of the new curve.

    So don't repeat, just run the next thing at a lower level than you used to and everything will more than even out at the end.

  13. #113
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    why increase the xp needed at low levels? they were **** enough before, now they will be doubly ****, having to earn like 30k more xp at level 4-5? omfg those already were the levels I liked the less now I have to stay more on them?, have you guys checked the quests avail for those levels? they stink and there aren't so many

    if you are reducing the overall required xp, why in the world would you increase the needed on some levels and decrease on others, just decrease proportionally on al levels and be done with it

    or are you planning to use this as a practical example of how to turn something extremely simple into something unnecesarily and unwantedly complicated?

    I just can't understand the reasoning to decrease needed xp for 1-20 but increase the one for 1-10 ( is it to ten that needed xp increases )?

  14. #114
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    Thumbs up Charts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Something about this looks ... familiar.
    Haha I'll bet it does. The charts must be flowing thick and fast in design meetings...

    For those who like a visual perspective I thought I'd post a few of my own charts that were made a while ago, updated to reflect the new info. They're uglier than the ones Zaragoss posted and some info is outdated: they don't include any of the content released since MotU, nor do they incorporate the proposed quest XP changes. But they might provide some comparison and context. Also: I don't read the forums exhaustively so apologies if someone else did this already.

    Here's a chart:



    In this one we see the current XP required at each level on a TR2+ (non-cumulative) in red and the proposed U20 XP in blue. The old curve was fairly smooth and the ramp got steep at the end, just a funny jag in the middle at level 11. I always figured this was because the plan was to cleverly compensate for the hordes of players diligently farming the highest XP quest in the game: The Twilight Forge

    *crickets*

    Aaanyway the new curve looks a lot more hand-made and custom, perhaps tailored to a certain purpose. This chart also includes a plot of the number of quests available at each level in green. At the time I compiled it there was a clear domination of quest numbers south of level 12; the landscape has obviously changed a bit with the release of newer content but I'd hedge that those quests fill out the level 15 hole and not too much else. But what does it mean for actual XP?



    My experience is that when running an elite streak the final quest XP reward is about triple the base elite XP. We're not counting optionals, or monster manual rewards, or wilderness, or daily rolls, and we're not farming anything. So here's a chart of that, in green, compared to the new and old TR2+ XP at each level (non-cumulative). The interesting thing here is that the new curve seems to acknowledge the variation in available XP: early on, when XP is comparatively plentiful from a variety of sources the new curve asks more. At the same point that the variety of xp levels off the new curve asks less than the old at each level. It's almost like it was made to fit!



    Finally, here's our cumulative comparison. The familiar new and old total XP curves are compared with a plot of the cumulative 3x elite base XP from quests in stylish Excel purple. There's a few things I'd note here:
    • The front-loaded extra XP gap is possibly not as big as you think. The maximum raw difference is about 85K at level 12; the proportional differences are high at low levels but represent smaller raw numbers.
    • There appears to be plenty of quest XP available at each level, certainly up to 14. As a player who likes to run a wide variety of quests I find this matches my previous experience pretty well.
    • When some farming and other xp sources are taken into account the xp available should be easily enough to fully bank with minimal repetition. I found previously that I would hit an xp bank cap without having done all the quests of a level, particularly at levels 8-12.
    • Clever farmers and XP zergers (not me in either case) will find ways to make this sing.
    • I never see PUG raids for Chronoscope, VoN or Twighlight Forge running on my server or playtime so including those departs from what I know, but maybe it works for those with large guilds and/or US timezones.


    My personal conclusions: I like it. This addresses the upper heroic level grind by cutting it short and transferring some burden down to where there's already some excess XP available. With my fanatic XP banking playstyle I anticipate finishing heroic lives in the Vale and then considering whether to grind out a heart or just treat myself to store-bought - a decision that's heavily influenced by how much I'm enjoying my current career.

    The new XP ransack mechanics encourage people to play a variety of content, which is a good thing. I say this because it conforms to my personal playstyle and bias, and because my fun is better than your fun But I also think that making the 'best' quests the most rewarding is an impossible task because everyone enjoys the game differently. As I said the clever farmers will find the soft spots and dig in like four-basket kobolds. Or possibly monstrous, bloated, XP sucking Quori head-ticks, I'm not sure.
    Last edited by Humungazoid; 11-07-2013 at 06:36 AM.

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