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  1. #61
    Community Member cnynridr2's Avatar
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    Default Okay great change but...

    If we now have Ransack on quests, doesn't that make the TR-3 grind even more of a pain for xp? For example, Ringleader E/H/N-7. This can't be done in one play session and trying to split it up between 3-4 play sessions would suck and make it hard to remember which quests had been done on what how many times.

    As a side note I would really like to see in the Quest log where it shows the difficulty done per quest to show if you had at least done a E/H/N.


    Or am I missing something?
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  2. #62
    Community Member Razahe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    3bc has plenty of xp Anyhow, I dunno. I always cap at low levels, though i do farm a few harbor quests, admittedly. and 600k xp difference in the last few levels is more than "few hours". At least, it's more hours than the "few hours" being traded at the other end of the spectrum. Besides, this way you can basically cap just running e-streak, you just don't need to bank levels at all anymore.
    600k at the very end isnt much more than 5-6 hours. And is i mentioned before thats the time where my build got most of its abilities, those levels are way more interesting for me than autoattack lvl 1-10. And those boring levels now take a bit longer. I know that i can skip banking now, but still, more XP needed down there feels simply wrong for me. But in the end i just posted again here because there are too many people shouting "longer low level doesnt matter", in theorie it does matter for me. In practise i could handle the old style, i can handle the new style, would have prefered a more "latelevel"-weighted curve though.

  3. #63
    Community Member Wulverine's Avatar
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    Almost all the servers have plenty of new folks starting the game. It's not unlikely they want us to hang around the lower levels a bit more so there's more people playing at those levels.
    Remember the reasoning behind the ghostbane change: they want to reduce the amount of newer people that quit the game during the lower levels.

    Also, people were doing Elite-once-and-move-on TR2 lives before U19. Before they added the daily bonus.
    Last edited by Wulverine; 10-14-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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  4. #64
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnynridr2 View Post
    If we now have Ransack on quests, doesn't that make the TR-3 grind even more of a pain for xp? For example, Ringleader E/H/N-7. This can't be done in one play session and trying to split it up between 3-4 play sessions would suck and make it hard to remember which quests had been done on what how many times.

    As a side note I would really like to see in the Quest log where it shows the difficulty done per quest to show if you had at least done a E/H/N.


    Or am I missing something?
    Just do it elite and go on never liked that playing a quest that many times its mind numbly boring. If I played the game like some completionists I would have quit long long ago. Slow down and smell the mushrooms

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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Normal questing for me is elite once and done. That is the easy content I am talking about. Right now you can one and done everything upto level 5 or so pretty much perfectly. This will require repeats or going into higher level content earlier (which will eat out your available first time xp early). That is why it will be an annoyance. Because you will be doing the high xp/min quests again as repeats in the low level range. That is not fun questing. I did it plenty of times through the years before BB and xp tomes were introduced. Basically this brings us back to that type of questing with tomes...without well that is going to be really boring for those without tomes of learning. At least when the grind was in the higher level content the quests were generally not fall asleep easy on elite.
    Continue to do once and done on elite. Everything will be fine. The only difference is you will not start holding levels until you get higher in level and you will run quests at slightly lower level than you used to. You will not run out of quests and have to repeat anything, though you may find yourself running quests at level (instead of being two levels above). It really is a nice change as long as you are willing to run level 3 quests on elite at level 3 (instead of level 5).
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  6. #66
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    I love this change. Even if the XP for the early levels was doubled I would spend far less time in that level range than I spend on the later levels.

    I don't really understand complaining about the early level XP changes. It might be something that only chain TR people can understand, but I suspect it's just another proof that someone somewhere will dislike any change.

  7. #67
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razahe View Post
    Just have to say i am always pretty impressed how people manage to run into XP cap by accident in low levels, up to 9 i am running every quest (except 3bc) with max XP bonuses available (except pots, well 5% challenge ones mostly) and never get even close to XP cap. I even farm the better XP quests (EHHHN nothing excessive on like 5 quests in the complete range) a bit and dont hit it, so tell me your secrets (excluding pots).
    If your character is on a TR train for 3+lives, a greater tome of learning is amazing. Added with the daily bonus and bravery, you get +220% XP just running all quests on elite "once and done". (20% first time doing elite, 80% first elite, 50% elite bravery, 50% XP tome, 20% daily bonus). Add to that usual quest bonus (conquest, ransack, etc). And on the FINAL value, you add 10% VIP, XP shrines/potions and 5% voice. (Usually I have 23% with challenge pots and 3% XP shrine).

    If you don't farm mindlesly, but get each quest once, running for maximum bonus for a single completions (even if not the best xp/min), you can easily cap on low levels before you finish every quest in bravery range. Doing that have one disadvantage over optimal XP farming (takes longer to cap), but a good number of advantages inherent to it (You experience a lot of varied content, you get a ton of favor/TP, you fill out MM entries for even more free XP).

    In the end, it is a matter of priorities. You can bet everyone that talks about how they "easily cap low level" are talking about doing once and done runs. When you activelly farm, you get focused on the goal (the next level) and everything that matters is how long it takes you to get to the goal. When people says they don't noticed they were capped is because they were enjoying the low level content, or ticking the quest journal for that level, and wasn't even looking at the XP bar.
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  8. #68
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    If you don't farm mindlesly, but get each quest once, running for maximum bonus for a single completions (even if not the best xp/min), you can easily cap on low levels before you finish every quest in bravery range. Doing that have one disadvantage over optimal XP farming (takes longer to cap), but a good number of advantages inherent to it (You experience a lot of varied content, you get a ton of favor/TP, you fill out MM entries for even more free XP).
    I have a tome, I usually have a 5% pot running, and this is simply not my experience.

    I one and done everything apart from Arachnophobia, Scrag's Sewer, Explosive Situation, and (sometimes Gladewatch Outpost and Kobold Assault), till about level 10.

    I invariably have just levelled up to level 4, am holding almost no extra xp (definitely less than a bubble), with every single quest on level 2 done, and have to move on to level 3 quests. Usually that will let me hit 5 where I experience the same problem.

    I don't deny that it gets progressively better from level 5.

    1 - 5 though, are not remotely close to BB one and done on a TR2.
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  9. #69
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    I have a tome, I usually have a 5% pot running, and this is simply not my experience.

    I one and done everything apart from Arachnophobia, Scrag's Sewer, Explosive Situation, and (sometimes Gladewatch Outpost and Kobold Assault), till about level 10.

    I invariably have just levelled up to level 4, am holding almost no extra xp (definitely less than a bubble), with every single quest on level 2 done, and have to move on to level 3 quests. Usually that will let me hit 5 where I experience the same problem.

    I don't deny that it gets progressively better from level 5.

    1 - 5 though, are not remotely close to BB one and done on a TR2.
    I generally hit the harbor solos first, then the explorers in Cerulean Hills and THEN head back to Korthos. In an ideal plan I'd leave Korthos at 3rd, but not really in the math without some repeating. Generally for me that's a few of the town quests on different difficulties + sacrifices a few times (it's fast). I generally hit the 2s more than once each already to get out of 4 - that's ok, some of them are fun and some of them are fast - but it is my experience as well.
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  10. #70
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    1 - 5 though, are not remotely close to BB one and done on a TR2.
    Whenever I had to "catch up" with someone that TRed a day or so earlier, hate to admit but 4 - 5 was a "problem " and had to repeat WW or Info or Catas on hard / normal or whatever to lvl up.
    Or eat 20 - 30 k of those xp things from gold rolls.
    Not banking at all , well why would you < Shadowcrypt or whatever.

    Maybe they meant with optionals and stuff for every quest ? Flowersniffing compared to invis/ thf cleave / herd / don't loot /kill boss / insta recall "tactics ".
    But breakables or kill bonus in Harbour would drive me crazy.
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  11. #71
    Community Member Razahe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    If your character is on a TR train for 3+lives, a greater tome of learning is amazing. Added with the daily bonus and bravery, you get +220% XP just running all quests on elite "once and done". (20% first time doing elite, 80% first elite, 50% elite bravery, 50% XP tome, 20% daily bonus). Add to that usual quest bonus (conquest, ransack, etc). And on the FINAL value, you add 10% VIP, XP shrines/potions and 5% voice. (Usually I have 23% with challenge pots and 3% XP shrine).
    Yup, thats what i mean with all XP bonuses (dont have VIP though, but thats not that much). Its simply not true that you hit the XP cap easily without pot investment or without farming. So if someone complains about hitting cap before having done all lowbie quests, they either farmed some or used pots.

    And this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Encair
    Maybe they meant with optionals and stuff for every quest ? Flowersniffing compared to invis/ thf cleave / herd / don't loot /kill boss / insta recall "tactics ".
    But breakables or kill bonus in Harbour would drive me crazy.
    Trying for devious ? All the time.
    Its basically not only aboutXP, but about XP/min too

  12. #72
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    My biggest problem with this change and with the various changes to quest XP is that I have no confidence that the changes are tied to any logical reasoning. It's more like they pulled a big bunch of numbers and then tried to find a problem that fit the numbers instead of asking a very specific question and then seeing if the numbers gave a solution. Additionally, they are making changes that we've asked for for years but, as usual, they are doing it in a manner that is highly questionable and then asking us to trust them (kind of the the Govt. ask us just to trust them). We know that at least one of the devs doesn't care about anything other than his idea of right and wrong so what's to make us think that the whole team isn't like that? And they never look at simple solutions, they instead always want to find something convoluted to implement instead? An example of that is HP. They realized that toughness was a required feat for every character and instead of reducing mob damage they changed how toons get HP. KISS should be the rule but instead it's KICC (Keep it convoluted and confusing).

    Reduce the XP needed, and spread it evenly among all levels. KISS.
    Significantly increase the quest XP for quests that aren't played much. KISS.
    Don't reduce any quests' XP. KISS.

    Just keep it simple. Stop making mountains out of molehills.
    Last edited by Yaga_Nub; 10-15-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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  13. #73
    Community Member ahpook's Avatar
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    Add me to the vote that approves this flat 50%/100% more XP required at every level. The minimal increase of XP in the early levels is preferable to the high XP in level 18 and 19 that we currently have. I am actually amazed that people are complaining that levels 1 through 5 will now be too tedious....

    Quote Originally Posted by Razahe View Post
    600k at the very end isnt much more than 5-6 hours. And is i mentioned before thats the time where my build got most of its abilities, those levels are way more interesting for me than autoattack lvl 1-10. And those boring levels now take a bit longer. I know that i can skip banking now, but still, more XP needed down there feels simply wrong for me. But in the end i just posted again here because there are too many people shouting "longer low level doesnt matter", in theorie it does matter for me. In practise i could handle the old style, i can handle the new style, would have prefered a more "latelevel"-weighted curve though.
    If "600k at the very end isnt much more than 5-6 hours." then this change is really immaterial to you. Most players do not get 600 K in 6 hours at level 19.

  14. #74
    Community Member ahpook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahpook View Post
    Add me to the vote that approves this flat 50%/100% more XP required at every level. ...
    I know I already approved but I might as well add that if I could I would take a completely different tack on this problem. I doubt that they would change the model at this time but here is what I would prefer.

    Change the model entirely so that all lives require the same XP but TRs get penalties to granted XP. In many ways the results would be the same but it would have the benefit that a certain XP always equals the same character level. This is less confusing for many people. It also gives more flexibility to the devs to change the leveling parameters without affecting the character levels of existing characters. Changes to leveling penalties would only affect future leveling and not current characters.

    If you wanted the exact same system that is currently being proposed all you would need to do is add static XP penalty of -33% and -50% to 1st and second lifers (applied after all other bonuses). If you wanted to be more creative, you could instead change the penalties to things like no first time bonus for normal/hard/elite completions, double repeat penalties, etc. They could even make the penalty system be selectable by the player when they TR so that different characters would accept different leveling criteria. One player may accept the 33%/50% penalty while another could chose a level based ramping up penalty (like current live system) and yet another might take a high repeat penalty.

    So, none of that will happen, but I thought I would throw it out there anyway.

  15. #75
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    I have many TRs running - low levels are always easy to pickup levels. I just run up the quest list in order Korthos - my most recent guy hit L9 without repeating anything but Ringleader (3x only) and Info (2x). I mostly run solo don't smash stuff but I do kill most everything as you can still do it at running speed in most cases and I will grab easy secrets and traps for that cheap XP but only if I don't have to do more than a few of either.

    Yes I have VIP and Greater Tome on this guy but don't run pots....save them for big quests like VoN3, WizKing etc...

    So my opinion - the changes are great - I may spend a few more hours in L1-10 but really save time on the back end so I am super happy (VOL xp decrease exempted).

    Oh and to those one or two that said this would harm new players.....this is only a change to the TR curve - I would say you aren't a new player if you are TRing.
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  16. #76
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Pardon if this question has been already asked.
    With the lower levels requiring more xp, what will happen to a toon who is sitting on an amount of experience that is lower than what the update will require for their level to be at?

    Ex: A TR2 player at level 7 with 300000 xp. Pre-20, the required experience to level to 7 is 289500, after update 20 the required experience to level is 320000.
    So what in the world would happen to this character?

  17. #77
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razahe View Post
    Yup, thats what i mean with all XP bonuses (dont have VIP though, but thats not that much). Its simply not true that you hit the XP cap easily without pot investment or without farming. So if someone complains about hitting cap before having done all lowbie quests, they either farmed some or used pots.

    And this:


    Its basically not only aboutXP, but about XP/min too
    Do all quests once on elite trying to get maximum bonusses. Tag all wilderness explorers on a single run at level, killing whatever mobs and rares you happen to come across.

    With a Greater Tome of Learning and VIP you won't need to drink a single XP pot and you'll still cap out.

    That's not just a theory, that's from having done it. Currently doing the same with a weekly static group. There's plenty of XP available.

  18. #78
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Has their been any word on what will happen to our current xp/level when the new curve is implemented?
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  19. #79
    Uber Completionist Ilindith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilindith View Post
    Based on those new numbers, I've earned 24,007,750 more experience points than what people will now need to get to the same point.

    Can I have 4 free epic past lives when they are released?
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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Has their been any word on what will happen to our current xp/level when the new curve is implemented?
    I'm wondering this too. I have a toon sitting at 20 waiting to TR pending more information on these changes and how it will affect characters that TR before the changes are implemented.

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