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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I'm wondering this too. I have a toon sitting at 20 waiting to TR pending more information on these changes and how it will affect characters that TR before the changes are implemented.
    The worse I see happening is setting us at the the minimum xp required to stay our current level. Dropping characters in level like that would be a nightmare to setup when looking at it from the programming side. I don't even know if they can tell what choices that we made last level (look at the problems with raid completions lately). Giving characters extra xp is a lot easier than fixing the thousands of problems that removing a level will cause.

    What about gear? A new player playing a Cleric takes a level of fighter and replaces his old weapon with a great axe. Roll him back to pure cleric and he suddenly isn't even proficient in his weapon.

    I would be completely stunned if people lost levels with this change. It's just so much easier to give them the minimum for this level they currently have.
    Last edited by Laeelin; 10-17-2013 at 08:17 AM.

  2. #82
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeelin View Post
    The worse I see happening is setting us at the the minimum xp required to stay our current level. Dropping characters in level like that would be a nightmare to setup when looking at it from the programming side. I don't even know if they can tell what choices that we made last level (look at the problems with raid completions lately). Giving characters extra xp is a lot easier than fixing the thousands of problems that removing a level will cause.

    What about gear? A new player playing a Barb takes a level of fighter and replaces his old weapon with a great axe. Roll him back to pure cleric and he suddenly isn't even proficient in his weapon.

    I would be completely stunned if people lost levels with this change. It's just so much easier to give them the minimum for this level they currently have.
    I logged on Lammania with my level 19 rogue and he instantly leveled so it seems it is bumping us up to the new appropriate level for our current xp.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnynridr2 View Post
    If we now have Ransack on quests, doesn't that make the TR-3 grind even more of a pain for xp? For example, Ringleader E/H/N-7. This can't be done in one play session and trying to split it up between 3-4 play sessions would suck and make it hard to remember which quests had been done on what how many times.

    As a side note I would really like to see in the Quest log where it shows the difficulty done per quest to show if you had at least done a E/H/N.


    Or am I missing something?
    The ringleader thing takes about 15 minutes tops. And at 20% XP, it is still decent XP. Also, no one said you had to farm it to death. There is no reason to "hold levels" at lower levels, you could join a higher level group for more XP if you did everything and were still lacking.

  4. #84
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    For everyone complaining how much long it is going to take to level from 1-5, what do you do when you're at level 6? Just pretend you are there when you hit level 5.

  5. #85
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I logged on Lammania with my level 19 rogue and he instantly leveled so it seems it is bumping us up to the new appropriate level for our current xp.
    I think a lot of us are curious about what will happen with the reverse, if we have less xp than our level or ranks will require.
    Do we get rolled back a level? Do we get rolled back to the start of the level, losing ranks? Do we keep our ranks, but progress to the next gets stretched? Does our obtained xp get adjusted to reflect our current position?

  6. #86
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    why are you guys whining about needing some lower level xp? really? this last life i decided to not farm anything until 18. i ran everything elite one time and moved on. Not only did i rack up a lot of xp and favor and hell i was running content close to 4 levels above normal. i still had not issue. i didnt do xorian, devils, chrono, tomb of tormented, twilight forge adq 2 litany, reavers fate. im at 3k favor. noes what will i do.

    my point is even favor route without 20 xp changes i had plenty of xp to work with just to get to 19. there is still stuff i havent touched. Delerium, lord of stone, lord of eyes, acute delerium, harbringer chain, stormhorn, cannith chain. some cannith challenges, a new invasion, druid chain, high road chain, vale, Stealer of souls, all of iq and dreaming dark, through the mirror darkly, servants of the overlord, spinner of shadows, beyond the rift, riddle, and murder by night. I also need to do full slayer runs through gh to amrath.

    So if you look at all of the stuff i have above left. you can't tell me there isnt enough xp there to get 700k i need to hit 20 before update 20. So now with the xp curve, xp adjustment and quest ransack. you can do so much. I didn't even say my route was even the correct route. this was just a test non farming life. all elite once. one full run of slayer xp with explorers for change and i like them. Now under update 20 im 150k to 20. So yeah you know what complain all you want and moan. there are plenty of xp in this game and many ways to earn it. suck it up.

  7. #87
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    This new thing, it is bad.

    /thread summary
    Graceana, assassin ~ Xiya, tempest ~ Shinshi, shintao ~ Ayaxi, thief-acrobat ~ Saravi, cleric ~ Sanziana, arcane archer ~ Kyudojin, mechanic
    Talvi, caster druid ~ Zinzie, shiradi sorc ~ Kishori, spellsinger ~ Faunia, wolf druid ~ Viven, warchanter ~ Jianqiao, ninja spy
    Cliodna, wizard ~ Serenwyn, swashbuckler ~ Duisteri, shuribuild ~ Mahuika, warlock ~ Narabali, tank ~ Tabbithah, artificer
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Ask for TWEAKS and ye shall receive, and lo, the nerfhammer shall be moderate. Ask for cow from orbit and ye shall receive that, too, and be sorry you did.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by silinteresting View Post
    i see and hear a few people saying 1-5 is gonna be abit rough
    and were gonna have to spend longer there(i agree). well wasnt there
    a thread a while back where a dev said that the trouble spot
    for keeping new players was the about these levels. so isnt this
    then from that perspective a good idea?

    just a thought.

    your friend sil
    Nope. This will probably make it worse. New players are driven away (among other things) by vets zerging so fast they dont know what is going on and then getting frustrated. Or vets just not having the patience to deal with new players. This will only get worse if thOse tr'ing need to grind more xp at low levels. Besides, i think many solo them anyways or run in guild/channel groups, faster that way.

    What i like about front loading the xp is that low level quests are much easier and i can solo them easier if i do need to grind some more. Higher level quests tend to be more challenging and require more grouping.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahpook View Post
    Add me to the vote that approves this flat 50%/100% more XP required at every level. The minimal increase of XP in the early levels is preferable to the high XP in level 18 and 19 that we currently have. I am actually amazed that people are complaining that levels 1 through 5 will now be too tedious....



    If "600k at the very end isnt much more than 5-6 hours." then this change is really immaterial to you. Most players do not get 600 K in 6 hours at level 19.
    Yup. This. When someone replaces your cr-ap pie with a twinkie, you don't complain that you wanted an apple pie with vanilla ice cream instead. You eat your dang twinkie and are thankful it isnt the cr-ap pie anymore.

    Yes, 600 k in 6 hours is farming vales and other high xp quests with some monster zergers, me thinks. It is possible, but not likely the experience of the majority. Especially not with xp ransack now....

  10. #90
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    I can't believe people are complaining about having to spend more time at low levels. There's is SOOO much content at low levels that I usually don't get to run. I'm happy with the change. TRs now commonly banked levels before, so what's the big deal? Less XP is less XP. Just level up immediately if you banked levels before and it will feel the same.

  11. #91
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    Well done on removing the cumulativeness of the 2nd-3rd life XP progression compared to 1st!


    However, I don't like the approach of lowering the XP needed for levels 15-19. It would be much better to raise the XP per quest in the 15-19 range.

    Having level 19 quests that give less XP and certainly less XP/min than level 9 quests is wrong in so many ways.

    I'll reference to something I once wrote about this but which still is relevant: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...progressive-XP

    summary:
    XP/min should increase with level.
    time spent at level should increase a bit with level also.
    XP needed per level should increase with level accordingly
    Last edited by Rull; 10-19-2013 at 05:42 AM.

  12. #92
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    I have "4,378,500" tattooed on my rear end, I'd like turbine to pay for the laser removal procedure.


    OK, actual thoughts: Right now, doing an elite bravery streak and farming a BIT (but not a lot), using no XP pots, I am outleveling content. As I always do. As nearly everyone does. So I don't think needing marginally more at low levels is a huge concern. TR2s are doing harbor at 3/4, catacombs/WW at 5, etc...this might actually encourage taking levels when not XP capped. Shifting more XP needed to the lower levels is fine by me...I mean, maybe I run gianthold at lvl14 instead of 15, orchard at 15 instead of 16, vale at 17 instead of 18, etc...but cap earlier anyway. No biggie.

    But, I personally think 3.8mil is too low. 4.378mil felt like about 200-300k too much only due to level 18/19 quests being mostly complete dung xp/min. The actual number wasn't TOO bad.

    I don't think it's a bad change, just not an ideal one.

  13. #93
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    Fundamentally, great change - big fan.

    I hate to not just say 'it's fine, ty, gj', but I'm going to make a suggestion:

    Spending longer at 1 - 5 is **** <-- not a bad word at all! Seriously? Whatever, let's pretend I'm up in arms and swearing.

    1 - 5 are dead boring, lack the quests to level up smoothly with just one and done bravery runs of stuff 2 levels below, and generally is repetitive and unpleasant already. Don't make it longer.

    Is it possible you could retain 1 - 5 at old xp values, and spread the difference between their adjusted values and their old values over 6 - 18? It would be a negligible change to those levels, but remove the exasperation that will come from grinding Durk's, New Ringleader and Stealthy Repo even harder than currently.

    I know messing with the numbers sounds unpleasant, but making the early game longer is a genuine moderate con (albeit not one that outweighs the overall changes).

    TL;DR It's excellent, but could be substantially better if you keep the low levels' xp requirements as they are.
    +1. 100% agree. Doubling xp requirment for lvls 1-5 is just going to shift the grind problem from high level to low lvls. Low level quests dont provide enough xp to support this massive increase.

  14. #94
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    I have "4,378,500" tattooed on my rear end, I'd like turbine to pay for the laser removal procedure.


    OK, actual thoughts: Right now, doing an elite bravery streak and farming a BIT (but not a lot), using no XP pots, I am outleveling content. As I always do. As nearly everyone does. So I don't think needing marginally more at low levels is a huge concern. TR2s are doing harbor at 3/4, catacombs/WW at 5, etc...this might actually encourage taking levels when not XP capped. Shifting more XP needed to the lower levels is fine by me...I mean, maybe I run gianthold at lvl14 instead of 15, orchard at 15 instead of 16, vale at 17 instead of 18, etc...but cap earlier anyway. No biggie.

    But, I personally think 3.8mil is too low. 4.378mil felt like about 200-300k too much only due to level 18/19 quests being mostly complete dung xp/min. The actual number wasn't TOO bad.

    I don't think it's a bad change, just not an ideal one.
    Disagree on both counts. 3.8 is still a bit too high, but a very, very welcome change. See my post above on low level xp.

  15. #95
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    Yup. This. When someone replaces your cr-ap pie with a twinkie, you don't complain that you wanted an apple pie with vanilla ice cream instead. You eat your dang twinkie and are thankful it isnt the cr-ap pie anymore.

    Yes, 600 k in 6 hours is farming vales and other high xp quests with some monster zergers, me thinks. It is possible, but not likely the experience of the majority. Especially not with xp ransack now....
    Yeah, except that since they are looking at it now why not get it right? It should be a very easy change to keep lvls 1 - 5 same as before and start adjusting xp curve up from there. Xp from quests at lvls 1-2 are horrid. This change will require more very low lvl grinding. Nobody likes cr-ap, but i'd prefer not to be poisoned with twinkies either.

  16. #96
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    Levels 1-5 will cost 224k on a Third Life, which is the grindiest life, of course.

    1: 8k XP. Total of L1 F2P quests on Elite, no optionals: 3959 * 1.2 (daily bonus) * 1.93 (Elite BB, prorated for build-up) = 9169
    2: 32k XP. Total of L2 F2P quests on Elite, no optionals: 14515 * 1.2 * 2.5 (full Elite BB) = 43,545. Total cumulative: 52,714
    3: 80k XP. Total of L3 F2P quests: 9287 * 1.2 * 2.5 = 27,861. Total cumulative: 80, 575
    4: 144k XP. Total of L4 F2P quests: 11728 * 1.2 * 2.5 = 35184. Total cumulative: 115,759

    So you can make it to about Level 3.5 without having to rerun a quest once, without even getting into paid content. By the time you hit L5, you hit a little bit of a wall with F2P and have about 94k of XP to make up with repeating quests, but even then, its not that grindy. There's optionals, and there's First Time Hard bonuses that aren't even accounted for here.

    And if you have ANY paid content (which is always much better XP per quest), that extends your no-repeat ceiling a long way.

  17. #97
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    Yup. This. When someone replaces your cr-ap pie with a twinkie, you don't complain that you wanted an apple pie with vanilla ice cream instead. You eat your dang twinkie and are thankful it isnt the cr-ap pie anymore.

    Yes, 600 k in 6 hours is farming vales and other high xp quests with some monster zergers, me thinks. It is possible, but not likely the experience of the majority. Especially not with xp ransack now....
    600k/6h ~ 1.6k a minute. It's decent but not really _that_ much. You can even get that while doing vale explorers.. 60k xp from vale, 40m to clear it all in one go.

    The change is great though. I'm all for less xp and less grind
    Player of Garach - Triple heroic, iconic and epic completionist.

  18. #98
    Community Member Septimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    This is a great change.

    Some questions about implementation for current characters:

    Will I suddenly be able to level to 17 if I was sitting on enough xp?

    And what happens to the level 2 person without 8000 xp?
    Guessing from previous precedent
    - from the early XP changes (2006?) - people will be credited with the levels / enhancement points where they have earned more XP then required for their current level
    - From the XP penalties after death days - people will not loose any levels or enhancement points they have if they had earned less XP then required for their current level, but will pay off the deficit with earnt XP before continuing to level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I have never seen a 100% disapproval rating before.

  19. #99
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    Default XP curve with more weight on low levels

    I think this XP curve is a great idea. The low levels fly by so fast it's like they're just a small speed bump, whilte 18-20 drags on and on and on. So I'm happy that both the lower levels will be more emphasized and the xp for the higher levels reduced.

    Excellent work!

    Additionally, this XP curve increases the likelihood of TRs grouping with new players.

  20. #100
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    I like this change. I don't like the TR Heart change, but I do like this.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

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