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  1. #301
    Community Member wtorchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Just FYI, most melees have enough displace clickies to be displaced through an entire raid for the whole duration of it.

    Your "Barbarian/Fighter" is just a noob. A pure fighter/melee will have much more PRR, more Dodge, more tactics to prevent incoming damage, Reconstruct soon (Bladeforged cough cough) and more HP.

    So no, you will have a lot more problems on a melee/caster than on a pure melee.

    EK sucks, plain and simple. It's just a fail. The only PrE with FOUR useless cores PLUS an useless Capstone. Nothing screams "MULTICLASS ME!" like this PrE.
    I play a 17 cleric / 2 pal / 1 fighter on live live right now. I am able to keep my self up with an aura tick of 45 and my burst even in heavy fighting. It looks like the EK / Pale master type build should be able to do something similar. You should be able to self heal a ton with the death aura. You will not get it for free like the RS aura on Cleric, but it should heal for way more. On top of that it will damage mobs.

    Defense wise on my BC I run in FP. I hit a PRR in the 50s. I have around 600 HP in LD with a 16 con. Between the PRR, blur (from enhancements), and a little dodge I am not hit all that often. The big thing with these types of builds is to look at the aura heals as a form of DR. You are more vulnerable to burst damage though.

    I am not saying this will be the new ubber max DPS enhancement. I think it will allow for some interesting builds that should be able to hold there own in any PUG or guild run. I think the main thing that will detract from a build like this vs a BC is that the BC will still heal the group just by being present. A EK/PM build will be completely on their own. That is a bad spot to be in as a front line melee.

  2. #302
    Community Member wtorchia's Avatar
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    Finally got Lam working on my Win 8 system last night. I TRd my BC into the 18/2 build I posted above. Over all I thought the build was OKish.

    Highlights:
    - PRR was 80 or so in Litch in Flawless Black dragon plate and +12 PRR augment, and the 10 PRR epic feet.
    - Death aura was healing for 40-52.
    - Eldritch Tempest was interesting. I like the animation and the knock down. I can see it as a good O **** button.
    - Spells still did decent damage.

    The build FELT fun. I have a pref for BCs so that is how I built this guy. It def felt like a slightly upped version of my char on live when it comes to AOE damage. With the spell damage from casting and melee it looks like the char could be decent with the right tweaks. You could easily drop a fighter level and go 19/1 or maybe even pure 20. Drop insightful reflexes and something else. Maybe extend.

    I did not get a chance to run in a quest. I will be doing that tonight.

  3. #303
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    The new Lamannia build has a lot of fixes for EK.

    Sorry, just kidding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    The new Lamannia build has a lot of fixes for EK.

    Sorry, just kidding.
    well didn't think anything would have changed in it. I mean the ideas posted on this thread are nice, am abit sad to see that none of them seemed to make the cut. Will just have to see how it does when hits live. I think can be alright with splashes of other enhancments or multi class. But as a pure EK it's a fail. Just my opinion might change but time will tell.

  5. #305
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    The PRR seems to be bugged for splashes. My medium armor should have given 17 prr but it was giving the 12 of light armor. Hopefully this doesn't interfere with other splashes. The ASF for sorcerer seems finally fixed on armor.

    Sorc only real advantage is going to be about 40% more spell damage from savants in any 2 elements at a 23 savant/23 savant/34 EK split with no room for other class trees. I am going to stay with earth/ fire they give the melee stats and their core 4 seems to give the best melee oriented status effects. Air has to many spells that need DCs and ice will be to sp intensive not to mention Tenser's makes niac unusable.

    Wizard is going to have the better defense, feats, and self healing. Also has more AP to throw around than sorc.

    Going to stick with my 18 sorc/ 2 fighter after running a bunch of my different builds. Not really sure if all the hassle to put this tree together was worth what I'll be getting out of it. 13% double strike, 4-16 extra damage per weapon ( double on some enemies), and the ability to itemize heavy armor stats like double strike, absorption, vitality etc. Tenser's toggle and arcane barrier were nice additions though. Capstone is never going to get used. If you take 2 mins to kill something in a quests your killing power is really bad. I guess it was more of a raid ability? idk seems far to weak for the build up. Most things can barely stand in acid rain+ firewall before they are razed to the ground though let alone cleaving for 2 mins. Hopefully all the kinks are out before this Tuesday push.

    Has anyone tried a cleave wizard with legendary dread? With 2 new extra cleaves you probably never have to auto attack ever again if you manage some 3 barb/x wiz / fighter splash.
    Last edited by Exiledtyrant; 11-09-2013 at 05:14 AM.

  6. #306
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SylverChaos View Post
    well didn't think anything would have changed in it. I mean the ideas posted on this thread are nice, am abit sad to see that none of them seemed to make the cut. Will just have to see how it does when hits live. I think can be alright with splashes of other enhancments or multi class. But as a pure EK it's a fail. Just my opinion might change but time will tell.
    Some idea are not just nice. The four exactly same cores that can't be used at the same time are the most disappointing and lazy design I've seen in this game in a while (right before some Epic past lifes, +1 skills cough cough).
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Some idea are not just nice. The four exactly same cores that can't be used at the same time are the most disappointing and lazy design I've seen in this game in a while (right before some Epic past lifes, +1 skills cough cough).
    I have to agree the cores are a waist like have stated before. But some of the suggestions posted on this thread would have be awesome to be put in place of them. I could see the toggles as being in the tree as enhancements just not core. I won't get started on the epic past life feats.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    Please use this thread to discuss the new Sorcerer and Wizard Enhancement Tree: Eldritch Knight.
    I think it'd be pretty swell if the Eldritch Shield ability worked with a shield equipped OR with the improved shield ability cast.. kinda give a little incentive to take/use that ability, and it sorta fits the lore and idea of it and all.

  9. #309
    Community Member avepepix's Avatar
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    Really this will be fun for a fighter/wizard or maybe a chance to the warchanter to not die in a horrible form.
    but all this eldritch think it will workly perfectly in a new class, like the warlock. With the eldritch theurge

  10. #310
    Community Member Holybird's Avatar
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    Default They gave us already some improvements.

    Well I have an EK and I like playing it. I noticed today that Eldritch Strike does 0-2 dmg based on your spellsword-toggle. And I noticed that Eldritch Power also gives u 3d4 force dmg per hit affected by spellpower. Not sure was this planned or not but i really like it.



    P.S If u dont like this prestige don't complain about it , try to help devs to improve it.

  11. #311
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    I think the current tree lacks in two ways.

    First off, the majority of the abilities are contradictory. Why do we have both spell-like abilities for Shield and Mage Armor, while also having traits to let us cast in real shields and armor (which don't stack with Mage armor and Shield)?

    The other major issue is that the EK lacks in abilities that make up for the wizard/sorcerers weaknesses in Melee combat. These classes have half BAB, which means their to-hit will be well behind the curve. Despite this, the tree has nothing that increases to-hit. IIRC, pretty much every other martial tree has something that helps with hitting, like the war-priests inherent weapon enhancement, or trees like the kensai and theif-acrobat having flat + hit/+ damage abilities. Instead, it gets a bunch of one-off combat tricks like the shield bash proc and crit boost.

    One last issue is that some of the abilities don't really fit, namely the wand/scroll masteries.

    Proposed changes/new tree:

    I think the Mage armor/sheild line should be an either-or with the shield and armor prof lines. This frees up more trait space for other traits. In line with this, the shield and mage-armor traits should have some more scaling. As a t1 trait, you choose light armor prof and no spell failure for light armor (anda 10% spell failure reduction if you wear heavier armor), or choose the Mage armor spell-like, which includes a +2 armor bonus for mage-armor. at t2 (requiring the t1), you choose shield prof (and no shield spell failure) or improved shield (with a +1 AC bonus and/or PRR). As a t3 trait, you choose either medium armor prof + no spell failure + another -10% spell failure in heavy armor, or improve mage armor with another +2 (for +8 total). As a t4 trait, then possilby at t5, there would be more improvements to mage-armor and/or shield (maybe that 10% AC increase from the current one, and more PRR and AC for shield), or +1 enhancement bonuses to equipped armor and/or shields.

    To help with weapon use; the first core trait gives martial weapon prof.

    In addition, the elemental damage toggles should be moved out of the core slots, and made to act like the arcane archer toggles; costing spell points to activate instead of a cost per swing.

    Replacing the current cores there's a couple options. The first would be to add int/cha to attack, then damage as the second and third cores (i don't know what the fourth and fifth would be). A possible restriction would be to use a one-handed weapon (so either go sword-n-board, or twf). The other option would be to have each one give a +1 enhancement bonus to wielded weapons (with either the first core in the tree, or the first on giving an enhancement bonus making you treat any wielded weapon as a spellcasting implement). If the enhancement bonus isn't made a core trait, it should be a line of optional traits.

    Instead of the wand/scroll mastery, the EK should have an Efficient Metamagic: Extend Spell trait. Spellcaster/warriors often cast buffs on themselves, so extend is a good feat to have.

    Most of the other traits are okay as is, thought they might have to shuffle around, and a couple might have to be dropped, to make the tree fit in a 5x5. The martial training, item defense, toughness, shield bashing, still spell, and eldritch shield seem the best contenders for removal.

    removed "each additional core gives a +1 to-hit bonus. This gives the EK something similar to 3/4 BAB; a straight w/s will, at level 20, have 10 BAB and a +5 to hit. This replaces the double-strike and spell failure passives on the cores." forgot about tensers
    Last edited by 00zau; 11-15-2013 at 12:30 AM.

  12. #312
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00zau View Post


    These classes have half BAB, which means their to-hit will be well behind the curve. Despite this, the tree has nothing that increases to-hit. IIRC, pretty much every other martial tree has something that helps with hitting, like the war-priests inherent weapon enhancement, or trees like the kensai and theif-acrobat having flat + hit/+ damage abilities. Instead, it gets a bunch of one-off combat tricks like the shield bash proc and crit boost.
    This would be incorrect. The tree gives a Tensor's Transformation toggled ability, and it works just fine.

    My pure Sorc has absolutely no issues when hitting stuff in melee.
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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    This would be incorrect. The tree gives a Tensor's Transformation toggled ability, and it works just fine.

    My pure Sorc has absolutely no issues when hitting stuff in melee.
    You're right, I'd forgotten about Tensers. But that doesn't help until you get to a level where you can get that trait. And still, I think a weapon enhancement trait would make more sense than some of the other ones, which don't have anything arcane about them (like the shield bash and crit boost)
    Last edited by 00zau; 11-15-2013 at 12:28 AM.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by wtorchia View Post

    The build FELT fun. I have a pref for BCs so that is how I built this guy. It def felt like a slightly upped version of my char on live when it comes to AOE damage. With the spell damage from casting and melee it looks like the char could be decent with the right tweaks. You could easily drop a fighter level and go 19/1 or maybe even pure 20. Drop insightful reflexes and something else. Maybe extend.
    EK is really not needed to make a build like that. Honest! I've been playing a melee 18 wizard/2 rogue for a couple years (THF int/str/con). Weapon DPS is a little lackluster at 20 and heavily gear dependent, but it's JUST as fun without EK, and super survivable too. Especially now that Epic Destinies are out, choosing one of LD or Fury really rounds out the offensive aspect of a non-EK battle arcane. The extra cleave from the PrE is not bad.. as another cleave is always nice, but but there's a serious lack of much unique +fun factor in there. A lotta fluff and little substance. As others have mentioned, the duplicated cores just scream FILLER and lack of imagination.

    What this PrE needs is a slight buff in power, a moderate buff in synergy, a huge nerf to repetitiveness, a slight buff to flexibility with regards to different fighting styles, and maximum flavor!

    So here are some suggestions:

    Spellsword Cores -- Exclusive duplicated toggles is realllllyyyysuper boring. We all agree on this.

    Core Rank 2 "Spellsword": 4 options where each grants 2 of the fire/acid/ice/lightning toggles. Spellsword damage is affected by spellpower.
    Core Rank 3 "Spellsword": 4 options, 3 of which should be excluded by the Core 2 choice. Grants the remaining 2 damage type toggles. Also allows spellsword to crit (as a spell).
    Core Rank 4 "Tensor's Transformation": becomes Toggle: Tenser's Transformation, and increases eldritch strike to 1-3 damage.
    Core Rank 5 "Improved Eldritch Strikes": allows eldritch strike to crit.
    Core Rank 6 "Eldritch Blade": 25sp really isn't much, especially as a temporary capstone. Perhaps more interesting would instead be: Equipment type (non stacking with gear) universal spellpower bonus, equal to the highest spellpower of all damage types. Also changes the spellsword damage type to disintegrating for the duration of the buff.

    Replace the T5 Tensers Transformation with an improvement on Tenser's. Changing the spell to cause only 60%/25% increased cooldown, and -1/-1 penalty to dc and spell pen.

    Replace the +1% doublestrike T5 with something actually cool and more interactive, Like a +30% doublestrike profane action boost.

    Another idea would be something like on hit: +2% stacking bonus to spellsword damage, 3s decay (if not refreshed), max +1/s, max 10 stacks.

    Arcane Barrier. Make it also triggerable as an active, and we might like it better.

    Eldritch Shield .. temp hp on a T5, for 2 AP? Come on. Temp HP seems a bit of a lost cause.
    Instead, give us something like something like: "Evasive Shielding: Take (permanent, stacking) 60% reduced damage upon making a fortitude or reflex save (The normal 50% becomes 20%), (30s cooldown) 50% reduced damage upon failing a fortitude or reflex save."

    Merge T5 Still Spell and T2 light armor profiency, into a single 1 AP 3 rank T4 enhancements called "Armor Proficiency".
    Replace T5 Still Spell with a +5% dodge/5% max dodge passive.


    Critical accuracy/Critical Damage. Why are these separated? +1 Seeker is a already pretty forgettable to begin with. Oh look, filler! Make the T3 Seeker, and make the T4 +critical multiplier to spellsword, eldritch strike, and eldritch tempest damage.

    Eldritch Tempest: For 50sp and the long cooldown (for a cleave), this should do more. like make enemies helpless for 3s instead of just prone 1s.

    Shield Training: make this 2 ranks, 1 AP each, -5%/-10% ASF, to at least allow using small shields without penalty...


    EK does not need int/cha to damage. Int/cha to damage would result in unspecialized (between caster and weapon) arcanes, and produce a weird dichotomy in the stat bonuses from Tenser's. Changing Tenser's Transformation to buff int/cha is also problematic as then it would affect spellcasting and make tweaking more difficult. Instead, spellsword/critting spellsword should be buffed to make up the difference. It would also be a more interesting change anyways.

    With this in mind, add a T3 passive "Elemental Penetration": Spellsword elemental damage bypasses 10/20/30 of target's elemental resistance. (Merging of the repetitive -ASF enhancements
    makes room for this)
    Plenty of ideas here. Less Fluff More Substances please! And let's stop with the duplicated/split abilities!
    Last edited by Twinkly; 11-15-2013 at 10:28 AM.

  15. #315
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    The Main issue with EK is it looks like 3 different people made it

    Guy#1: This guy is awesome he made a bunch of cool lore-filled abilities including the spellsword core which allowed you to choose any of the 4 elements any time its cast...he really likes the idea of using force to attack and defend so he added improved shield/mage armor as well as the cleave like abilities than thinking along those lines he remembered how much a PITA keeping masters touch & tensors up is so he adds martial weapon proficiency as well as some double strike bonuses to reflect weapon training and than a tensers toggle.

    Guy#2: This guy only plays Sorc...added in wand/scroll mastery so his sorc could have ti despite that not making any sense for the prestige class, he also prefer high crit weapon so added useless crit enhancements, he also made the capstone..he thinks +10% damage every few minutes for a few seconds is an awesome ability. He also love THP so add eldritch shiled which Guy#1 actually thought was cool looking over #2s shoulder...he imagined a shield of force that actually recharges using the enemies attacks

    Guy#3: This guy has never actually played DDO or PnP he just sees the word Knight and goes from there...hmm knights they wear armor...so I'll add light/medium proficiency but not heavy armor because Heavy Armor is probably OP...knights use shield too right ..yeah ill add that in..also he the ability to get a free shield bash 15% of the time (remember hasn't played the game doesn' know this is bugged to only happen every 6 seconds)...oh wait this is for spellcaster they have spell failure stuff...ok bunch of ASF reduction things. He also figures a melee fighter with such knowledge of the arcane would be good at resisting elements so ill add that to (remember this guy has never played so has no idea the resist element spell exists). but wait he's added a bunch of shield stuff in now, so logically alot of the abilities guy 1 made should require a shield...hmm eldirtch SHIELD (doesn't read what it actually does or the flavour text) clearly that should require a shield. Hmmm nobody has filled out the cores...but the deadline is in an hour....oh well ill just split up this spellsword thing...im sure no one will notice.

    So if guy#1 worked on it alone EK would have been awesome...guy 2 had some dumb ideas but not too bad guy#3 was making an entirely different prestige tree and possible for an entirely different game...imo if Guy#1 continued to work by himself it would have looked more like this (shield/armor prof still included as some people do like that):

    Core 1 Eldritch Strike (gets better with each core) +0.5 USP and +1 Force Power per pt spent in tree
    Core 3 Cha or Int Atk/DMG (both sorc or wiz can choose Int or Cha..no reason to limit it)
    Core 6 Spellsword(choosing element works like Elemental Weapons or Resist Energy)
    Core 12 Tensers Toggle
    Core 18 Heavy Armor Prof OR Master Mage Armor/Shield (makes the improved SLAs even better)
    Core 20 +25 Force SP,+1 Crit Multiplier w/1-h Weapons and +2 Int or Cha

    Tier 1

    - Improved Mage Armor OR Light/Medium Armor Prof and Armor you equip gains the Greater Twilight Property
    - Item Defense: 25%/50%/75% to negate item wear
    - Toughness: 5/10/15 HP
    - Battlemage: +1/2/3 Concen/Intim/Balance
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage



    Tier 2

    - Shield Mastery or Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one - see below for EC-Line effects)
    - Adept Fighter: Proficiency and 2/4/6% Doublestrike with all 1-h weapons
    - Wand and Scroll Mastery +25/50/75% & +1/2/3 DC
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage
    - Improved Shield OR General Shield Proficiency and Shields gain Greater Twilight Property

    Tier 3

    + 1 Any Stat
    - Improved Battle Mage: Buffs are no longer dispelable or affected by anti-magic effects. (ie. Beholders)
    - Eldritch Barrier (SLA similar to Arty's Radiant Force Shield...cooldown 12min/9min/6min Duration 30 seconds + 6 seconds per level...Metas: Quicken)
    - Arcane Senses: +2/4/6 Reflex, Spot and Dodge%
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage

    Tier 4

    - Improved Shield Mastery or Improved Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one - Req Char Lvl 6)
    - + 1 Any Stats
    - Force Feedback (5/10/15% chance to do 1d4/1d8/1d12 Force damage on-hit w/ knockdown effect)
    - Haste Boost [Req: Arcane Senses]
    - Efficient Metamagic: Extend


    Tier 5

    - Improved Shield Bash or Greater Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
    - Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)
    - Improved Tenser's (reduces penalties and increases benefits, improves both the spell and the toggle)
    - Eldritch Tempest (Req: Force Feedback)
    - Eldritch Spectacle - +25/50/75% Magic Threat Generation & -5/10/15% ASF

    Note: Magic includes your EK SLAs ie. Eldritch Tempest and Spellsword

    The Tree (on its side) would look something like this.

    1. Improved Mage Armor,Improved Shield,Eldritch Barrier,Force Feedback,Eldritch Tempest
    2. Force Crit,Force Crit ,Force Crit, Efficient Meta: Extend, Improved Tensers
    3. Toughness, Combat Style,+1 Any stat,Improved Combat Style,Greater Combat Style
    4. Wand & Scroll Mastery, Battle Mage,Improved BM, +1 Any Stat, Master Battle Mage
    5. Item Defense, Adept Fighter, Arcane Senses, Haste Boost, Eldritch Spectacle

    Eldritch Combatant Effects:

    EC: When fighting with an orb in your off-hand, you gain 1 temporary spell point and +1 universal spellpower on-hit, 3 temporary SP and USP on crit, and 5 temporary SP and USP on vorpal for X seconds <insert standard language for disappearing stacks here>.
    IEC: Any 1-handed weapon gains +1 to Crit range and your touch/ranged touch spells no longer have a level cap.
    GEC: Orbs Boni to Saves and Energy Resist no longer requires you to be actively blocking (blocking doubles the effect instead)

    Improved tenser toggle
    - No spell cost to cast
    - +25% HP
    - Every six seconds you gain Temp HP equal to half your force spellpower
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 11-15-2013 at 02:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  16. #316
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    Only thing worthwhile in this tree is the first core enhancement. The rest isn't worth the AP. Yes, I'm complaining.. Tensers toggle? Seriously? This can be replaced with a scroll.. Compared to Acid Blast/Fireball/Lightning SLA the Eldritch tree is absolute garbage. Make the tier 5 aoe have a 6 second timer and extended crit range/damage oh and FREE and MAAAYBE it might be worthwhile.
    Zaphear(Completionist), Lugziurious, Lugzmeat Shield, Lugzii, Lugziii, Lugzsing Measong - De Profundis

  17. #317
    Community Member Takllin's Avatar
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    Wand and Scroll Mastery is still broken, can we get any response on this? Many bug reports after thorough testing show its still broken...

    Tokun PDK 12 Monk/4 Paladin/4 Fighter (3x Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue/2x Bard, Barbarian PL)
    Tekllin Human 20 Sorc (3x Sorc, Wiz PL)
    Jadokis Purple Dragon Knight 18 Barbarian/1 Favored Soul/1 Fighter (3x Bard, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Rogue/2x Favored Soul/Heroic and Epic Completionist)
    Degenerate Matter

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