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  1. #1
    Lamannia Coordinator SqueakofDoom's Avatar
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    Default The Official Eldritch Knight Enhancement Tree Discussion Thread!

    Please use this thread to discuss the new Sorcerer and Wizard Enhancement Tree: Eldritch Knight.
    Last edited by SqueakofDoom; 10-14-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Laid out proposed changes to the tree HERE




    Copy pasted from General Discussion:

    So, let's start with the cores:

    Seriously? Is this a Sorcerer thing where every single thing (be it two or more trees or two or more enhancements) should be the same? Cmon. You couldn't come up with 4 different cores so you gave us four different toggles THAT CANNOT BE TOGGLED ALL AT THE SAME TIME? I was kinda excited about the fact of having all of them active at once but geez.

    Also what's up with all these Force Spellpower bonuses in the cores? What about the so wanted and acclaimed Force enhancements that everyone wanted? Just so you can say "oh but if you take all 4 Spellwords, you get also 40 cool Force SP" ? It should be like every other tree: 0.5 USP per point spent AND 1 Force spell per point spent. And come up with something better for these cores OR let us active all them at once. It would be -4 SP every 6 seconds so we can't maintain it forever.

    Eldritch strike: I liked the animation, I liked the force damage. Not much to say.

    The capstone: few problems:

    1) 30 seconds duration when you need 150 seconds just to charge it. Too short. When we have in game buffs that gives 200% melee damage and can be kept through the entirity of a quest, I can't understand why a capstone can't last at least a whole 120 seconds, basically making it an ALMOST-PERMANENT MERE 10% DAMAGE INCREASE (and 25 SP).
    2) It's capstone. Make the Force spellpower +20.


    Let's bring it on the tree itself:

    Tier 1:

    Mage Armor passive bonus: 10% AC? Really? On a sorcerer? AC means nothing now. 15 stacking DR and would be not bad.


    Tier 3:

    Arcane Barrier: lasts 10 seconds, requires you to almost die, trigger only once every 150 seconds: bad.


    Tier 5:

    Tenser's trasformation: couple of problems:

    1) I like the Toggle thing.
    2) Why Arcane Barrier is a pre-req? There is no absolutely reasons. Noone will take Arcane Barrier but some people might like the Perma Tenser

    Eldritch Shield: temporary HP are U-S-E-L-E-S-S. You haven't got it yet, have you?

    Eldritch Tempest: I like it. Like the effect. I would change the Prone for one second to Helpless for one second, making Tempest + Eldritch strike/Cleave/Greater cleave amazing.


    Also: HOW MANY -ASF ARE THERE IN THIS TREE? Make the bonuses bigger somewhere and change some of these to something else for heaven's sake. This looks just a lazy design.


    Overall, the most thing I hate about this tree are the 4 Spellswords toggle. Make it so that we can all activate them at once (with the stacking debuff so -4 sp every 6 seconds).
    Last edited by Wizza; 10-13-2013 at 04:49 AM.
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    Did not see anywhere that you can use Cha/Int for to hit and damage. Missing from prestige or am I overlooking it?

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    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    It lacks heavy armor ASP reduction, but it looks nice.
    Need to test moar!

  5. #5
    The Hatchery kierg10's Avatar
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    Can someone post up a transcript of the new tree?

    Interested to see what is in it.
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    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kierg10 View Post
    Can someone post up a transcript of the new tree?

    Interested to see what is in it.
    It's in General Discussion and Arcane enhancement.
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    The Hatchery kierg10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    It's in General Discussion and Arcane enhancement.
    oh, well my search-fu is derptastic.
    Ckarlock Alarm (PDK bard 7 fighter 6 rogue 2) life 17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    What I think is OP is anyone who uses implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill to be more effective in quests then I am - so I then find the time to post complaints about their use of implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill thus making me OP on the forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Here's a new flash for the people who have not evolved and still play sponge toons: you serve no purpose. it's rude, but it's the truth. Divines are powerful, have been for a long time. They don't need you. If you need them you add no value to the group.

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    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    so far this prestige suck so terribly.. couldn't imagine any viable build with it..

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    The Shield spell sla did not work for me....

    i cast it and it got removed from me instantly.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunklerlindwurm View Post
    The Shield spell sla did not work for me....

    i cast it and it got removed from me instantly.
    Yup. I'm about to bug-report it.
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    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Question Confused

    This tree appears to be only good for melee based builds., which is odd for a wizard/Sorcerer. Apart from multi-classing, I can't quite see how this tree will be overall beneficial to these classes - particularly the Sorcerer, which is the main reason this new tree was introduced, no?

    Though, this looks perfect for an upcoming Spell-Sword class *hint hint*.
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    I made a warforged sorc level 15 and wanted to test if the ASF reduction also works on docents.

    I took adamantine body and took the warforged enhancements that reduced it to 19% (not 20%, but whatever)

    then took the second core ability and.. that does nothing, still 19% ASF.

    I will remake a warforged wizard and test again in a second because light armor proficiency (and med armor prof.) and arcane barrier aren't selectable for sorcerers. well, not for mine anyway.

    EDIT: Enhancements for wizards only don't work on docents. Even tested if it was a display error or not.
    Last edited by Healbat; 10-11-2013 at 05:54 PM.

  13. #13
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    I'm liking what I see so far, and I'm considering LRing my gimped 16 Sor/2 Pal/2 Mnk DoT tank into something more akin to a Tukaw to take advantage of this.

    Looking forward to see what any revisions to this bring.
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  14. #14
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Just like nonja/assassin/acrobat cores, the first two core enhancements should give something that include int/cha to hit/damage. Or maybe link it to Martial Training enhancement.

    Improved Mage Armor and Improved Shield should also gives more AC (Maybe scaling to +4/+6/+8). I know, it is kinda useless at cap, but if the tree is giving us benefits to use real shields AND ability to use medium armor, you should give a reason for us to use those spells instead of sticking with normal armor/shield.

    Capstone should give +20 Force spellpower. Also, make the core enhancements reduce the cooldown of Eldritch strike gradually, maybe -2 seconds per tier, ending with a cleave-like cooldown. (Ditto for Smite Foe on Warpriest)
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  15. #15
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    Improved Mage Armor and (Light Armor/Medium Armor proficiency) needs to be made into a selection [eg, Ability: Select one of Improved Mage Armor 1/2 or Armor Proficiency 1/2], as does Improved Shield and Shield Proficiency.

    Cha and Int to attack/damage might make for a good T5 ability

    The wand/scroll mastery doesn't quite fit [even if you can roleplay it in to the concept, it doesn't match the ability theme], and since it's available to Archmage [and perhaps Disciple of the Skin or the like in the future] it's redundant to the class.
    It ought be replaced~


    I get the feeling Elemental Resistance ought have more impact at tier 3, but that's not a major point.


    Eldritch Tempest gives standard spell damage, meaning that a 1 minute cooldown is far too long to make it suitably functional;
    However, it seems to have multiple tiers, so hopefully that means it gets down to a more reasonable delay <-- Edit: Looks decent


    Hopefully the Core20 'Eldritch Power' proc has a suitably long duration; it could be a good ability with a long enough duration. Perhaps make it an activated ability, though [as it seems to be an automatic proc].

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Capstone should give +20 Force spellpower. Also, make the core enhancements reduce the cooldown of Eldritch strike gradually, maybe -2 seconds per tier, ending with a cleave-like cooldown. (Ditto for Smite Foe on Warpriest)
    Good points
    Last edited by Dagolar; 10-11-2013 at 09:43 PM.
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  16. #16
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Eldritch Knight is on the wiki now. Yes, Sorcerer and Wizard EK is slightly different (basically, on stats)
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    Community Member decease's Avatar
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    none of the tier 5 enhancement seem worth getting...please reconsider or buff them..

    core are not very pleasing.. int/cha to damage mod is a must..
    DDO have betray it's lineage, it is no longer any true to DND.. which Is why am gone.. for good..

  18. #18
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decease View Post
    none of the tier 5 enhancement seem worth getting...please reconsider or buff them..

    core are not very pleasing.. int/cha to damage mod is a must..
    int/cha damage AND hit mod is a must.

  19. #19
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Theres nothing really wrong with the tree but there's nothing really that stands out either any battle mage will take a few things from this tree but not much to be honest.

    The cores are pointless beyond the first few as while having more than one element is 100% necessary (see why no one uses flame blade) everyone has a element focus so the others are just backups and unless you going for the capstone most people will stop at 2 elements.`Also why is eldritch strike ZERO-X its really disappointing it will make alot of the hits do nothing...why not make it 1-2 per C-level.

    The only things I actually really like about the tree is for one its very thematic and comes with all the things you'd expect from Eldritch Knight also the Tenser's toggle is bloody amazing, tensers is such a PITA to keep going due to a short duration that enhancement is a godsend...the other tier 5 on the other hand...weak sauce...3% doublestrike nice but meh, eldritch shield...temp hit points are so pointless its much easier just to drop false life. Still spell is nice but EK doesn't grant heavy armor prof for some reason so no need for it. I really do like Eldritch Tempest is thematic and actually quite potent and one enhancement that belongs as a tier 5

    Again the Tenser's Toggle & Eldritch Tempest are but the tree overall is fairly meh and despite their amazingness the rest of the tree isn't really worth it especially since a Battlewiz/sorc needs to keep Haste up as well so the tensers toggle is really only just one less click...maybe replace the tier 5 double strike with a Haste Toggle (actually check out the swiftblade PrC for some goos ways to flesh out this tree. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327

    Also any chance were getting new force spells with this because unfortunately the amount of Force-Based spells for Wiz/Sorcs are highly limited...maybe introduce the bigby's line of force spells. There's also a bunch of illusion spells that deal force damage

    Eldritch Strike/Tempest - Pretty awesome their magical cleave..works for me Long cooldown though

    uhhh yeah thats it everything I either don't really care about or is just a given like armor/weapon proficiencies and whatnot.

    Speaking of not caring...

    Eldritch Shield - Temp HPs are so hilariously easy for Wiz/Sorcs to self-cast whats the point in having a enhancement that does it every 6 seconds with a maximum based on your shields enhancement bonus...which IIRC the highest is 10...so your still better off using false life more THP and w/o the shiled requirement

    Elemental Shield - See above except with Resist Energy, we can already resist 30 of any element 6 more is fairly meh...does even less for savants than it does for wizards.

    Improved Shield - Alot of the EK enhancement require a shield to be worn so the shield spell does nothing, nor will the improved version. This should be a multi-selector chose either improved shield spell or shjild prof and shield asf reductiion and either improved mage armor or Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Prof and ASF reduction

    Needs Int or Cha (multi-selector) to attack and damage somewhere in there.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-12-2013 at 01:23 AM.
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    I think the tree is was very fun to play around with. I would like to see the core merged a bit though. I don't think we need 4 cores that all do the same thing. Just make it a multi use core for whatever element you want to use.

    Other cores be be more useful things like:
    - all elemental on hit effects now scale with spell power (besides things like disintegration etc that could get crazy)
    -Vorpals have a 100% chance to reset eldritch strike and a 50% chance to reset eldritch tempest
    -throw in a int/cha to hit and a int /cha to damage in separate cores
    -Depending on which elemental weapon you have toggled critical hits trigger a special effect Ex: acid triggers acid rain on critical or flesh to stone on vorpal, Fire triggers delayed fire ball on critical or sunburst on vorpal, ice triggers freezing sphere on critical or polar ray on vorpal, lightning triggers lightning bolt on critical or chain lightning on vorpal.
    -Every time you deal spell damage you have a 33% chance resetting eldritch strike and a 20% chance of resetting eldritch tempest.

    I'm sure there are a lot of neat cores you guys could think up instead of just putting more of the same for every core. Those were just a few off the top of my head.

    Eldritch strike and eldritch tempest are amazing btw maybe a slight cd reduction to 12 for strike and 25 for tempest at level 3 but all in all they make you feel super powerful when you use them. Lastly the long CD on the final core 120 second downtime on a 150 second build up is not going to make anyone want to stay pure. Needs more added to it or needs some way to speed up those charges so it feels like it actually matters.

    Going to bug report that shield SLA doesn't work and that during your copy paste you must have skipped over the sorc reqs. All the ASF and armor profs are wizard only as well as Tensers toggle and arcane barrier. I really hope that was just an oversight.
    Last edited by Exiledtyrant; 10-12-2013 at 04:33 AM.

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