Page 12 of 16 FirstFirst ... 28910111213141516 LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 317
  1. #221
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    6. Lack of Heavy Armor Proficiency add this to the capstone so people aren't forced to multi-class to pick it up
    ASF will still wreck you. You won't be able to cast anything reliably with a somatic component: at least 50% from armors, and then additional shield ASF on top of it.
    Also, you're still a 1/2 BAB class at heart, so the PRR you gain from heavy armor is negligible.

    The whole ASF reduction aspect of the tree is not enough to be impactful. Values on ASF since the MotU tiered armor/AML armors have gotten ridiculous.

  2. #222
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    I do mean it, that what you gave us is some good stuff but you still might as well not put this on live until you give it CHA/INT to hit and damage. That was the biggest complaint/request/suggestion and the team completely ignored it. Could you at least let us know why this isn't being considered?
    Because that allows the classes to still just have one primary stat, being as awesome as they currently are and having decent to good melee capabilities as well.
    The intended design probably is based on people sacrificing their casting stat to be a little MAD and develop a melee stat.


    tl;dr: Same reason why FvS's don't get it.

  3. #223
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    187

    Default

    I like the changes. The ASF reductions are now broken though. hopefully on the new build you guys fix the ASF on the sorc tree so it works with armors again. I'm still not sure on the capstone though. 90 second down time on a 120 second build up still seems like it's a bit to long for the buff offered. 3 big changes for me though. Pure savants are going to have more prr even more so than pure fighters, my 16 sorc/3 wiz/ 1 fighter and 16 sorc/ 2 rng / 2 barb are going to get way more defense and offensive buffs, and now any melee arcane can wear named armor instead of using greater twilight. All good stuff. Could have used more inspired cores, a reevaluation on how strong giving arcanes featless heavy armor is , and longer capstone duration. All in all my builds just got better.

    As is now I may just ditch the capstone. Have to map out if i want to go melee earth savant or dip into some melee splash for even more melee viability and defense. Easily hitting 60+ prr in heroics now with EK as is.

  4. #224
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    10,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    I do mean it, that what you gave us is some good stuff but you still might as well not put this on live until you give it CHA/INT to hit and damage. That was the biggest complaint/request/suggestion and the team completely ignored it. Could you at least let us know why this isn't being considered?
    Why should it be considered? The advantage to having this be cha/int to hit and damage is a lot more negligible then all you players put forth espcially with all the options for boosting strength in DDO. Why should every build have the option of having a non traditional stat be its to hit and damage? Quite frankly that is not the way D&D does things. Dexterity is actual more of an exception to this of non traditional stats rule with weapon finesse. Not signed to making this CHA/INT. I was never o.k. with doing so for spellsinger/warchanter or Warpriest so why should eldritch knight be any different.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  5. #225
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    197

    Default

    This tree is pretty rough on low level character's spell points. You have the drain on spell points from the elemental weapon toggle and the cost of Eldritch Strike which is higher than any other trees low level SLAs. Newer players using these abilities to their fullest and casting normal spells are going to find themselves low on spell points rather quickly. Maybe the weapon buff or Eldritch Strike could have the spell point cost lowered slightly?

  6. #226
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,878

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Thanks for the response.

    Nice to make the capstone strong - always good to see something that makes you have to consider the hard choice.

    Now ... do that with Warchanter in your spare time ;-)
    If only. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraphim View Post
    Fly? That would break every quest in the game. You would see folks falling from the sky in Korthos and dying. It would be a rain of newbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Yeah. It's not "we nuked the city from orbit", it's "the city experienced a brief population drop". Check.

  7. #227
    2015 DDO Players Council Cetus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hey everyone!
    Over the weekend, we've had a chance to read through all of your feedback on the Eldritch Knight.

    We'd like to address a couple points:

    First, we've seen a lot of negative responses about the "Improved Mage Armor" and "Improved Shield" spell-like ability enhancements.
    There's a misconception that these enhancements will do nothing, because many Eldritch Knights will have an equipped shield or armor.

    We'd like to make it clear that the purpose of these enhancements is not to just give you Mage Armor or Shield as a spell-like ability.
    They empower those spells by giving you an additional, stacking buff while those spells are active.
    Improved Mage Armor gives up to a +10% bonus to your total armor class, while Improved Shield gives +10 Physical Resistance Rating. This works regardless of if you have an equipped armor or shield.

    We feel those enhancements, due to their low cost and accessible position in the tree, are already very useful, and do not need any changes.

    That said, after assessing the other feedback, here's the improvements we plan on making:

    1: We agree that Eldritch Shield is too weak. We'll be tripling the Temporary Hit Points you gain from this enhancement. This will make it much more effective at mitigating incoming damage.

    2: Eldritch Strike's cooldown is too long. We're reducing it from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. We feel this will help it balance better in context with other arcane trees' SLA's.
    This is also an indirect buff to the capstone, Eldritch Blade, which activates every ten times you use Eldritch Strike.

    3: We're making the Arcane Spell Failure reductions work for Warforged. This was a no-brainer, and makes those armor proficiency enhancements do something for warforged.

    4: We're buffing the core capstone, Eldritch Blade, by adding an additional, more noticable effect to it. While active, in addition to +10% attack damage and +25 Spell Power, it'll also add 3d4 Force damage to your attacks.


    The above changes are being made to address the top issues that everyone’s pointed out. They’ll release in Update 20. Even if your particular feedback adjustment doesn't make it into Update 20, we’ll continue to monitor the Eldritch Knight to identify possible future adjustments. So, please continue to give us your thoughts!
    Sigh...

    I give up.

    Good luck with your new astonishingly unimaginative PrE. 3d4 force damage, 10% AC, and tripling temporary hitpoints are the most mundane uninteresting revisions I can think of. Eldritch banality is what this should be renamed to.
    YouTube Channel HERE
    Argonnessen's DEGENERATE MATTER

  8. #228
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    10,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Sigh...

    I give up.

    Good luck with your new astonishingly unimaginative PrE. 3d4 force damage, 10% AC, and tripling temporary hitpoints are the most mundane uninteresting revisions I can think of. Eldritch banality is what this should be renamed to.
    I agree I think that eldritch knight was a bad choice for a prestige enhancement to begin with. In pnp its really straightforward and I did not picture that it would translate very well to DDO. Some other prestige enhancements such as the Rage Mage would have been much more interesting and fun in DDO.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #229
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Skara Brae
    Posts
    3,023

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I agree I think that eldritch knight was a bad choice for a prestige enhancement to begin with. In pnp its really straightforward and I did not picture that it would translate very well to DDO. Some other prestige enhancements such as the Rage Mage would have been much more interesting and fun in DDO.
    I actually thought it would have been better to adapt a Arcane melee gish as a class, not a PrE. More front-line than Bard, less Support. But it looks like the only new "classes" we'll be getting are "iconics" which are barely repackaged old classes and races.

    In short, I see it as a 4 AP 15hp boost and W&S Mastery. Nothing more for a caster. Hybrids are much better ignoring most of it and going PM.

    Temporary Hit points? What is the slavish devotion to worthlessness there at Turbine? The only thing worth less than temporary hp are the temporary spell points that don't even last long enough to get through a quickened casting animation.

    A big meh. This wasn't even worth the development time.
    Anyone who disagrees is a Terrorist...

    Cthulhu 2016 Never settle for the lesser evil...

  10. #230
    Community Member Haloivae's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8

    Default

    If the devs do not want to add the Int/Chr to atk/dmg into the EK tree. Then you could at least consider possibly adding two new epic feats.

    A variant of verbose assault that only includes the chr score as the Atk/Dmg modifier and none of the other fluff

    A variant of Combat insight that allows you to use int for Atk and dmg instead of just dmg.

    you could even still require the prerequisite feat combat expertise for the combat insight feat. This would require wizards to burn an extra feat for the same thing sorcs are getting for one feat, and would require the character to be at least lvl 21 to get this dmg/atk modifier. I don't think this would be game breaking and would have no effect on EK builds in heroic levels. It would also be usable by all builds and not just EKs.

  11. #231
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canada,Ontario, GTA
    Posts
    6,882

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    ASF will still wreck you.
    Light armor gives 5% ASF reduction
    Medium Armor gives 5% ASF reduction (total 10%)
    So logically Heavy Armor would grant another 5% reduction (for 15%)
    Add in Still spell for 15% = 30% reduction allowing for Half Plate no ASF
    Craft a Lesser Arcane Dexterity Item = 35% reduction which allows fullplate

    This is w/o having to worry about fitting on twilight

    Note: I think Heavy Armor prof should be a Lvl 18 Core ability instead of within the tree. (I'd be ok with a Tier 5 ability if necessary but once spellsword gets compressed to a single enhancement there will be plenty of room in the core line)
    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Shield ASF on top of it.
    Heavy shields = Base 15% ASF
    Still spell alone reduces that to 0% alone.

    Tower Shield = 50
    +Still Spell = 35
    + EK reduction = 30
    + Arcane casting Dexterity = 20
    + Greater Twilight = 0%

    Using a Tower shield isn't practical but it IS possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Also, you're still a 1/2 BAB class at heart, so the PRR you gain from heavy armor is negligible.
    Tensers (spell or toggle) = 20 BAB


    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Because that allows the classes to still just have one primary stat, being as awesome as they currently are and having decent to good melee capabilities as well.
    The intended design probably is based on people sacrificing their casting stat to be a little MAD and develop a melee stat.


    tl;dr: Same reason why FvS's don't get it.
    Funny thats the exact same argument people used against rogues getting Dex to damage. Besides theres advantages to mainlining strength instead its about options not about trying to make them OP (Maddmatt explains this point nicely for me later in this post whilst trying to disprove me...thanks matt)

    Also its not like Sorcs getting Cha to damage is impossible it just locks them into PDKs...all that accomplishes is limiting build variety and is a massive slap in the face to Wizard EKs.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Why should it be considered? The advantage to having this be cha/int to hit and damage is a lot more negligible then all you players put forth espcially with all the options for boosting strength in DDO.
    Thats kind of the point your either choose between mixing a little bit of magic and melee by going int or cha to atk/dmg OR you go full ****** Str (which can get WAY higher than other stats and use your arcaneiness to buff yourself. It about CHOICES!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Why should every build have the option of having a non traditional stat be its to hit and damage? Quite frankly that is not the way D&D does things
    I beg to differ. (This is all 3.5 material so no blaming my examples on "4e")

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

    http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4369.0

    Here's a list on the official WOTC Forums I'd normally post this first but the forum is busted so its all messed up...posted for completeness only.
    http://community.wizards.com/forum/p...threads/942596


    Being able to do whatever suits your character is the foundation of DnD, DDO and tabletop roleplaying in general. It's what makes this game despite all the bugs stand out amongst all the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloivae View Post
    If the devs do not want to add the Int/Chr to atk/dmg into the EK tree. Then you could at least consider possibly adding two new epic feats.

    A variant of verbose assault that only includes the chr score as the Atk/Dmg modifier and none of the other fluff

    A variant of Combat insight that allows you to use int for Atk and dmg instead of just dmg.
    Dex to damage was removed from Shadowdancer for a reason...what are you supposed to do from Lvl 1-20 w/o an atk/dmg stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I agree I think that eldritch knight was a bad choice for a prestige enhancement to begin with. In pnp its really straightforward and I did not picture that it would translate very well to DDO. Some other prestige enhancements such as the Rage Mage would have been much more interesting and fun in DDO.
    A mix of Wild Mage and Rage Mage would have been insanely cool. (and RM naturally comes with ASF reduction as well :P)

    The increased spell DC/using char level instead of caster level when raging would help offset the fact that your casting stat would be lower. (Also free quicken whilst raging)

    Warriors Cry would translate well as a Tensers SLA (or just a toggle like EK)

    Wild Mages "chaotic outcomes" just fits in my opinion...sure you can cast whilst raging you face off but occasionally you could either overdo it and make your little fireball do a bigger boom (good outcome) or mess up your sepll and turn yourself into a barrel for 30 seconds (bad outcome...bad outcomes should only effect yourself not party members because hurting allies means no one wants to play with you.

    I would love to do some sort of Sorc/Barb mix to make a shaman.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-22-2013 at 12:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #232
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,379

    Default

    I still think that the elemental damage toggles shouldn't be core abilities, for the same reason that the monk toggles in all three of their class trees are not core abilities. Now, some additional fortitude saves and hit points would be welcome, along with the force spellpower that is already in the tree.

    Also... how about increased elemental absorbtion when using a shield, or a doublestrike boost? These would be very useful for a shield-wielder.

  13. #233
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    187

    Default

    Asf is definately not a problem. 10% asf from ek core + 10% from armor prof enchantments + 15% from still spell = 35% alone. 15% global reduction from blue aug + 20% from greater twilight if you still have to have it. Your looking at 70% possible at the moment with EK now in the mix. My melee sorc already has had full mountain plates lined up before ek even got here now he can wear named plate without even having to craft. I could even save ap if i want to with a 15% aug.

    I still do not get where the casters won't be able to cast argument is coming from for cha/int hit/ damage. on a first life 28 point build two weapon fighting 16 sorc/2rng/2barb I managed 45-50 hit rating before my attack chain. I had 20 extra hit coming to me after I got EDs and actual at level gear and better weapons. I had no problem hitting things on a 15 str base with only 3 level up equaling a 18 base a 20. Tenser also gives epic BaB so we are never behind a 1 BaB class.

    There are plenty of persistent aoes and single target spells to go around with 0 spell pen or dc requirements. Thankfully most of them happen to be dots which is exactly what an EK would need to actually melee dps instead of spell spam. Earth, fire,cold and force (at least chain missile) all have good options to mix and match together.
    Last edited by Exiledtyrant; 10-22-2013 at 12:11 AM.

  14. #234
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canada,Ontario, GTA
    Posts
    6,882

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    I still think that the elemental damage toggles shouldn't be core abilities, for the same reason that the monk toggles in all three of their class trees are not core abilities. Now, some additional fortitude saves and hit points would be welcome, along with the force spellpower that is already in the tree.
    I honestly don't care where it is as long as its a single enhancement

    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Also... how about increased elemental absorbtion when using a shield, or a doublestrike boost? These would be very useful for a shield-wielder.
    I'd rather they not limit them to shields...shields have nothing to do with EKs...traditionally EKs (and spellswords) have a stave, an orb or a spell in their off-hand. AT least offer an alternative to shields make anything shild related a multi-selector

    ie.

    Shield Training OR Eldritch Combatant
    Elemental Resistance OR Improved Eldritch Combatant
    Shield Striking OR Greater Eldritch Combatant

    EC: When fighting with an orb in your off-hand, you gain 1 temporary spell point and +1 universal spellpower on-hit, 3 temporary SP and USP on crit, and 5 temporary SP and USP on vorpal for X seconds <insert standard language for disappearing stacks here>.
    IEC: Orbs Boni to Saves and Energy Resist no longer requires you to be actively blocking (blocking doubles the effect instead)
    GEC:Any 1-handed weapon gains +1 to Crit range and your touch/ranged touch spells no longer have a level cap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  15. #235
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    187

    Default

    The more mock builds I draw up and test the harder it is becoming for me to justify the EK capstone over the Savant capstone. 67 PRR, 100% more fort, and 40 extra spell power vs 42 PRR 35 more force and 10% melee damage every 30 seconds out of 120. The new change did shave 30 seconds off the build up and I am not sure if this 3d4 force power will scale(been hard finding good impulse spell power items to boot). Be a tough decision at 20 for a pure.

    Maybe it's a lack of control over the capstone in comparison to a melee action boosts. I can "turn it on" and really pump dps during certain parts of a quest using my human or splashed boosts. This is just whenever if I spam cleave every 120 seconds. I'm pretty sure most things die within the 2 mins it's going to take to build up to begin with.
    Last edited by Exiledtyrant; 10-22-2013 at 12:54 AM.

  16. #236
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canada,Ontario, GTA
    Posts
    6,882

    Default

    I've been trying to roll up a mock build (Mixing Earth Savant and EK) and without heavy multi-classing there's just not enough feats to make an effective hybrid...your either melee OR magic (defeating the purpose of a hybrid) or some sort of mix that makes you horrible at both.

    Without some sort of line similar to THF or the Shield Line there's no way to actually be a hybrid w/o heavy multi-classing the lack of Cha/Int makes it even more horrible everything is spread WAY to thin for this to be effective as a Sorc

    I really think that EK should get a "unique" line that focuses on 1-handed weapons and Orbs...I'm VERY open to suggestion but this is what I'm thinking

    EC: When fighting with an orb in your off-hand, you gain 1 temporary spell point and +1 universal spellpower on-hit, 3 temporary SP and USP on crit, and 5 temporary SP and USP on vorpal for X seconds <insert standard language for disappearing stacks here>.
    IEC: Orbs Boni to Saves and Energy Resist no longer requires you to be actively blocking (blocking doubles the effect instead)
    GEC:Any 1-handed weapon gains +1 to Crit range and your touch/ranged touch spells no longer have a level cap.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-22-2013 at 02:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  17. #237
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    187

    Default

    what feats are you having trouble fitting in?

    I only role humans so I always assume the basic 8. Two weapon fighting so that Force of personality, Two weapon fighting, Maximize, Empower, Improved two weapon fighting, Two weapon defense, Improved crit, extend. Honestly extend is a luxury could fit a mental toughness in instead. Two weapon defense is also up to debate. Can mean the difference of about 1-3% physical damage reduction depending on build.

    Two handed fighting. same deal except cleave and great cleave instead of two weapon fighting feats, and two handed fighting/ improved can take two weapon defense and extend slots.

    Any 16 sorc / 4 martial splash can take care of any extra feats if you need more melee and net you the 11 BaB feats at 18 instead of 21.

    At 20 on 16 sorc /2 rng/ 2 barb I was doing about 30-40s per mace regular and 90-120s on criticals with untyped damage in 8-88 per mace averaging about 130-150 per mace on crit. My spells did around 150-500 on critcal per dot tick depending on what I used and those happened a lot at 28% spell crit. I'd say the damage was decent at 20 and it was enough for the epic normals I tried before I grinded challenges for my TR.

    Had I updated my gear past level 12s and 14s besides 3 AC pieces I'm sure it would have been more than enough.

    If the problem was tactical feats I would say it would best be attempted on a Wizard. More feats to fit in. Sorc EKs in my opinion are the damage options as they have more spell power and damage effects open to them, Wizards are going to be more utility based and harder to kill.

    Sword and orb would be neat. Be a nice change of pace even if other damage options are still available already.

  18. #238
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    5,421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Sigh...

    I give up.

    Good luck with your new astonishingly unimaginative PrE. 3d4 force damage, 10% AC, and tripling temporary hitpoints are the most mundane uninteresting revisions I can think of. Eldritch banality is what this should be renamed to.
    Wait, you think 30 Temporary HP is not good??? HOW DARE YOU!! I'M SPLASHING 5 LEVEL OF SORCS JUST FOR THAT!
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  19. #239
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Cackalacky
    Posts
    9,593

    Default

    Also remember, this isn't an either-or question for lots of builds. I'd definitely take a few of the lower level bits on a pure savant caster.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  20. #240
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Why should it be considered? The advantage to having this be cha/int to hit and damage is a lot more negligible then all you players put forth espcially with all the options for boosting strength in DDO. Why should every build have the option of having a non traditional stat be its to hit and damage? Quite frankly that is not the way D&D does things. Dexterity is actual more of an exception to this of non traditional stats rule with weapon finesse. Not signed to making this CHA/INT. I was never o.k. with doing so for spellsinger/warchanter or Warpriest so why should eldritch knight be any different.
    How about, for each core enhancement, you increase your one handed weapon's enhancement bonus by +1, to a maximum of half caster stat modifier. All one handed weapons are treated as implements.

    It's not quite cha/int for attack/dmg but it's there somewhat, and relies on core progression.

    Still think there needs to be some synergy with touch and close ranged spells, because an EK will be on the front lines.

Page 12 of 16 FirstFirst ... 28910111213141516 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload