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  1. #201
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    I wanted to drop in and thank everyone for the great feedback!

    Squeak's compiled all of it for me in a very shiny e-mail with graphs and charts and all the best bells and whistles.

    We'll be evaluating it early next week with an eye for selecting some things as action items to improve before this tree goes live.
    F_o_S, why don't you show up in DevTracker?

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    F_o_S, why don't you show up in DevTracker?
    Click the one that says "Lamannia Dev Tracker". It's separate from the main forums. Lamannia posts don't show up on the main Dev Tracker.

  3. #203
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    I wanted to drop in and thank everyone for the great feedback!

    Squeak's compiled all of it for me in a very shiny e-mail with graphs and charts and all the best bells and whistles.

    We'll be evaluating it early next week with an eye for selecting some things as action items to improve before this tree goes live.
    The problem with this method is that it means any feedback given after squeak compiled his cliff notes version of it might as well have not been written. Target-lock on the likely source of communication failures between turbine and the forums. Methodology is important. The people acting on our feedback are getting the second hand version of it and then picking out things to act on. The phrase "Lost in Translation" occurs to me. I can't wait to see how this turns out. (Note that I am open to the possibility that my hypothesis is wrong, but I am interested to see either way.)
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  4. #204
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    The problem with this method is that it means any feedback given after squeak compiled his cliff notes version of it might as well have not been written. Target-lock on the likely source of communication failures between turbine and the forums. Methodology is important. The people acting on our feedback are getting the second hand version of it and then picking out things to act on. The phrase "Lost in Translation" occurs to me. I can't wait to see how this turns out. (Note that I am open to the possibility that my hypothesis is wrong, but I am interested to see either way.)
    Lammania is more about debugging then anything else. It has really always been too late feedback wise to make much of a difference. The only exception to this is when Turbine has a legitimate Alpha/Beta. I saw a lot of lammania suggestions make it in with the epic destinies in the alpha testing. If you want to really see your feedback make a difference you probably have to join mournlands. Now larger or bigger picture types of feedback can make difference down the road. The warpriest was an example of that. People complained about not having a melee oriented FVS/Cleric enhancement and they got it the next update.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  5. #205
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Lammania is more about debugging then anything else. It has really always been too late feedback wise to make much of a difference. The only exception to this is when Turbine has a legitimate Alpha/Beta. I saw a lot of lammania suggestions make it in with the epic destinies in the alpha testing. If you want to really see your feedback make a difference you probably have to join mournlands. Now larger or bigger picture types of feedback can make difference down the road. The warpriest was an example of that. People complained about not having a melee oriented FVS/Cleric enhancement and they got it the next update.
    Sometimes I really question how this stuff makes it past the mournlanders...any chance a dev can hook me up with a mournlands tester request form or w/e.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #206
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Sometimes I really question how this stuff makes it past the mournlanders...any chance a dev can hook me up with a mournlands tester request form or w/e.
    same way the dupe bug make out from lam~~ if they allow dupe to go on live.. i guess they will allow anything

  7. #207
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    After reading this thread, I would like to offer my proposed changes.

    Eldritch Knight (EK)
    Core Enhancements

    Lvl 1: Eldritch Strike (as current)
    Passive: +1% doublestrike, +1% for each additional Core enhancement
    Each point in EK grants you 0.5 Universal Spellpower.

    Lvl 3: Armor Training: You gain proficiency with all Armors.
    Your equipped armor gains the Twilight Property.

    Lvl 6: Eldritch Aura: (Toggle) While activated, you gain the following effects:
    You can use Int or Cha to Attack/Damage with melee weapons.
    Mage Armor, Master's Touch, Shield, Tumble.
    Your wielded weapon and shield gain a +1 Enhancement bonus and the Ghost Touch property.
    In addition, they are treated as a Spellcasting Implements.
    Eldritch Aura drains 1 spellpoint each 6 seconds.

    Lvl 12: Eldritch Armor (Passive): You gain DR 10/adamantine.
    You gain the Arcane Barrier enhancement.
    Your equipped armor gains the Greater Twilight Property.

    Lvl 18: Battlemage Tactics (Choose 1):
    You gain the Improved Feint feat and +3d6 Sneak Attack damage die,
    OR you gain the Precision feat.
    Passive: You gain +10 Force Spell Power.

    Lvl 20: Eldritch Blade (same).
    Passive: +2 Int OR +2 Charisma, +10 Force Spellpower.


    4 PATHS

    I) Spellsword
    T1 - T4: Choose one of the following toggles (same as stated).
    Spellsword: Acid
    Spellsword: Flame
    Spellsword: Frost
    Spellsword: Shock
    T5: Eldritch Tempest (as stated, except requires all 4 Spellsword enhancements)
    In addition, Eldritch Strike and Eldritch Tempest abilities gain On Damage: gain 5 Temporary spell points.

    II) Fighting Styles (Select 1 of 2)
    Sword + Shield
    Requires a shield in your Offhand. Must select lower tier to get access to higher tier.

    T1: +5%/+10%/+15% Shield Armor AC and Tower Shield MDB +1/+2/+3.
    Your ASF from wielding a shield decreases by 5%/10%/15%.

    T2: You gain the Improved Shield Bashing feat

    T3: Shield Striking (as stated)

    T4: You gain the Shield Deflection feat.

    T5: You gain the Improved Shield Mastery feat (requires Shield Mastery feat).

    Sword + Orb
    Requires an Orb equiped in your Offhand. Must select lower tier to get access to higher tier.

    T1: Your mainhand weapon gains the Improved Shattermantle weapon property.
    Your Orb bonus increases by +1.

    T2: You gain the Improved Sunder feat.

    T3: Your mainhand weapon gains the Improved Cursespewing weapon property
    Your Orb bonus increases by +1.

    T4: You gain the Improved THF feat (requires THF feat).

    T5: You gain the Greater THF feat (requires Improved THF and THF feats.)

    III) Eldritch Aura
    Improved Eldritch Aura:
    (Chose 1 of 3)
    T1: Eldritch Aura: Armor Class: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +10%/+20%/+35% increase to your total armor.
    T2: Eldritch Aura: Physical Resistance: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +5/+10/+15 prr.
    T3: Eldritch Armor: Saving Throws: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +1/+2/+3 bonus to all saving throws.

    Greater Eldritch Aura (Cost 2 AP each):
    (Must choose lower tier enhancement to get to higher tiers)
    T3: Eldritch Aura: Blur: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain 20% concealment.
    T4: Eldritch Aura: Dodge: When under the effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +3% Dodge.
    T5: Eldritch Aura: Ghostly: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain 10% incorporeality.

    IV) Generalist
    T1: Battlemage: +1/+2/+3 to Concentration, Balance, Jump.
    T1: Toughness (as stated)
    T2: Wand and Scroll Mastery (as stated)
    T2: Nimble Reaction: +1/+2/+3 Armor MDB and Maximum Dodge Bonus.
    T4: Still Spell: -5%/-10%/-15% ASF.
    T5: Battlemastery: Doublestrike 1%/2%/3% and +1%/+2%/+3% Force Spell critical chance.
    T5: Tenser's Transformation (Toggle)
    Your ideas are interesting. However I. Your sword and orb line why are you giving THF and improved THF. They do no good. They only work with 2 one handed weapons in the game...bastard sword and dwarven axe. Personally I would replace that with your orb giving an actual shield bonus. Light and then heavy at the appropriate tier shield bonus.

  8. #208
    2015 DDO Players Council Artagon's Avatar
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    I really like the abilities for Improved Mage Armor and Improved Shield. While I welcome other changes to the line, please for the love of all that is holy, don't remove them as an option or you'll ruin my Arcane Tank build I already have up to 15 on live in preparation for this line, lol.

  9. #209
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artagon View Post
    I really like the abilities for Improved Mage Armor and Improved Shield. While I welcome other changes to the line, please for the love of all that is holy, don't remove them as an option or you'll ruin my Arcane Tank build I already have up to 15 on live in preparation for this line, lol.
    Its probably a good idea to avoid making builds based off of lammania content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post


    Lvl 3: Armor Training: You gain proficiency with all Armors.
    Your equipped armor gains the Twilight Property.
    I like the change to twilight instead of X% reduction

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    Lvl 6: Eldritch Aura: (Toggle) While activated, you gain the following effects:
    You can use Int or Cha to Attack/Damage with melee weapons.
    Mage Armor, Master's Touch, Shield, Tumble.
    Your wielded weapon and shield/orb gain a +1 Enhancement bonus and the Ghost Touch property.
    In addition, they are treated as a Spellcasting Implements.
    Eldritch Aura drains 1 spellpoint each 6 seconds.
    I really like this addition...I'm assuming those listed buffs are part of your aura...I'm also assuming the "aura" is self only...maybe different name is in order to avoid confusion.

    Also I really think this would fit better at Lvl 3...otherwise for at least 5 levels an EK will have nothing to do...with the first 2 levels it doesn't really matter.

    Added /orb to the +1 enchantment bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    Lvl 12: Eldritch Armor (Passive): You gain DR 10/adamantine.
    You gain the Arcane Barrier enhancement.
    Your equipped armor gains the Greater Twilight Property.
    Again Twilight instead of flat ASF reduction is a cool idea

    Why /Adamantine? that makes absolutely no sense...also DR is useless PRR is better

    Also the "arcane barrier" enhancement is useless as is...I'd say something more like this

    Eldritch Barrier (SLA similar to Arty's Radiant Force Shield...cooldown 12min/6min/3min seconds duration 30 seconds + 6 seconds per level...Metas: Quicken & Extend)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    Lvl 18: Battlemage Tactics (Choose 1):
    You gain the Improved Feint feat and +3d6 Sneak Attack damage die,
    OR you gain the Precision feat.
    Neither of these makes sense EK nor spellsword nor abjuration champion have anything to do with sneak attacking or precision or feinting

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    Lvl 20: Eldritch Blade (same).
    Passive: +2 Int OR +2 Charisma, +10 Force Spellpower.
    This does not make me want to go single-class

    Maybe this: +25 Force SP,+1 Crit Multiplier w/1-h Weapons and +2 Int or Cha


    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    I) Spellsword
    T1 - T4: Choose one of the following toggles (same as stated).
    Spellsword: Acid
    Spellsword: Flame
    Spellsword: Frost
    Spellsword: Shock
    Should be a single enhancement that allows use of all 4 elements...it should also be a core enhancement (again only 1) I'd say core 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T5: Eldritch Tempest (as stated, except requires all 4 Spellsword enhancements)
    In addition, Eldritch Strike and Eldritch Tempest abilities gain On Damage: gain 5 Temporary spell points.
    Should definitely NOT require all 4 (or even in my case 1 spellsword enhancement)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    II) Fighting Styles (Select 1 of 2)
    Sword + Shield
    Requires a shield in your Offhand. Must select lower tier to get access to higher tier.
    Makes sense...I like that you specify off-hand :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T1: +5%/+10%/+15% Shield Armor AC and Tower Shield MDB +1/+2/+3.
    Your ASF from wielding a shield decreases by 5%/10%/15%.
    Replace with gain Twilight/Twilight/Greater Twilight on any equipped shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T2: You gain the Improved Shield Bashing feat

    T3: Shield Striking (as stated)

    T4: You gain the Shield Deflection feat.

    T5: You gain the Improved Shield Mastery feat (requires Shield Mastery feat).
    Works for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    Sword + Orb
    Requires an Orb equipped in your Offhand. Must select lower tier to get access to higher tier.
    Need not be a "sword" any 1-handed weapon should suffice

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T1: Your mainhand weapon gains the Improved Shattermantle weapon property.
    Your Orb bonus increases by +1.

    T3: Your mainhand weapon gains the Improved Cursespewing weapon property
    Your Orb bonus increases by +1.
    These abilities are nice but I don't really see how they relates to fighting with a 1-handed weapon and an orb also remove the +X Orb bonus and move it to the Eldritch Aura

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T2: You gain the Improved Sunder feat.
    Requires Str to use, counter intuitive and has nothing to do with an orb user at all

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T4: You gain the Improved THF feat (requires THF feat).

    T5: You gain the Greater THF feat (requires Improved THF and THF feats.)
    you can't wield a 2-handed weapon and an orb at the same time...these feats are pointless

    How about something more like this that actually focuses on the combat style instead of giving random effects

    Eldritch Combatant Line:

    EC: When fighting with an orb in your off-hand, you gain 1 temporary spell point and +1 universal spellpower on-hit, 3 temporary SP and USP on crit, and 5 temporary SP and USP on vorpal for X seconds <insert standard language for disappearing stacks here>.
    IEC: Any 1-handed weapon gains +1 to Crit range and your touch/ranged touch spells no longer have a level cap.
    GEC: Orbs Boni to Saves and Energy Resist no longer requires you to be actively blocking (blocking doubles the effect instead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    III) Eldritch Aura
    Improved Eldritch Aura:
    (Chose 1 of 3)
    T1: Eldritch Aura: Armor Class: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +10%/+20%/+35% increase to your total armor.
    T2: Eldritch Aura: Physical Resistance: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +5/+10/+15 prr.
    T3: Eldritch Armor: Saving Throws: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +1/+2/+3 bonus to all saving throws.

    Greater Eldritch Aura (Cost 2 AP each):
    (Must choose lower tier enhancement to get to higher tiers)
    T3: Eldritch Aura: Blur: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain 20% concealment.
    T4: Eldritch Aura: Dodge: When under the effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain +3% Dodge.
    T5: Eldritch Aura: Ghostly: When under effect of your Eldritch Aura, you gain 10% incorporeality.
    I have no complaints about these


    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T1: Battlemage: +1/+2/+3 to Concentration, Balance, Jump.
    Intimidate bonus in this made sense...Jump is not required...cast jump. Make it Concen, Balance, Intim

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T1: Toughness (as stated)
    T2: Wand and Scroll Mastery (as stated)
    T2: Nimble Reaction: +1/+2/+3 Armor MDB and Maximum Dodge Bonus.
    T4: Still Spell: -5%/-10%/-15% ASF.
    These are all fine

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T5: Battlemastery: Doublestrike 1%/2%/3% and +1%/+2%/+3% Force Spell critical chance.
    This is just boring and definitely not worth a tier 5 slot. It would be fine at tier 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Arashiro View Post
    T5: Tenser's Transformation (Toggle)
    This may remain as is...really should be a core ability though...say Core 12
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-21-2013 at 11:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #210
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Anyone check the toggles w/ ranged or throwing weapons? Are they melee only?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Anyone check the toggles w/ ranged or throwing weapons? Are they melee only?
    Core toggles work with ranged as of latest Lama.

    Hopefully, WAI...

  12. #212

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    Hey everyone!
    Over the weekend, we've had a chance to read through all of your feedback on the Eldritch Knight.

    We'd like to address a couple points:

    First, we've seen a lot of negative responses about the "Improved Mage Armor" and "Improved Shield" spell-like ability enhancements.
    There's a misconception that these enhancements will do nothing, because many Eldritch Knights will have an equipped shield or armor.

    We'd like to make it clear that the purpose of these enhancements is not to just give you Mage Armor or Shield as a spell-like ability.
    They empower those spells by giving you an additional, stacking buff while those spells are active.
    Improved Mage Armor gives up to a +10% bonus to your total armor class, while Improved Shield gives +10 Physical Resistance Rating. This works regardless of if you have an equipped armor or shield.

    We feel those enhancements, due to their low cost and accessible position in the tree, are already very useful, and do not need any changes.

    That said, after assessing the other feedback, here's the improvements we plan on making:

    1: We agree that Eldritch Shield is too weak. We'll be tripling the Temporary Hit Points you gain from this enhancement. This will make it much more effective at mitigating incoming damage.

    2: Eldritch Strike's cooldown is too long. We're reducing it from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. We feel this will help it balance better in context with other arcane trees' SLA's.
    This is also an indirect buff to the capstone, Eldritch Blade, which activates every ten times you use Eldritch Strike.

    3: We're making the Arcane Spell Failure reductions work for Warforged. This was a no-brainer, and makes those armor proficiency enhancements do something for warforged.

    4: We're buffing the core capstone, Eldritch Blade, by adding an additional, more noticable effect to it. While active, in addition to +10% attack damage and +25 Spell Power, it'll also add 3d4 Force damage to your attacks.


    The above changes are being made to address the top issues that everyone’s pointed out. They’ll release in Update 20. Even if your particular feedback adjustment doesn't make it into Update 20, we’ll continue to monitor the Eldritch Knight to identify possible future adjustments. So, please continue to give us your thoughts!
    Last edited by Feather_of_Sun; 10-21-2013 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Edit for formatting and clarity.

  13. #213
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hey everyone!
    Over the weekend, we've had a chance to read through all of your feedback on the Eldritch Knight.

    We'd like to address a couple points:

    First, we've seen a lot of negative responses about the "Improved Mage Armor" and "Improved Shield" spell-like ability enhancements.
    There's a misconception that these enhancements will do nothing, because many Eldritch Knights will have an equipped shield or armor.

    We'd like to make it clear that the purpose of these enhancements is not to just give you Mage Armor or Shield as a spell-like ability.
    They empower those spells by giving you an additional, stacking buff while those spells are active.
    Improved Mage Armor gives up to a +10% bonus to your total armor class, while Improved Shield gives +10 Physical Resistance Rating. This works regardless of if you have an equipped armor or shield.

    We feel those enhancements, due to their low cost and accessible position in the tree, are already very useful, and do not need any changes.

    That said, after assessing the other feedback, here's the improvements we plan on making:

    1: We agree that Eldritch Shield is too weak. We'll be tripling the Temporary Hit Points you gain from this enhancement. This will make it much more effective at mitigating incoming damage.

    2: Eldritch Strike's cooldown is too long. We're reducing it from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. We feel this will help it balance better in context with other arcane trees' SLA's.
    This is also an indirect buff to the capstone, Eldritch Blade, which activates every ten times you use Eldritch Strike.

    3: We're making the Arcane Spell Failure reductions work for Warforged. This was a no-brainer, and makes those armor proficiency enhancements do something for warforged.

    4: We're buffing the core capstone, Eldritch Blade, by adding an additional, more noticable effect to it. While active, in addition to +10% attack damage and +25 Spell Power, it'll also add 3d4 Force damage to your attacks.


    All of the posted feedback was read and taken into account. The above are the changes we believe are appropriate and feasible to implement for the debut of this enhancement tree with Update 20.
    Thank you all for the feedback everyone has provided.
    Thanks for the response.

    Nice to make the capstone strong - always good to see something that makes you have to consider the hard choice.

    Now ... do that with Warchanter in your spare time ;-)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  14. #214
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hey everyone!
    Over the weekend, we've had a chance to read through all of your feedback on the Eldritch Knight.

    We'd like to address a couple points:

    First, we've seen a lot of negative responses about the "Improved Mage Armor" and "Improved Shield" spell-like ability enhancements.
    There's a misconception that these enhancements will do nothing, because many Eldritch Knights will have an equipped shield or armor.

    We'd like to make it clear that the purpose of these enhancements is not to just give you Mage Armor or Shield as a spell-like ability.
    They empower those spells by giving you an additional, stacking buff while those spells are active.
    Improved Mage Armor gives up to a +10% bonus to your total armor class, while Improved Shield gives +10 Physical Resistance Rating. This works regardless of if you have an equipped armor or shield.

    We feel those enhancements, due to their low cost and accessible position in the tree, are already very useful, and do not need any changes.

    That said, after assessing the other feedback, here's the improvements we plan on making:

    1: We agree that Eldritch Shield is too weak. We'll be tripling the Temporary Hit Points you gain from this enhancement. This will make it much more effective at mitigating incoming damage.

    2: Eldritch Strike's cooldown is too long. We're reducing it from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. We feel this will help it balance better in context with other arcane trees' SLA's.
    This is also an indirect buff to the capstone, Eldritch Blade, which activates every ten times you use Eldritch Strike.

    3: We're making the Arcane Spell Failure reductions work for Warforged. This was a no-brainer, and makes those armor proficiency enhancements do something for warforged.

    4: We're buffing the core capstone, Eldritch Blade, by adding an additional, more noticable effect to it. While active, in addition to +10% attack damage and +25 Spell Power, it'll also add 3d4 Force damage to your attacks.


    The above changes are being made to address the top issues that everyone’s pointed out. They’ll release in Update 20. Even if your particular feedback adjustment doesn't make it into Update 20, we’ll continue to monitor the Eldritch Knight to identify possible future adjustments. So, please continue to give us your thoughts!
    It's good to see some changes so far, but a lot of people were hoping for INT/CHA for to-hit and/or damage someplace in the tree. Any word on if or when on that?
    .:Sarlona - ELH:. Inamorata (TR11 Completionist WIP) / Groundloop (TR2) / Signalmixer (TR) / Serraphiia (TR)
    Angelorum (TR) / Darqchylde / Aetherielle / Rashree / Colordepth / Wintremoon / Tarrynn
    Amarizi / Genozid / Arising / Tenpercenter / Ellixia / Zecele / Harika / Lainiel / Zephale

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    So, please continue to give us your thoughts!
    I still don't see much reason go to more than T2 in the tree, and the first Core, which means EK is still better suited for martial splashing than for making an arcane melee fighter.

    T2 gives you those PRR and AC bonuses you mentioned (which do more for an actual martial class), and the offensive toggle and attack. Anything more just gives you...other toggles you cant use at the same time? Armor class bonuses, when AC is not effective at endgame? And ASF, when wearing armor is pointless anyway?

    EK seems more of a newb trap than a fully-realized PrE. I could build a much better EK with 17 Fighter/3 Wiz than I could with 18 Wiz/2 Fighter, and anytime a PrE is more useful to OTHER classes than the class it belongs to, that's a problem.

    Even on a pure Wiz, you're still better off going deep into PM for a melee fighter-caster, and then just dipping into the EK side.

  16. #216
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hey everyone!
    Over the weekend, we've had a chance to read through all of your feedback on the Eldritch Knight.

    We'd like to address a couple points:

    First, we've seen a lot of negative responses about the "Improved Mage Armor" and "Improved Shield" spell-like ability enhancements.
    There's a misconception that these enhancements will do nothing, because many Eldritch Knights will have an equipped shield or armor.

    We'd like to make it clear that the purpose of these enhancements is not to just give you Mage Armor or Shield as a spell-like ability.
    They empower those spells by giving you an additional, stacking buff while those spells are active.
    Improved Mage Armor gives up to a +10% bonus to your total armor class, while Improved Shield gives +10 Physical Resistance Rating. This works regardless of if you have an equipped armor or shield.
    I'm not sure who didn't get it. However, Armor Class is irrelevant in the current endgame. Dodge, DR, more HP are all better bonuses that could be added to the Mage Armor SLA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hey everyone!
    We feel those enhancements, due to their low cost and accessible position in the tree, are already very useful, and do not need any changes.
    Then why do we even bother with feedback? This is really ****ing me off. It's already set in stone so put it on live and call it a day. Why should we keep on wasting time giving constructive feedbacks when, as you said, you don't even look at it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    1: We agree that Eldritch Shield is too weak. We'll be tripling the Temporary Hit Points you gain from this enhancement. This will make it much more effective at mitigating incoming damage.
    Triple the uselessness. Hurray. Did you even read our feedbacks? Temporary HP ARE USELESS. USELESS. USELESS. USELESS. Instead of +10 Temporary HP, we get +30 now?! Are you even serious? IT'S A TIER FIVE ABILITY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    2: Eldritch Strike's cooldown is too long. We're reducing it from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. We feel this will help it balance better in context with other arcane trees' SLA's.
    This is also an indirect buff to the capstone, Eldritch Blade, which activates every ten times you use Eldritch Strike.
    Better than nothing, I guess. Doesn't thrill me too much. Make it 9 and we are good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    3: We're making the Arcane Spell Failure reductions work for Warforged. This was a no-brainer, and makes those armor proficiency enhancements do something for warforged.
    Combine togheter the gazillion -ASF we have in the tree already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    4: We're buffing the core capstone, Eldritch Blade, by adding an additional, more noticable effect to it. While active, in addition to +10% attack damage and +25 Spell Power, it'll also add 3d4 Force damage to your attacks.
    The duration is still too low to be a Capstone. 30 seconds every 120 seconds is just ****. Double its duration and we are talking. Not worth the capstone slot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The above changes are being made to address the top issues that everyone’s pointed out. They’ll release in Update 20. Even if your particular feedback adjustment doesn't make it into Update 20, we’ll continue to monitor the Eldritch Knight to identify possible future adjustments. So, please continue to give us your thoughts!
    Let's see:

    - No fix to the 4 useless Spellsword cores.
    - Spellsword cores still won't be activated togheter
    - Arcane Barrier not improved.
    - Arcane Barrier is still a pre-req of Tensers
    - No new shiny thing.

    This tree is just..not appealing as it is.

    Not happy with this fixes. Everyone complained about the Cores but you didn't give a **** about them. Not good.
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  17. #217
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I still don't see much reason go to more than T2 in the tree, and the first Core, which means EK is still better suited for martial splashing than for making an arcane melee fighter.

    Even on a pure Wiz, you're still better off going deep into PM for a melee fighter-caster, and then just dipping into the EK side.
    QFT

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    ASF, when wearing armor is pointless anyway?
    I would add that the ASF reduction you can get from the EK tree is enough to counter that of heavy armor... only EKs don't get to wear heavy armor.

    so ... pointless ASF? or splashing oriented?

    either way, makes little sense to me.
    that's like adding greatsword damage enhancements to a monk tree. they can't use it unless they splash.

  18. #218
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hey everyone!
    Over the weekend, we've had a chance to read through all of your feedback on the Eldritch Knight.

    We'd like to address a couple points:

    First, we've seen a lot of negative responses about the "Improved Mage Armor" and "Improved Shield" spell-like ability enhancements.
    There's a misconception that these enhancements will do nothing, because many Eldritch Knights will have an equipped shield or armor.

    We'd like to make it clear that the purpose of these enhancements is not to just give you Mage Armor or Shield as a spell-like ability.
    They empower those spells by giving you an additional, stacking buff while those spells are active.
    Improved Mage Armor gives up to a +10% bonus to your total armor class, while Improved Shield gives +10 Physical Resistance Rating. This works regardless of if you have an equipped armor or shield.

    We feel those enhancements, due to their low cost and accessible position in the tree, are already very useful, and do not need any changes.

    That said, after assessing the other feedback, here's the improvements we plan on making:

    1: We agree that Eldritch Shield is too weak. We'll be tripling the Temporary Hit Points you gain from this enhancement. This will make it much more effective at mitigating incoming damage.

    2: Eldritch Strike's cooldown is too long. We're reducing it from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. We feel this will help it balance better in context with other arcane trees' SLA's.
    This is also an indirect buff to the capstone, Eldritch Blade, which activates every ten times you use Eldritch Strike.

    3: We're making the Arcane Spell Failure reductions work for Warforged. This was a no-brainer, and makes those armor proficiency enhancements do something for warforged.

    4: We're buffing the core capstone, Eldritch Blade, by adding an additional, more noticable effect to it. While active, in addition to +10% attack damage and +25 Spell Power, it'll also add 3d4 Force damage to your attacks.


    The above changes are being made to address the top issues that everyone’s pointed out. They’ll release in Update 20. Even if your particular feedback adjustment doesn't make it into Update 20, we’ll continue to monitor the Eldritch Knight to identify possible future adjustments. So, please continue to give us your thoughts!
    Any comments on Eldritch Knight taking most of the identity away from Bard Warchanters?

    Bards have a major flaw in their design philosophy: Every enhancement is 2-Steps-Forward-One-Step-Back. Everything either has a major drawback or an extremely marginalizing limitation.
    When all other classes get enhancements that are pure upside (limited only by their opportunity cost), it causes Bards to quickly fall behind.

    EKs getting the same abilities as T5 Warchanter at Tiers 2 and 4, with out the drawbacks, is so demoralizing to the poor class that give morale bonuses to everything, repeatedly.

    For example, Inspire Recklessness gives {2/4/6}% Doublestrike and -10% Fortification. What if instead of paying for upside and living with the static drawback, further ranks decrease the drawback? 6% Flurry (Double strike and double shot) and -{10/5/0}% Fortification?

    It fits with the Jack-of-all-trades theme of bards. Yea, you can do that, but to do it well will cost you. Bards have so many limitations: no class/bonus feats, the same number of item slots to cover a wider spectrum of abilities, lower MCL, 3/4 BAB, Armor restrictions, ASF, d6 hitdie, limited weapon proficiency, and on and on and on... Do their enhancements need to further limit them?
    Last edited by Systern; 10-21-2013 at 01:39 PM.

  19. #219
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hey everyone!
    Over the weekend, we've had a chance to read through all of your feedback on the Eldritch Knight.
    Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    First, we've seen a lot of negative responses about the "Improved Mage Armor" and "Improved Shield" spell-like ability enhancements.
    There's a misconception that these enhancements will do nothing, because many Eldritch Knights will have an equipped shield or armor.

    We'd like to make it clear that the purpose of these enhancements is not to just give you Mage Armor or Shield as a spell-like ability.
    They empower those spells by giving you an additional, stacking buff while those spells are active.
    Improved Mage Armor gives up to a +10% bonus to your total armor class, while Improved Shield gives +10 Physical Resistance Rating. This works regardless of if you have an equipped armor or shield.
    That's cool and all but it kind of kills the option of an unarmored EK...oh and do you have to cast the SLAs to get the secondary or are they passive IOW can I cast Epic Mage Armor and get the improved mage armor effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    1: We agree that Eldritch Shield is too weak. We'll be tripling the Temporary Hit Points you gain from this enhancement. This will make it much more effective at mitigating incoming damage.
    Cool change, still don't see how an arcane shield requires a physical shield to be equipped.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    2: Eldritch Strike's cooldown is too long. We're reducing it from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. We feel this will help it balance better in context with other arcane trees' SLA's.
    This is also an indirect buff to the capstone, Eldritch Blade, which activates every ten times you use Eldritch Strike.

    3: We're making the Arcane Spell Failure reductions work for Warforged. This was a no-brainer, and makes those armor proficiency enhancements do something for warforged.

    4: We're buffing the core capstone, Eldritch Blade, by adding an additional, more noticable effect to it. While active, in addition to +10% attack damage and +25 Spell Power, it'll also add 3d4 Force damage to your attacks.
    This is all sort of interconnected...and all cool


    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The above changes are being made to address the top issues that everyone’s pointed out. They’ll release in Update 20. Even if your particular feedback adjustment doesn't make it into Update 20, we’ll continue to monitor the Eldritch Knight to identify possible future adjustments. So, please continue to give us your thoughts!
    Overall right now the EK Tree is better as a splash to a melee than an actual arcane caster ...I really do think the tree in general should be buffed up but have the majority of it require an orb to be equipped so it can't so easily be splashed...Anyways continued thoughts commencing...

    So you made a few nice minor adjustments but in general you missed a bunch of the big issues

    1. Lack of cha or int to atk/dmg makes this tree pretty much pointless...theres little point to a hybrid melee caster if you cant cast your just a mediocre melee.


    2. The spellsword ability takes up a whopping 4 core abilities it needs to be merged into a single enhancement


    3. The near requirement to use a shield, orbs should be an alternative to anything that says "requires a shield" it suits EK much better anyways. "Shield Striking" would deal force damage instead of doing a shield bash when an orb is equipped


    4. Arcane Melee are EXTREMELY vulnerable to enemies with anti-magic auras or dispel...it can easily cripple them, no other prestige has a weakness like this...EKs need a way to block this.

    Something like Improved Battle Mage: Buffs are no longer dispelable or affected by anti-magic effects. (ie. Beholders)


    5. Single Class Wizards and Sorcs have no way to obtain GTHF (bastard swords and D-axes being able to use this line) putting them even further behind "true" melees there needs to be a way to get this feat through EK

    Also you could add an Eldritch Combatant Feat Line that requires 14/16/18 Base Cha or Int to take the feats

    EC: When fighting with an orb in your off-hand, you gain 1 temporary spell point and +1 universal spellpower on-hit, 3 temporary SP and USP on crit, and 5 temporary SP and USP on vorpal for X seconds <insert standard language for disappearing stacks here>.
    IEC: Any 1-handed weapon gains +1 to Crit range and your touch/ranged touch spells no longer have a level cap.
    GEC: Orbs Boni to Saves and Energy Resist no longer requires you to be actively blocking (blocking doubles the effect instead)


    6. Lack of Heavy Armor Proficiency add this to the capstone so people aren't forced to multi-class to pick it up


    7. Remove the critical accuracy line (its useless)


    8. Super short buffs are not conducive to the battlestyle of a Arcane melee who has to pay attention to way too many things to be casting a handful of buffs every minute or so and the cooldown increases of tensers and combat expertise don't help a great tier 5 ability (one that would help make it actually worth locking out Savant, AM or PM tier 5s) would be to make Extend better

    Something like - Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)


    9. No threat increase (Eks, in heavy armor and mass amounts of defensive bonuses and even a bonus to Intim but no way to increase aggro)

    My suggestion is to rename "Still spell" (since that make no sense anyways) and add threat increase to it which affects both your magic and melee threat gen

    Eldritch Spectacle - +25/50/75% Magic/Melee Threat Generation & -5/10/15% ASF (alternative you could have it grant Twilight/Twilight/Greater Twilight on all armors and shields...its more flavorful imo)


    10. The EK prestige screams some sort of force guard ability

    ie. Force Feedback (5/10/15% chance to do 1d4/1d8/1d12 Force damage on-hit w/ knockdown effect


    11. +6 elemental resistance on an arcane is still pointless...maybe replace this with an effect similar to the "Shield deflection" feat which of course requires a shield OR Orb equipped in the off-hand.


    Here's all my suggestions (and a few other minor changes) put together in tree form...feel free to have a look

    Anyways here's the updated (again) mockup

    Core 1 Eldritch Strike (gets better with each core) +0.5 USP and +1 Force Power per pt spent in tree
    Core 3 Cha or Int Atk/DMG (multi-selector to try avoiding bugs of only one working)
    Core 6 Spellsword(choosing element works like Elemental Weapons or Resist Energy)
    Core 12 Tensers Toggle
    Core 18 Heavy Armor Prof OR Master Mage Armor/Shield (basically makes the already improved spells even better...Heavy Armor would still be superior but it would close the gap a bit so unarmored isn't completely useless)
    Core 20 +25 Force SP,+1 Crit Multiplier w/1-h Weapons and +2 Int or Cha

    Tier 1

    - Improved Mage Armor OR Light/Medium Armor Prof and Armor you equip gains the Greater Twilight Property
    - Item Defense: 25%/50%/75% to negate item wear
    - Toughness: 5/10/15 HP
    - Battlemage: +1/2/3 Concen/Intim/Balance
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage



    Tier 2

    - Shield Mastery or Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one - see below for EC-Line effects)
    - Adept Fighter: Proficiency and 2/4/6% Doublestrike with all 1-h weapons
    - Wand and Scroll Mastery +25/50/75% & +1/2/3 DC
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage
    - Improved Shield OR General Shield Proficiency and Shields gain Greater Twilight Property

    Tier 3

    + 1 Any Stat
    - Improved Battle Mage: Buffs are no longer dispelable or affected by anti-magic effects. (ie. Beholders)
    - Eldritch Barrier (SLA similar to Arty's Radiant Force Shield...cooldown 12min/6min/3min seconds duration 30 seconds + 6 seconds per level...Metas: Quicken & Extend)
    - Arcane Senses: +2/4/6 Reflex, Spot and Dodge%
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage

    Tier 4

    - Improved Shield Mastery or Improved Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one - Req Char Lvl 6)
    - + 1 Any Stats
    - Force Feedback (5/10/15% chance to do 1d4/1d8/1d12 Force damage on-hit w/ knockdown effect
    - Haste Boost [Req: Arcane Senses]
    - Efficient Metamagic: Extend


    Tier 5

    - Improved Shield Bash or Greater Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
    - Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)
    - Improved Tenser's Toggle (reduces penalties and increases benefits)
    - Eldritch Tempest (Req: Force Feedback)
    - Eldritch Spectacle - +25/50/75% Magic Threat Generation & -5/10/15% ASF
    Note: Magic includes your EK SLAs ie. Eldritch Tempest and Spellsword

    The Tree (on its side) would look something like this.

    1. Improved Mage Armor,Improved Shield,Eldritch Barrier,Force Feedback,Eldritch Tempest
    2. Force Crit,Force Crit ,Force Crit, Efficient Meta: Extend, Improved Tensers
    3. Toughness, Combat Style,+1 Any stat,Improved Combat Style,Greater Combat Style
    4. Wand & Scroll Mastery, Battle Mage,Improved BM, +1 Any Stat, Master Battle Mage
    5. Item Defense, Adept Fighter, Arcane Senses, Haste Boost, Eldritch Spectacle

    Eldritch Combatant Effects:

    EC: When fighting with an orb in your off-hand, you gain 1 temporary spell point and +1 universal spellpower on-hit, 3 temporary SP and USP on crit, and 5 temporary SP and USP on vorpal for X seconds <insert standard language for disappearing stacks here>.
    IEC: Any 1-handed weapon gains +1 to Crit range and your touch/ranged touch spells no longer have a level cap.
    GEC: Orbs Boni to Saves and Energy Resist no longer requires you to be actively blocking (blocking doubles the effect instead)





    That all said I read somewhere that programming an MMO is similar to playing Jenga. Take out a single problem, and you risk create a whole mess of new ones. Add some more content, and the balance shifts wildly potentially causing the whole thing to come crashing down. So good luck
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-21-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  20. #220
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    lots of good stuff
    I do mean it, that what you gave us is some good stuff but you still might as well not put this on live until you give it CHA/INT to hit and damage. That was the biggest complaint/request/suggestion and the team completely ignored it. Could you at least let us know why this isn't being considered?
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
    Beware My Gifts!!!

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