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  1. #141
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    If everyone is cheating, it (general "it" not specific) is still every bit a contest of skill and/or wit... and a lot of fun. I know this from experience.
    A lot of fun once. No one will play Monopoly more than once if there are no rules. Just like every time one uses god-mode cheat in a video game, you got bored of it within a week.

    Calvinball aside, no rules, no challenge, nothing to strive for, means no game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  2. #142
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Every MMO punishes people for duping. It breaks the economy, and costs the company money and players. The positive effect of "public" punishments is that less people will exploit the NEXT bug.
    I disagree public punishment just creates the messed up drama that's taking place on these forums especially with the "vast and mysterious" way they comment that they're going to punish people and do things with "extreme prejudice". Set a policy and then quietly enforce that policy. The half ______ way that Turbine has handled every exploit in this game helps no one, and making a big deal out of each banning even if they had a consistent policy would help no one.

  3. #143
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2pleasegimmie View Post
    And what sensible person believes that it's appropriate or desirable to have businesses dishing out "punishments", rather than focussing on the product?

    Aside from that, why do you think "punishment" will have any positive effect?
    In this case, dishing out punishments IS focussing on the product. They're attempting to protect it. They obviously believe punishing exploiters this time will deter them next time. Why else would tolero make the extreme prejudice comment?

    Again, its not about whether this exploit was sooo destructive. Exploiting has to be discouraged in general because exploits have the potential to be game-breaking

  4. #144
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Because I don't really care about *winning* and I am just playing for/want to have fun?

    You didn't answer my questions at all.

    How is someone who cheats and is not caught diminished?
    It's so sad I have to explain this. It's called character. Every time you cheat (and do NOT own up to it, laughing it off), you lose a bit of integrity and character.

    Again, understand why you own up to it, and forfeit the game. This is important. Imagine if you cheated, got caught by a friend, and declared indignantly that you didn't cheat! And then he said "Dude, I saw you!", and then you said "Well, this game is stupid, and I shouldn't be punished for cheating, and it's no big deal, so why do you care anyway?" Imagine how that would go over with your friends. How many times could you get away with that attitude?

    That's what people are doing here. If they would own up to it, and laugh it off, and forfeit (i.e. lose all their stuff and accept the bannings with grace) then maybe I wouldn't consider them worthless cheaters.

    The fact that you own up to it and forfeit the game means you KNOW it's wrong. The people here are saying "It isn't wrong to cheat - Some are even saying "Everyone does it, evne lawyers, insurance salesmen, etc. What's the big deal?"

    You are NOT saying that... You own up to it when you cheat. The people in these threads are not owning up to it. They don't want to forfeit the game. They still want to win after being caught cheating.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 10-14-2013 at 08:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  5. #145
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Also when someone blatantly cheats at Monopoly (takes $10,000 from the bank, and a few properties he/she needs), that gaming session is ruined... But you can always start over with a new game. Cheating in a MMO is more persistent. We can't just start over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  6. #146
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I disagree public punishment just creates the messed up drama that's taking place on these forums especially with the "vast and mysterious" way they comment that they're going to punish people and do things with "extreme prejudice". Set a policy and then quietly enforce that policy. The half ______ way that Turbine has handled every exploit in this game helps no one, and making a big deal out of each banning even if they had a consistent policy would help no one.
    Turbine needs to be consistent with their exploit policy. That I agree with... But public punishments (you don't have to give out names, just publicly announce the consequences) do deter others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  7. #147
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Also when someone blatantly cheats at Monopoly (takes $10,000 from the bank, and a few properties he/she needs), that gaming session is ruined... But you can always start over with a new game. Cheating in a MMO is more persistent. We can't just start over.
    In a game that didn't have a dysfunctional economy already from being able to pay real money for currency you'd have a point. But with how you can buy as this really doesn't make a difference, the economy already was and always will be ruined / a joke as long as astral shards exist.

  8. #148
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Turbine needs to be consistent with their exploit policy. That I agree with... But public punishments (you don't have to give out names, just publicly announce the consequences) do deter others.
    I think we have a different definition of what public would be in this case then. With a consistent policy I'd say the most I'd want to see get mentioned on a forum from a company would be.

    "There was an exploit in the game recently that we corrected, violators have been taken care of as outlined in our tos."

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Every MMO punishes people for duping. It breaks the economy, and costs the company money and players. The positive effect of "public" punishments is that less people will exploit the NEXT bug.
    That sounds like the exact same mindset that has turned the United States into the largest prision industrial complex and police state on the planet - yet which still has one of the highest crime rates.

    And of course you have citable proof for your conclusions, right?

    However, my point is also that in this instance, simply fixing the bug and removing the duped items as stated solves the "bad" issues you raise, so all you are left with is some sort of foolish need to inflict what you think is harm on someone for violating your values. From a business perspective, any punishment that excludes people from the game is simply, and obviously, self-defeating.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    public punishments (you don't have to give out names, just publicly announce the consequences) do deter others.
    You make a lot of claims, but provide no proof to back them up.

    I get the impression that you don't actually have any background in psychology or criminology, or you'd be more careful about what you say.

  11. #151
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    A lot of fun once. No one will play Monopoly more than once if there are no rules. Just like every time one uses god-mode cheat in a video game, you got bored of it within a week.
    It entirely depends on the game. Also you are miss-understanding the concept of cheating. If there are no rules, it isn't cheating. Cheating only applies if there are rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Calvinball aside, no rules, no challenge, nothing to strive for, means no game.
    No rules means you can't cheat. A game that everyone is cheating in has rules. The challenge is in overcoming the other players. Victory is still strived for. There is still a game.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  12. #152
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Turbine needs to be consistent with their exploit policy. That I agree with... But public punishments (you don't have to give out names, just publicly announce the consequences) do deter others.
    I would also like to see the consequences announced, but by explicitly stating the punishment it makes easier for people to assess the risk-reward of exploiting. Since I don't believe Turbine will be heavy-handed in their punishments, they will never disclose what was done. Also, what may be a harsh punishment for some can also be a slap on the wrist for others.

  13. #153
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2pleasegimmie View Post
    You make a lot of claims, but provide no proof to back them up.

    I get the impression that you don't actually have any background in psychology or criminology, or you'd be more careful about what you say.
    lol you are funny. It is ironic that you pick the one thing he says that I agree with to say this about.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  14. #154
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    What a lovely thread. Closed.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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