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  1. #81
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    Default I like it but perhaps something to consider.

    First off, thank you devs for continuing to expand the game to make it interesting. I'm sure modifying that much of a code-base is a pain. I'm sure you have probably considered just starting the DDO2 project by now considering how large it has become.

    With regard to the new EK PrE, I played around with multiple builds on Lammania and ran into the same problem no matter what the build. At level 15 with 18 con base I still had just under 400 hp even when I splashed some fighter levels in there (the most successful build being the PDK 9/6 Sorceror/Fighter build). With spell progression being what it is these days on NPC's, you can still get one-shotted with over 500 hp at that level range. I realize that wiz/sorc have quite a bit of mitigation options such as displacement but I do not think it would be unfair to add a core ability or modify one of the core abilities to grant something similar to the druid nature's warrior PrE where you get one hp/point spent in the tree. I know Stalwart Defender and (drawing a blank on the new pally version) add hp but this is for the people brave enough to attempt the capstone which would be a nearly guaranteed death in late Heroic content and a definite death in Epic content.

    On average I am investing 42 AP and that is mostly spent on reducing ASF so that I can no fail with a heavy shield and heavy armor. So far the most successful build has been a PDK self-buffing turtle build with Stalwart Defender. Tenser's plus stalwart stance puts me at an above average AC around 66 with a boost up to 75 using just the PDK starter gear which isn't bad at all considering this is a non-tanking sword and board build. Hold shield-block in an aoe spell such as acid fog and rotate cleave, great cleave, Eldritch Strike and Eldritch Tempest. Magic missile and chain missile for any mobs remaining at a distance. I chose not to splash an evasion class for two reasons, Heavy Armor grants higher AC and PRR and the base saves for wizard/sorc are horrible which would result in few spells actually evaded.

    Lastly, perhaps add a feat to the game that trades spell points for extra hit points that could be taken at level one. Maybe make applicable characters choose either Magical Training OR "Arcane Fight Club" (or whatever you want to call it) which changes your hit point progression to that of say a cleric (d8 instead of d4) at the cost of having to pot or find a rest shrine once you run out of SP. This would promote potion sales in the auction house and in your DDO store since EK runs out of SP fairly fast when you have to splash classes. I can easily imagine running out of SP in a raid fight such as Harry. The caption for it could be this:

    Arcane Fight Club: While your peers were busy studying and learning to draw energy from the world around them, you were brawling in one of the sub-level arenas to earn money to pay your tuition.

    One last tweak that I just thought of. You have designed the PrE for wearing armor and yet include enhancements designed not to wear them or that will be quickly obsolete. Perhaps change them to be simpler such as bonus enhancement to equipped armor and equipped shield as well as granting the secondary bonuses that are in place? Granting the additional enhancement bonus to your shield would further improve the T5 enhancement (would be better if it was calculated based on shield bonus and not enhancement bonus) with more temporary hp solving the above issue with hp. EK's would then have to manually evade attacks until they built up three stacks of temporary hp again making a new play style where they are more stick-and-move point-blank-burst dps.
    Last edited by chaoscummings; 11-12-2013 at 09:11 AM.

  2. #82
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    After further review, the only thing worthwhile spending AP on in this enhancement tree is the first core enhancement aoe attack. Rest is a waste of points.
    Zaphear(Completionist), Lugziurious, Lugzmeat Shield, Lugzii, Lugziii, Lugzsing Measong - De Profundis

  3. #83
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphear View Post
    After further review, the only thing worthwhile spending AP on in this enhancement tree is the first core enhancement aoe attack. Rest is a waste of points.
    I am building a 16/2/2 (Sorc/Pal/Fi) using EK on a Bladeforged. I personally am having a tonne of fun with it and have been soloing/duoing up to the Vale with absolutely no problems. I still have to twink some gear so I have more spell power but it is running fine so far.

    I have run many other builds up through the game and have a fair idea how this will play when I get to epics. He will be great in eNorm, good in eH and would be a hastebot in EE (ie. waste of a slot so I won't bother in EE with him) without ubergearing him which I likely won't get around to (too many alts ahead of him).

    I give the PrE a thumbs up - not the best overall but good enough to play for fun and flavor.
    gotta to kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight - B. Cockburn
    Guild Leader - Order of the Silver Dragons
    Mains Darlao Completionist Toogor Wiz28 TR5 Also Listarn Shadar Kai Rogue 20/7 - WhiskyTango CL28 TR4 - Toongor Bd28 TR2 - Sooey Dwarf ConBarb28 Pusshy -WizMo 18/ 2/8+9 More

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    I am building a 16/2/2 (Sorc/Pal/Fi) using EK on a Bladeforged. I personally am having a tonne of fun with it and have been soloing/duoing up to the Vale with absolutely no problems. I still have to twink some gear so I have more spell power but it is running fine so far.

    I have run many other builds up through the game and have a fair idea how this will play when I get to epics. He will be great in eNorm, good in eH and would be a hastebot in EE (ie. waste of a slot so I won't bother in EE with him) without ubergearing him which I likely won't get around to (too many alts ahead of him).

    I give the PrE a thumbs up - not the best overall but good enough to play for fun and flavor.
    You'd be just as effective without the tree. Arcane spell failure is easy to reduce.. This tree gives you a handful of doublestrike and 1 viable aoe attack, that's about it.. The Wand/Scroll mastery doesn't even work. The aoe elemental weapons are a cool idea, but lack viability as the damage is extremely subpar even with huge spell power boosts. This tree gives you nothing if you splash a level of fighter/paladin, it's made for pure 20 casters and craps on the rest.
    Zaphear(Completionist), Lugziurious, Lugzmeat Shield, Lugzii, Lugziii, Lugzsing Measong - De Profundis

  5. #85
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Got him to epics yesterday - ran a few of the starters (Snitch, Partycrashers - Eveningstar chain) to see how he did - ran all on EH with a hireling backup for oh crud moments and my panther. Both hire and cat died in the ambush at Inkrakos (optional demon fight in Partycrashers).....I cleaned up ambush and took down Inkrakos with no real problem at all. Inkrakos did take a bit longer than my monkcher but not every character can be a Monkcher.

    I am playing him like a fighter who can self buff and self heal. The eldritch enhancements help in a variety of ways that does improve his melee capability noticeably. Eldritch strike is a nice damage add - I don't have this guy geared so have nominal spell power (maybe 70+maximize) on and the force damage hits for about 100 so I could probably get that up to the 150s fairly easily the spellsword damage adds another bunch. Rolling this with cleave and great cleave and you don't really need AOE spells. Eldritch Tempest is nice damage as well plus the knockdown (though I would like it to be 3secs as many mobs pop up immediately after falling). I have 6% doublestrike from the enhancements and more coming from gear so that is adding up as well. The improved Sheild and Mage Armor are nice incremental boosts (AC and PRR).


    My fighting style is to cast Ice storm and acid fog then start meleeing with Eldritch strike, cleave, great cleave, Eldritch tempest on cycle is working really well to clean up melee types - I use various types of magic missles as I lead into fights (grabs aggro really well) and rotate them when the cooldowns of the Eldritch attacks are in place (sorc and quicken makes this not affect melee too much). Perma Tensors is actually very nice as you don't lose dps from swapping to scroll casting, swapping back to item etc....at only Level 20 I walk around with 42 Str on a Sorc. I am running with about 42 PRR, AC 60+ and permanent displacement. I could switch up to be more sword and board if I wanted more AC/PRR but on EH that is more than sufficient.

    Oh and having the Arcane Barrier is a nice add - it reminds you that you need to heal yourself and it cuts down incoming damage.....

    Epic Elite - yeah he probably sucks Winnebago's but I could probably make him functional there if I maxed out some EDs and got the right gear.

    Although you say it is easy to get ASF down - with heavy armor (addy plating is what I am using for PRR) I needed a tonne of it and had no gear that helped in that respect so I needed to nearly max out the line just to get that - between EK and Bladeforged I didn't have alot of AP left but I don't feel like I am missing anything.

    My only conundrum now is that I started with a character that had capped LD before I TR'd so I started in Shiradi on my way to Fury.....my conundrum is I may find Shiradi too nice such that I will end up back in Shiradi after I have tried Fury and LD.

    One other thought I had - this is an excellent ED farming build - it will work well in almost all EDs (maybe weak in Fatesinger and EA but still would be pretty good).
    gotta to kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight - B. Cockburn
    Guild Leader - Order of the Silver Dragons
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  6. #86
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphear View Post
    You'd be just as effective without the tree. Arcane spell failure is easy to reduce.. This tree gives you a handful of doublestrike and 1 viable aoe attack, that's about it.. The Wand/Scroll mastery doesn't even work. The aoe elemental weapons are a cool idea, but lack viability as the damage is extremely subpar even with huge spell power boosts. This tree gives you nothing if you splash a level of fighter/paladin, it's made for pure 20 casters and craps on the rest.
    Oh and on Wand and Scroll - didn't even take it - this tree screams WF self-healing melee/arcane - if you try to make it work on a fleshy caster you will run into the need for this but why would you do that to yourself

    Splashing is critical to making this tree work - either as a dip or as the core - as I have done as the core of the build I have Fighter and Pally for feats, and with pally for much better saves.

    For a dip I could see a shallow dip (2 levels) just to get the Eldritch strike, toughness and mage armor/shield boosts or a deeper splash (say 6-8 levels) so you get level 3 spells (haste, displacement) and access to the full tree (if desired).
    gotta to kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight - B. Cockburn
    Guild Leader - Order of the Silver Dragons
    Mains Darlao Completionist Toogor Wiz28 TR5 Also Listarn Shadar Kai Rogue 20/7 - WhiskyTango CL28 TR4 - Toongor Bd28 TR2 - Sooey Dwarf ConBarb28 Pusshy -WizMo 18/ 2/8+9 More

  7. #87
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    I do not understand why our DEVs insist on repeatedly putting up with creating severely underpowered content. I mean, what's the point of pre-nerfing your content? Sure one might take into account that players can be smart and create combinations that are outright silly, but creating content that is such mechanically insignificant is just a waste of their own time!

    Think of it this way, there are 4 categories of being conservative in the power level of new content:

    1: Minimal balancing effort, maximum conservativeness: Useless and totally irrelevant product (aside from looking pretty).
    2: Some thought was put into it; can afford to be slightly less conservative: Not totally useless, but still mostly irrelevant product, due to being significantly underpowered.
    3: Well thought out, conservativeness not required: Pretty good product, likely popular.
    4: Some thought was put into it; not conservative enough: Someone comes out with a way to abuse the system. Extra work is then required to tone it down.


    1 is obviously a waste of time. Nobody benefits.
    2 is still largely a waste of time. EK sits here. People are interested because they like the concept. Execution is lacking.
    3 is what EVERYONE wants.. and it likely isn't even the most work to accomplish.
    4 well.. okay you screwed up. And probably will end up putting in more total work in than scenario 3.

    So why not just do it right the first time, half-assing just makes more work! Creating worthless content in DDO is just so .... worthless. sigh.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinkly View Post
    i do not understand why our devs insist on repeatedly putting up with creating severely underpowered content. I mean, what's the point of pre-nerfing your content? Sure one might take into account that players can be smart and create combinations that are outright silly, but creating content that is such mechanically insignificant is just a waste of their own time!

    Think of it this way, there are 4 categories of being conservative in the power level of new content:

    1: Minimal balancing effort, maximum conservativeness: Useless and totally irrelevant product (aside from looking pretty).
    2: Some thought was put into it; can afford to be slightly less conservative: Not totally useless, but still mostly irrelevant product, due to being significantly underpowered.
    3: Well thought out, conservativeness not required: Pretty good product, likely popular.
    4: Some thought was put into it; not conservative enough: Someone comes out with a way to abuse the system. Extra work is then required to tone it down.


    1 is obviously a waste of time. Nobody benefits.
    2 is still largely a waste of time. Ek sits here. People are interested because they like the concept. Execution is lacking.
    3 is what everyone wants.. And it likely isn't even the most work to accomplish.
    4 well.. Okay you screwed up. and probably will end up putting in more total work in than scenario 3.

    so why not just do it right the first time, half-assing just makes more work! Creating worthless content in ddo is just so .... Worthless. Sigh.

    stop trolling!

  9. #89
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    What alot of the people who are saying "EK is GREAT!!!" don't realize is that EK literally has almost nothing with their success....its that Arcane Gish type build have always been pretty awesome just the general public didn't know that until EK brought it to light and people like Wizza and AtomicMew still can't accept that its a very fun and very effective build.

    Personally I've run through various incarnations of a gish type build since I started playing just before the launch of stormreach unlimited. My most recent version being a light armor large shield wielding Dwarf with a d-axe and heavy focus on Palemaster and cold spells who actually recently shed his light armor in favor of the epic mage armor feat. My next plans are one of 3 possibilities an Elven TWF PM12/Tempest6/Rogue2, a PDK Sorc16-18/Pally2/Rogue0-2 or some weird Henshin Monk/Fire Savant mix I'm working on just for fun (I call it Fire Flower Mario...I wish there was a force savant though)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #90
    Community Member Draiden's Avatar
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    12 Wiz // 6 Monk // 2 Fighter

    Undead EK Monk vs Devil's Assault EE (Solo)

    Eldritch Knight is pretty great. Take more than just Eldritch Strike. PRR and AC is attainable. The video shows a lot of misses from mobs even in EE content. Fyi, this build has been in the works since the Vale came out forever ago, starting with 12 Wizard // 6 Ranger // 2 Fighter (2WF Khopesh build). The evolution from then to now has been a great path, and the EK enhancements have really brought the concept to it's full potential.
    Proud Leader of Redemption

  11. #91
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draiden View Post
    12 Wiz // 6 Monk // 2 Fighter

    Undead EK Monk vs Devil's Assault EE (Solo)

    Eldritch Knight is pretty great. Take more than just Eldritch Strike. PRR and AC is attainable. The video shows a lot of misses from mobs even in EE content. Fyi, this build has been in the works since the Vale came out forever ago, starting with 12 Wizard // 6 Ranger // 2 Fighter (2WF Khopesh build). The evolution from then to now has been a great path, and the EK enhancements have really brought the concept to it's full potential.
    I doubt EK brings much more to the build than Palemaster and Monk does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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