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  1. #41
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    - Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)
    You have got to be joking about this one. Seriously, when would you ever need a buff, that disappears between quests and at shrines, to last that long?

    Also the armor stuff should not be lower in the tree than warchanters get it, so I would have to vote no to t1 medium armor.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    You have got to be joking about this one. Seriously, when would you ever need a buff, that disappears between quests and at shrines, to last that long?

    Also the armor stuff should not be lower in the tree than warchanters get it, so I would have to vote no to t1 medium armor.
    They were probably thinking of it for tensors, rage, haste, and displacement.

  3. #43
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Power attack, cleave, great cleave done. Add in some quicken, maximize, empower, and you still have a feat left in your heroic levels.
    By passing on the THF, TWF, or S&B feat you are giving up about an ~80% damage boost its foolish to thing you can have passable melee with out one of those 3 lines. The cleaves are the least important melee feat there greatest value is related to Overwhelming Crit. Some peoples play style may make cleaves seam more desirable but they are the guys who never auto attack and they are still loosing too much damage not taking the THF or S&B lines.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Here's what I'm thinking

    *snip*
    I vote no on handing out entire feat chains as enhancements, I like your idea of (assuming this is codable) having Wiz/Sorc levels count as Ftr (BAB included) for prereqs, maybe even have that as the 2nd Core?

    I also really like the idea of Eldritch Combatant, Sword n' Orb seems a very fluffy style for an EK and I'd like to see it be playable.

  5. #45
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    You have got to be joking about this one. Seriously, when would you ever need a buff, that disappears between quests and at shrines, to last that long?

    Also the armor stuff should not be lower in the tree than warchanters get it, so I would have to vote no to t1 medium armor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    They were probably thinking of it for tensors, rage, haste, and displacement.
    What Charononus said...its also very fitting imo. EKs spend their entire lives in melee combat and rely heavily on buffs including alot of short term ones so its would be logical to assume they'd get better at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by stilesm1 View Post
    I vote no on handing out entire feat chains as enhancements, I like your idea of (assuming this is codable) having Wiz/Sorc levels count as Ftr (BAB included) for prereqs, maybe even have that as the 2nd Core?
    The main reasoning for that is that Sorcs get no bonus feats its impossible for them to have the right feats to be both an effective spellcaster and an effective melee so giving them their combat line for free would really help even the odds.

    Also I'm 99% sure the "Be treated as an at-level fighter in terms of feat pre-reqs" can't work due to the fact that enhancements are so easy to reset so what would happen to the fighter feats you took when your no longer an EK...even for just the few minutes whilst rechoosing your EK enhancements...the combat lines are far more likely to work coding-wise and require Tier 5 for the best one, also I'm fine with limiting the weapon set that those can apply to. "Sword-Like" weapons fit best Longsword, B-Sword, Short Sword, Scimitar for TWF, S&B and EC than Falchion and Greatsword for THF.

    Quote Originally Posted by stilesm1 View Post
    I also really like the idea of Eldritch Combatant, Sword n' Orb seems a very fluffy style for an EK and I'd like to see it be playable.
    Yeah I really hope we can get something cool out of that its very thematic and gives Wizard Orbs an actual use.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-13-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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  6. #46
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    They were probably thinking of it for tensors, rage, haste, and displacement.
    I had forgotten about those ones, makes more sense now.
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  7. #47
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    I had forgotten about those ones, makes more sense now.
    Yeah I could have mentioned those specifically but its just cleaner to say "Double the effectiveness of extend"

    Anyways I made some changes to my tree based on feedback (see devs this is how you do it...show your idea, get feedback, change based on feedback)

    Note: Anything that previously stated ZERO as a possible damage outcome now states 1.

    Core 1 Eldritch Strike (gets better with each core) +0.5 USP and +1 Force Power per pt spent in tree
    Core 3 Cha or Int Atk/DMG (multi-selector to try avoiding bugs of only one working)
    Core 6 Spellsword(choosing element works like Elemental Weapons or Resist Energy)
    Core 12 Tensers Toggle
    Core 18 Heavy Armor Prof & Tower Shield Prof & No ASF accrued from them OR Master Mage Armor/Shield (basically makes the already improved spells even better to make it on par with equivalent armor and shields)
    Core 20 +25 Force SP,+1 Crit Multiplier w/Sword-like Weapons and +2 Int or Cha

    Note: Core 3 & 6 are fairly interchangeable for their placement but I think the above order is optimal

    Tier 1

    - Improved Mage Armor OR Light/Medium Armor Prof and No ASF when wearing those armors
    - Item Defense: 25%/50%/75% to negate item wear
    - Toughness: 5/10/15 HP
    - Battlemage: +1/2/3 Concen/Intim/Balance
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage



    Tier 2

    - TWF, THF, Shield Mastery or Eldritch Combatant (bonus when using 1-handed weapon and wizard orb) multi-selector choose one
    - Martial Weapon Prof & 2/4/6% Doublestrike
    - Wand and Scroll Mastery +25/50/75% & +1/2/3 DC
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage
    - Improved Shield OR General Shield Proficiency and No ASF with any shield (except tower)

    Tier 3

    + 1 Any Stat
    - Improved Battle Mage (Feats treat you as if you were an equal level fighter and have full BAB for the purpose of pre-reqs)
    - Eldritch Barrier (SLA similar to Arty's Radiant Force Shield...cooldown 12min/6min/3min seconds duration 30 seconds + 6 seconds per level...Metas: Quicken & Extend)
    - Arcane Senses: +2/4/6 Reflex, Spot and Dodge%
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage

    Tier 4

    - ITWF, ITHF, Improved Shield Mastery or Improved Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
    - + 1 Any Stats
    - Force Feedback (5/10/15% chance to do 1d4/1d8/1d12 Force damage on-hit w/ knockdown effect
    - Haste Boost [Req: Arcane Senses]
    - Efficient Metamagic: Extend


    Tier 5

    - GTWF, GTHF, Improved Shield Bash or Greater Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
    - Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)
    - Improved Tenser's Toggle (reduces penalties and increases benefits)
    - Eldritch Tempest (Req: Force Feedback)
    - Eldritch Spectacle - +25/50/75% Magic Threat Generation & -5/10/15% ASF

    Note: Magic includes your EK SLAs ie. Eldritch Tempest and Spellsword

    The Tree (on its side) would look something like this.

    1. Improved Mage Armor,Improved Shield,Eldritch Barrier,Force Feedback,Eldritch Tempest
    2. Force Crit,Force Crit,Force Crit,Efficient Meta: Extend,Improved Tensers
    3. Toughness, Combat Style,+1 Any stat,Improved Combat Style,Greater Combat Style
    4. Wand & Scroll Mastery, Battle Mage,Improved BM, +1 Any Stat, Master Battle Mage
    5. Item Defense, Weapon Prof, Arcane Senses, Haste Boost, Eldritch Spectacle

    Not really sure what to do with the Eldritch Combatant but following other prestige classes would work.

    Maybe something like this

    EC: +X to enhancement bonus for the Wizard Orb and your 1-handed "Sword-like" weapon
    IEC: Any 1-handed "Sword-like" weapon gains +1 to Crit range and is treated as an implement
    PEC: Allow Spellpower to apply to your weapon effects when wielding a 1-h "Sword-like" weapon.

    X= 1/4 character level?
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-13-2013 at 01:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #48
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Yeah I could have mentioned those specifically but its just cleaner to say "Double the effectiveness of extend"

    Anyways I made some changes to my tree based on feedback (see devs this is how you do it...show your idea, get feedback, change based on feedback)

    Note: Anything that previously stated ZERO as a possible damage outcome now states 1.

    Core 1 Eldritch Strike (gets better with each core) +0.5 USP and +1 Force Power per pt spent in tree
    Core 3 Cha or Int Atk/DMG (multi-selector to try avoiding bugs of only one working)
    Core 6 Spellsword(choosing element works like Elemental Weapons or Resist Energy)
    Core 12 Tensers Toggle
    Core 18 Heavy Armor Prof & Tower Shield Prof & No ASF accrued from them OR Master Mage Armor/Shield (basically makes the already improved spells even better to make it on par with equivalent armor and shields)
    Core 20 +25 Force SP,+1 Crit Multiplier w/Sword-like Weapons and +2 Int or Cha

    Note: Core 3 & 6 are fairly interchangeable for their placement but I think the above order is optimal

    Tier 1

    - Improved Mage Armor OR Light/Medium Armor Prof and No ASF when wearing those armors
    - Item Defense: 25%/50%/75% to negate item wear
    - Toughness: 5/10/15 HP
    - Battlemage: +1/2/3 Concen/Intim/Balance
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage



    Tier 2

    - TWF, THF, Shield Mastery or Eldritch Combatant (bonus when using 1-handed weapon and wizard orb) multi-selector choose one
    - Martial Weapon Prof & 2/4/6% Doublestrike
    - Wand and Scroll Mastery +25/50/75% & +1/2/3 DC
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage
    - Improved Shield OR General Shield Proficiency and No ASF with any shield (except tower)

    Tier 3

    + 1 Any Stat
    - Improved Battle Mage (Feats treat you as if you were an equal level fighter and have full BAB for the purpose of pre-reqs)
    - Eldritch Barrier (SLA similar to Arty's Radiant Force Shield...cooldown 12min/6min/3min seconds duration 30 seconds + 6 seconds per level...Metas: Quicken & Extend)
    - Arcane Senses: +2/4/6 Reflex, Spot and Dodge%
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage

    Tier 4

    - ITWF, ITHF, Improved Shield Mastery or Improved Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
    - + 1 Any Stats
    - Force Feedback (5/10/15% chance to do 1d4/1d8/1d12 Force damage on-hit w/ knockdown effect
    - Haste Boost [Req: Arcane Senses]
    - Efficient Metamagic: Extend


    Tier 5

    - GTWF, GTHF, Improved Shield Bash or Greater Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
    - Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)
    - Improved Tenser's Toggle (reduces penalties and increases benefits)
    - Eldritch Tempest (Req: Force Feedback)
    - Eldritch Spectacle - +25/50/75% Magic Threat Generation & -5/10/15% ASF

    Note: Magic includes your EK SLAs ie. Eldritch Tempest and Spellsword

    The Tree (on its side) would look something like this.

    1. Improved Mage Armor,Improved Shield,Eldritch Barrier,Force Feedback,Eldritch Tempest
    2. Force Crit,Force Crit,Force Crit,Efficient Meta: Extend,Improved Tensers
    3. Toughness, Combat Style,+1 Any stat,Improved Combat Style,Greater Combat Style
    4. Wand & Scroll Mastery, Battle Mage,Improved BM, +1 Any Stat, Master Battle Mage
    5. Item Defense, Weapon Prof, Arcane Senses, Haste Boost, Eldritch Spectacle

    Not really sure what to do with the Eldritch Combatant but following other prestige classes would work.

    Maybe something like this

    EC: +X to enhancement bonus for the Wizard Orb and your 1-handed "Sword-like" weapon
    IEC: Any 1-handed "Sword-like" weapon gains +1 to Crit range and is treated as an implement
    PEC: Allow Spellpower to apply to your weapon effects when wielding a 1-h "Sword-like" weapon.

    X= 1/4 character level?
    I like this except
    "Improved Battle Mage (Feats treat you as if you were an equal level fighter and have full BAB for the purpose of pre-reqs)"

    That probably cannot happen at all.
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  9. #49
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    I like this except
    "Improved Battle Mage (Feats treat you as if you were an equal level fighter and have full BAB for the purpose of pre-reqs)"

    That probably cannot happen at all.
    Yeah I don't think the devs can do it either, probably annoying to code and would trip out when you reset your enhancements to tweak things...wishful thinking :P Any suggestions for improved battlemage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #50
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    @Failedlegend

    I like the new tree better. Here are some things I would do if I were the one making decisions about it:
    -I would still move the medium armor proficiency to a higher tier. I understand your reasons for it, but I feel it should not be granted at t1. I would probably go light armor t1, shields t3, medium armor t5. My reasoning is that would spread the armor upgrades across the heroic levels rather than getting medium at t1 and then waiting to level 18 to get to heavy.
    -I would have a shield sla in there. Shield is not only thematically appropiate, being a force effect, but also provides immunity to magic missiles, which is a very very nice feature.
    -Instead of giving blanket proficiency for all martial weapons, I would give a master's touch SLA. It accomplishes the same thing, but makes it more flavorful in my opinion.
    -I would, at t4ish give a dispel or greater dispel SLA. I feel that it would fit in the theme of the build and would prove useful in several situations.
    -I would give the second tier of the feat chains a minimum level of six. Martial classes can not get them before then, a hybrid of martial and melee should not be able to.
    -I would not give them tower shield proficiency nor would I allow them to ignore the ASF of tower shields. Martial classes that dearly need tower shield proficiency do not get it, and a hybrid class should not be surpassing a non-hybird class in the area it focuses in. (I am thinking of paladins here, and if they did give paladins a tower shield proficiency thing in their enhancements, my objection would mostly be gone, but not entirely, I just think free tower shields is going to far)

    That is all I can think of right now.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 10-13-2013 at 11:18 PM.
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  11. #51
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    @Failedlegend

    I like the new tree better. Here are some things I would do if I were the one making decisions about it:
    -I would still move the medium armor proficiency to a higher tier. I understand your reasons for it, but I feel it should not be granted at t1. I would probably go light armor t1, shields t3, medium armor t5. My reasoning is that would spread the armor upgrades across the heroic levels rather than getting medium at t1 and then waiting to level 18 to get to heavy.
    I'm cool with that buit the main issue is I already have 5 enhancements at each tier...So I'd have to re-arrange them...I'll look into to it

    Medium Armor is more useful at low levels due to the higher base AC but once you get to higher Dex values Light Armor is superior in every way so if anything I'd rather get medium first Light second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    -I would have a shield sla in there. Shield is not only thematically appropriate, being a force effect, but also provides immunity to magic missiles, which is a very very nice feature.
    Improved Shield and Improved Mage Armor ARE SLAs

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    -Instead of giving blanket proficiency for all martial weapons, I would give a master's touch SLA. It accomplishes the same thing, but makes it more flavorful in my opinion.
    A few issues for one its just another thing to drain SP and especially on Wizards that's a big issue due to the drain of spellsword etc. but that is minor BUT the big one is anything that clears buffs...beholder anti-magic cone, dispel,etc. so many situations you'd lose proficiency with your weapons...it just a recipe to be a PITA blanket martial proficiency is just easier

    Also EKs do actually have extensive martial training so they wouldn't need magic to know how to use their signature weapons...that said I'd be ok with losing proficiency with "ALL" martial weapons if we got proficiency with "Sword-like Weapons" instead that's FAR more thematic...Long Swords, Short Swords, Scimitars, Falchions, Greatswords and yes even B-Swords. It fits the prestige thematically and isn't quite so "Blanket proficiency"

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    -I would, at t4ish give a dispel or greater dispel SLA. I feel that it would fit in the theme of the build and would prove useful in several situations.
    In general EKs focus on self-buffs and short range offensive spells, CC honestly isn't really their thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    -I would give the second tier of the feat chains a minimum level of six. Martial classes can not get them before then, a hybrid of martial and melee should not be able to.
    I'd be ok with that

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    -I would not give them tower shield proficiency nor would I allow them to ignore the ASF of tower shields. Martial classes that dearly need tower shield proficiency do not get it, and a hybrid class should not be surpassing a non-hybird class in the area it focuses in. (I am thinking of paladins here, and if they did give paladins a tower shield proficiency thing in their enhancements, my objection would mostly be gone, but not entirely, I just think free tower shields is going to far)
    DONE!!!, No questions asked



    How's this (all but splitting light/medium armor is accomplished...feel free to suggest what you would remove in place of medium armor)

    Core 1 Eldritch Strike (gets better with each core) +0.5 USP and +1 Force Power per pt spent in tree
    Core 3 Cha or Int Atk/DMG (multi-selector to try avoiding bugs of only one working)
    Core 6 Spellsword(choosing element works like Elemental Weapons or Resist Energy)
    Core 12 Tensers Toggle
    Core 18 Heavy Armor Prof & No ASF accrued from them OR Master Mage Armor/Shield (basically makes the already improved spells even better to make it on par with equivalent armor and shields)
    Core 20 +25 Force SP,+1 Crit Multiplier w/Sword-like Weapons and +2 Int or Cha

    Note: Core 3 & 6 are fairly interchangeable for their placement but I think the above order is optimal

    Tier 1

    - Improved Mage Armor OR Light/Medium Armor Prof and No ASF when wearing those armors
    - Item Defense: 25%/50%/75% to negate item wear
    - Toughness: 5/10/15 HP
    - Battlemage: +1/2/3 Concen/Intim/Balance
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage



    Tier 2

    - TWF, THF, Shield Mastery or Eldritch Combatant (bonus when using 1-handed weapon and wizard orb) multi-selector choose one
    - Swordsman: Proficiency with all sword-like weapons and 2/4/6% DS (Multi-selector Longsword, Short Sword, Scimitar & B-Sword or Falchion and Greatsword)
    - Wand and Scroll Mastery +25/50/75% & +1/2/3 DC
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage
    - Improved Shield OR General Shield Proficiency and No ASF with any shield (except tower)

    Tier 3

    + 1 Any Stat
    - Improved Battle Mage (Feats treat you as if you were an equal level fighter and have full BAB for the purpose of pre-reqs)
    - Eldritch Barrier (SLA similar to Arty's Radiant Force Shield...cooldown 12min/6min/3min seconds duration 30 seconds + 6 seconds per level...Metas: Quicken & Extend)
    - Arcane Senses: +2/4/6 Reflex, Spot and Dodge%
    - Spell Critical: Force +2 % Chance to crit with force damage

    Tier 4

    - ITWF, ITHF, Improved Shield Mastery or Improved Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one - Req Char Lvl 6)
    - + 1 Any Stats
    - Force Feedback (5/10/15% chance to do 1d4/1d8/1d12 Force damage on-hit w/ knockdown effect
    - Haste Boost [Req: Arcane Senses]
    - Efficient Metamagic: Extend


    Tier 5

    - GTWF, GTHF, Improved Shield Bash or Greater Eldritch Combatant (multi-selector choose one)
    - Master Battlemage (Doubles the effectiveness of the Extend Metamagic...requires Extend)
    - Improved Tenser's Toggle (reduces penalties and increases benefits)
    - Eldritch Tempest (Req: Force Feedback)
    - Eldritch Spectacle - +25/50/75% Magic Threat Generation & -5/10/15% ASF

    Note: Magic includes your EK SLAs ie. Eldritch Tempest and Spellsword

    The Tree (on its side) would look something like this.

    1. Improved Mage Armor,Improved Shield,Eldritch Barrier,Force Feedback,Eldritch Tempest
    2. Force Crit,Force Crit,Force Crit,Efficient Meta: Extend,Improved Tensers
    3. Toughness, Combat Style,+1 Any stat,Improved Combat Style,Greater Combat Style
    4. Wand & Scroll Mastery, Battle Mage,Improved BM, +1 Any Stat, Master Battle Mage
    5. Item Defense, Swordsman, Arcane Senses, Haste Boost, Eldritch Spectacle

    Not really sure what to do with the Eldritch Combatant but following other prestige classes would work.

    Maybe something like this (changed due to some recent suggestions)

    EC: When fighting with an orb in your off-hand, you gain 1 temporary spell point and +1 universal spellpower on-hit, 3 temporary SP and USP on crit, and 5 temporary SP and USP on vorpal for X seconds <insert standard language for disappearing stacks here>.
    IEC: Orbs Boni to Saves and Energy Resist no longer requires you to be actively blocking (blocking doubles the effect instead)
    PEC: Any 1-handed weapon gains +1 to Crit range, ???
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-16-2013 at 10:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #52
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Might as well make swordsman into a multiple selector for the different fighter weapon groups.

    The dispel idea was not for CC. I am not sure how it would be used for that anyway. It was more for utility. Utility is one area they do use their spells. It kills spell wards. That being said, it is definetly in the category of something I jus want for cheap and not using a slot. Its not like it is really important lol.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 10-14-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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  13. #53
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Might as well make swordsman into a multiple selector for the different fighter weapon groups.
    Well it would only split 1-handed and 2-handed weapons but I'm cool with that or do you mean Heavy Blade Light Blade etc?

    I think that would be

    Heavy Blades: Longsword, B-Swords, Scimitars, Falchions and Greastswords
    Lightblades: Short Sword

    So still 2 but with the seonc only granting one proficiency...no point in making it a multi-selector really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    The dispel idea was not for CC. I am not sure how it would be used for that anyway. It was more for utility. Utility is one area they do use their spells. It kills spell wards. That being said, it is definetly in the category of something I jus want for cheap and not using a slot. Its not like it is really important lol.
    Mostly cause dispel clears buffs but honestly the spells is fairly useless beyond clearing spell wards...for Sorcs its annoying for a Wiz I just swap in the spell for quests with alot of em\ but thats the point of a Wiz isn't it :P

    Seriously though I wouldn't mind having it but I wouldn't find it worth giving any of my suggested enhancements up.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-14-2013 at 02:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  14. #54
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Well it would only split 1-handed and 2-handed weapons but I'm cool with that or do you mean Heavy Blade Light Blade etc?

    I think that would be

    Heavy Blades: Longsword, B-Swords, Scimitars, Falchions and Greastswords
    Lightblades: Short Sword

    So still 2 but with the seonc only granting one proficiency...no point in making it a multi-selector really.
    No, I meant give them all the weapon groups fighters have. I don't think limiting them to just swords is a good idea. I know no eldritch knight I ever played in PnP used just swords.
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    Maybe my idea belongs in an Epic Destiny or an Epic Feat or something...but I was thinking...one of the main things that really screws a 'battle mage' is Dispel Magic and Anti-Magic auras (like Beholders). I think it might be a nice ability to include some sort of additional resistance to Dispel Magic...your Caster Level counts as double, you get +10 to your Caster Level vs Dispel Magic...or maybe you're immune to it. I probably wouldn't do anything to resist the Anti-Magic things, those are powerful, and you gotta be left with a weakness...

  16. #56
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    For the fighting styles, if they're going to need min-level requirements anyways why not make them cores?
    So, for example the level 6 core is a mult-selector of:
    -Shield Mastery (no prereq)
    -Improved THF (requires THF)
    -Improved TWF (requires TWF)
    -Something based on one-handed/orb (no prereq)

    And then the level 12 core is a mult-selector where you're locked based on what you took at 6, either
    -Improved Shield Mastery
    -GTHF
    -GTWF
    -Improved Sword n' Orb

  17. #57
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    No, I meant give them all the weapon groups fighters have. I don't think limiting them to just swords is a good idea. I know no eldritch knight I ever played in PnP used just swords.
    oh I'd be fine with that

    I was mostly trying to appease the people who think EKs getting Cha/Int to atk/dmg would be the end of the world by limiting the weapon types

    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    Maybe my idea belongs in an Epic Destiny or an Epic Feat or something...but I was thinking...one of the main things that really screws a 'battle mage' is Dispel Magic and Anti-Magic auras (like Beholders). I think it might be a nice ability to include some sort of additional resistance to Dispel Magic...your Caster Level counts as double, you get +10 to your Caster Level vs Dispel Magic...or maybe you're immune to it. I probably wouldn't do anything to resist the Anti-Magic things, those are powerful, and you gotta be left with a weakness...
    This 1000x this my static group jokingly call me a god due to my unkillable nature but when I see a beholder or other buff clearing mob I have to run like a little girl and let my buddies handle it...I'd say replace the fighter feats thing I have for improved battle mage with an ability that cause your buff to become undispellable like bard songs

    Quote Originally Posted by stilesm1 View Post
    For the fighting styles, if they're going to need min-level requirements anyways why not make them cores?
    So, for example the level 6 core is a mult-selector of:
    -Shield Mastery (no prereq)
    -Improved THF (requires THF)
    -Improved TWF (requires TWF)
    -Something based on one-handed/orb (no prereq)

    And then the level 12 core is a mult-selector where you're locked based on what you took at 6, either
    -Improved Shield Mastery
    -GTHF
    -GTWF
    -Improved Sword n' Orb
    Mainly because we need other abilities in the cores.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-14-2013 at 11:11 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    oh I'd be fine with that

    I was mostly trying to appease the people who think EKs getting Cha/Int to atk/dmg would be the end of the world by limiting the weapon types
    Give int/cha to damage while wielding one, onehanded weapon (no dual wielding) and it would prevent most characters from abusing it and also sufficiently remove all other abuse (such as being just as good caster and being good in melee, you'd have to give up your staff to melee and/or your dual wielded scepters, limiting your damage bonuses and other effects.)

  19. #59
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuinainenKoski View Post
    Give int/cha to damage while wielding one, onehanded weapon (no dual wielding) and it would prevent most characters from abusing it and also sufficiently remove all other abuse (such as being just as good caster and being good in melee, you'd have to give up your staff to melee and/or your dual wielded scepters, limiting your damage bonuses and other effects.)
    I've said many times I'd be ok with EKs being focused on using a single 1-handed weapon and an orb (or shield user preference) in the off-hand in exchange for cha/int to damage and other bonuses (see Eldritch Combatant Line)...would need some low level orbs though
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-16-2013 at 10:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  20. #60
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Yeah I don't think the devs can do it either, probably annoying to code and would trip out when you reset your enhancements to tweak things...wishful thinking :P Any suggestions for improved battlemage?
    Since you're granting all martial feats with relatively steep BaB requirements the only other outlier is improved critical.

    Along the sword theme, improved critical: Sword might be an option- however this would completely remove the feat requirement to melee effectively. Wizards would be overpowered by this, but sorcs would absolutely need it, so it makes this hard.

    Other combat feats you're looking at are:
    Power Attack
    Precision
    Cleave/GC
    Overwhelming Critical
    Stunning Blow/Stunning Fist - etc

    You could go the DC route for Stunning Blow, though that's not realistic.
    I'm thinking either IC or auto granting Power Attack would be appropriate, though improved critical would probably be a bit strong.
    ~Sarlona~ - Proud Member of The Unrepentant
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