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  1. #1
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    Default looking for a Pure sorc build

    1) dont tell me "X multiclass would be better." i want a Pure Sorc cuz i want to play a Sorcerer, not the FotM uber l33t roflstomp build.

    2) Currently i'm thinking of an Earth primary, Fire secondary, but it would be great if i could have enough wiggle room to try out the other Savants if i want to.

    3) must be Drow. i'm using my +20 LR heart to do this, so i cant change the race.

    4) has 1 Sorc life under its belt already, so 30 points to play with (currently thinking 10, 10, 14, 12, 8, 20) and full set of +2 tomes

    5) Skills wise i'm thinking Spellcraft, UMD, Concentration, and Balance (Balance come in after the +2 int tome kicks in)



    what i really need the most help with is Feats. i havent played since January, and from what i understand the game has changed pretty drastically since then. For example, when i stopped playing Toughness was a pretty much "take it or gimp yourself" feat, now its nice but optional. i also heard something about changes to mental toughness as well, but not sure what those are.



    basically i just dont know what feats a good Nuker sorc needs anymore (beyond the obvious Empower and Maximize)
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  2. #2
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    well did a bit of research and came up with this:


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 27 True Neutral Drow Male
    (20 Sorcerer \ 7 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 288
    Spell Points: 2354 
    BAB: 10\10\15\20
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 7
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (30 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 27)
    Strength             10                    12
    Dexterity            10                    12
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             20                    28
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 27)
    Balance               0                    15
    Bluff                 5                    17
    Concentration         6                    33
    Diplomacy             5                    16
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                5                    16
    Heal                 -1                     7
    Hide                  0                     8
    Intimidate            5                    16
    Jump                  0                     8
    Listen               -1                     9
    Move Silently         0                     8
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                1                     9
    Search                1                    11
    Spellcraft            5                    32
    Spot                 -1                     9
    Swim                  n/a                   n/a
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      7                    27
    
    Level 1 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
    
    
    Level 2 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 8 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
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  3. #3
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeus451 View Post
    1) dont tell me "X multiclass would be better." i want a Pure Sorc cuz i want to play a Sorcerer, not the FotM uber l33t roflstomp build.
    Okay? If youre going to play a flavor sorc build, what does it matter what kind of sorc it is? In the end, it'll still be a flavor build, so just play whatever sounds interesting to you. Doesn't that make sense?

    basically i just dont know what feats a good Nuker sorc needs anymore (beyond the obvious Empower and Maximize)
    All the obvious ones. Not active past life sorc, which is a terrible feat.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeus451 View Post
    1) dont tell me "X multiclass would be better." i want a Pure Sorc cuz i want to play a Sorcerer, not the FotM uber l33t roflstomp build.

    2) Currently i'm thinking of an Earth primary, Fire secondary, but it would be great if i could have enough wiggle room to try out the other Savants if i want to.

    3) must be Drow. i'm using my +20 LR heart to do this, so i cant change the race.

    4) has 1 Sorc life under its belt already, so 30 points to play with (currently thinking 10, 10, 14, 12, 8, 20) and full set of +2 tomes

    5) Skills wise i'm thinking Spellcraft, UMD, Concentration, and Balance (Balance come in after the +2 int tome kicks in)



    what i really need the most help with is Feats. i havent played since January, and from what i understand the game has changed pretty drastically since then. For example, when i stopped playing Toughness was a pretty much "take it or gimp yourself" feat, now its nice but optional. i also heard something about changes to mental toughness as well, but not sure what those are.



    basically i just dont know what feats a good Nuker sorc needs anymore (beyond the obvious Empower and Maximize)
    I have played a pure Drow Sorcerer for a long time. One of the simplest builds in the game. Max Charisma, and put all other points into Constitution. All stat raises into Charisma. Diplomacy, Concentration, and UMD are the only skills you should consider, but UMD is the most important. Concentration is not needed if you take Quicken Spell, and really is only a way to conserve spell points (so that you don't need to use Quicken). Diplomacy is somewhat useful if you solo with a hireling or run with a group, but frankly, I never use it and never need it. Most things are dead before they can get mad enough at me to matter. Bosses just require you to be smart.

    As for feats: Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Force of Personality, Spell Focus: Evocation, and Greater Spell Focus: Evocation are the cookie cutter choices. Some people advocate Spell Penetration because they want to be more effective with crowd control and debuffing, but for me, the most effective crowd control and debuff is a dead mob. For the last choice, pick anything you like.

    You can't go wrong from here. There are many possible ways to vary this, and your choices of Epic Destiny can make a difference on the feats you want/need, but this is a good place to start.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeus451 View Post
    1) dont tell me "X multiclass would be better." i want a Pure Sorc cuz i want to play a Sorcerer, not the FotM uber l33t roflstomp build.
    Sorc 18 with either FvS or pal 2 is probably preferable for epics: FvS splash lets you add Scourge+Just Reward+Smiting; pal splash gets you Divine Grace which helps your survivability a lot, esp. since you won't have the self-repairability of a WF sorc. Plus either splash also unlocks Heal skill; max that out and add in Rejuv Cocoon to give yourself some self-heals. FvS also lets you add Emp Heal feat.
    2) Currently i'm thinking of an Earth primary, Fire secondary, but it would be great if i could have enough wiggle room to try out the other Savants if i want to.
    "Air + Fire|Water" is the usual advice; not sure if fire or cold is preferred these days, but electricity + Wind Dance is still a tough combo to beat. [Fire is definitely better w/FvS splash tho.] That said, nothing wrong with acid dmg, it just doesn't have the burst DPS of Air.
    For example, when i stopped playing Toughness was a pretty much "take it or gimp yourself" feat, now its nice but optional. i also heard something about changes to mental toughness as well, but not sure what those are.
    Turbine got rid of the Toughness enhancements; so the feat now provides just 30 HPs at lvl 28. Considering how many HPs you can get from gear, CON tomes, etc. these days, that's not enough to justify taking it on a feat-starved build like a sorc (IMO). The Mental Toughness feats now provide +1% crit chance per feat.

    I'd say the must-have feats are still Emp / Max / Heighten; and the really-good-to-have feats are SF/GSF/ESF:Evocation. That leaves you with 3 heroic and 2 epic feats. You could take MT x3 like Asmo's build; or a couple more regular metamagics (e.g., Enlarge, Extend, Quicken); or FoP for higher Will saves; or Great CHA x2 (dull, but still +1 DCs).

  6. #6
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    Tier 5 Air for Wind Dance, Core 5 fire for Shiradi Meteors and a huge fire energy burst twist, and to hit the 180 fort to be uncrittable.

    3x Evo Focus, 3x MT, combat casting, mobile spell casting (Dex 13), extend (Displacement/Haste)

    You won't have the mana to run max/emp on spells that much to be useful. Now that EE mobs have 18k health instead of 6k, and your spell damage goes up 35% (450 spell power from 300), you have to plan for more efficiency and mobility, since monsters simply live long enough to chase you around a lot now.

    It takes about 20k mana to go through EE What Goes Up. There are two? shrines in the quest. You might want to think about /2 FVS. It reduces a meteor > Cm rotation mana cost from 55 to 35, or basically 1/3 off the cost of your AoE spells. It makes force missiles > scorching ray rotation free. It is the only way I know to go through harder EE quests and be able to cast through the entire quest. Even ten minute outside shrine timer's don't provide enough mana to go through several of them as a pure sorc. while chain casting even low level spells. /2 FVS isn't uber, it's fully functional.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-13-2013 at 07:00 PM.

  7. #7
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Where are you getting your numbers from?

    180 fort required because...?

    18K HP mobs? Maybe some of the giants, but most mobs still have 6-7K HP.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Where are you getting your numbers from?

    180 fort required because...?

    18K HP mobs? Maybe some of the giants, but most mobs still have 6-7K HP.
    Cr 70+ sneak attack based mobs bypass 70+ fort. 180 is about where you want to be ideally when an EE shadar kai assassin appears on top of you and swings at you.

    It isn't just the 18k health giants, it is also pillars, minibosses, and just swarms of mobs that take a metric ton of mana to burn through. The 18k health giants are just representative of what you need to be prepared for in new EE content.

    20k mana for EE What Goes Up is from beating it several times on my sorc. 450 and 300 fire spell power is what I have now, and what I used to have on my sorc.

    No one disputes that tier 5 Air is the best, since a knockdown in EE is pretty rough with a swarm of guys hitting you for 300+ each. It's not really a strength or dex save vs. knockdown anymore. Its closer to strength check vs. automatic death. Since sorc's don't have high strength, and you can't deathward knockdowns, you end up with tier 4 Air to avoid knockdown auto kills. At that point you might as well just get tier 5 and call it a day.

    Core 5 is stronger than it appears, since it buffs energy burst twist up 7 levels, 9 with Twilight, even though all the spell level bonuses are meaningless to meteor and scorching ray (the main fire spells I use). In addition, it lets you achieve 200 fort easily.

    You can get a different core 5 than tier 5. So you can be a fire elemental with wind dance. This also lets you get even more fire spell power if you want, instead of force, since you can get 15 more fire spell power from tier 5 Air, and still get all the fire spell power the fire tree offers since it is all from core abilities.

    This will let you top out at around 470 sustained fire spell power in shiradi with healing spring and no other clickies active. 490 with alchemical pot or belt clicky. Tier 5 Air is how you deal lots of fire damage...both in raw spell power and by allowing you to move away from mobs to cast meteor.

    I've beaten all the new EE content in the game as a pure 20 fire savant with tier 5 fire and core 5 fire, without Air knockdown immunity or wind dance. It's just that it isn't always convenient or as easy as a stronger setup. I've had to leave EE quests a lot for mana, including using shrines directly outside of quests, and when that runs out having to travel to other outdoor shrines or key to eveningstar inn to drink. In addition, I've died a lot simply due to a lack of Air knockdown resistance or lack of mana.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-14-2013 at 02:46 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    I'm not following. By "core 5" do you mean the fire elemental capstone? If so, what's the point of bringing it up if you suggest 2 FvS splash?

  10. #10
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeus451 View Post
    Mental Toughness
    Past Life: Sorcerer
    Spell Focus: Evocation
    Maximize Spell
    Improved Mental Toughness
    Empower Spell
    Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    Heighten Spell
    Epic: Epic Mental Toughness
    Epic: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
    Extend Spell
    I wouldn't get the 3x Mental Toughness on a pure sorc, specially if you are not going shiradi. I'd rather go with Toughness, Epic Toughness and the free one up to you (I'd go with Quicken thou, for SLAs, Energy Burst, Dragon Breath, Solid Fog, Hellball).

    Extend is not necessary (although I also love it, I'm going to get rid of it).

    Your saves are going to suck and just yesterday I ate an EE Dragon Breath (Fot) for over 850 damage (and a disintegrate in WGU for ~600 dmg) so pile up those HP as much as you can if you want to survive in EEs
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I'm not following. By "core 5" do you mean the fire elemental capstone? If so, what's the point of bringing it up if you suggest 2 FvS splash?
    Original post wanted a pure build. Tier 5 air for wind dance and core 5 for fire elemental at the same time is well suited for a pure build. Yes, that is exactly what I mean.

    I bring up 2 FvS splash simply because I know from experience that a pure sorc build doesn't have enough mana even with MTx3 to function smoothly in high level EE quests. I made a pure sorc work, but going back to Eveningstar to drink or wandering around outside areas for additional shrines mid dungeon isn't exactly a smooth playing experience.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-14-2013 at 02:03 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Original post wanted a pure build. Tier 5 air for wind dance and core 5 for fire elemental at the same time is well suited for a pure build. Yes, that is exactly what I mean.

    I bring up 2 FvS splash simply because I know from experience that a pure sorc build doesn't have enough mana even with MTx3 to function smoothly in high level EE quests. I made a pure sorc work, but going back to Eveningstar to drink or wandering around outside areas for additional shrines mid dungeon isn't exactly a smooth playing experience.
    You just need to learn to play your Sorc better.

    WGU, full group, yesterday: didn't even drink a pot.
    EE FoT: No pot for me either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  13. #13
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    To the OP: There are a lot of opinions about the best end game build. Consensus is Shiradi, usually with Air at Tier 5 and Fire secondary (you cannot have two Tier 5 elements), for Wind Dance and Conflagration. It's a solid build. The criteria most people who say it is "best" is, in my opinion, based on the assumption that the build capable of doing the most damage, especially when solo, is the "best." Defined this way, they are probably correct (based on my experience, not verified by me in any statistical sense). Consensus has been 18 Sorc, 2 Paladin until U19, and now seems to have shifted to 18 Sorc, 2 FVS. There are plenty of discussions on why people hold these opinions, if you are interested, search the forums.

    In my opinion (just opinion) a pure Sorcerer is completely viable, though you may have a lot of trouble soloing EE, especially if you are not Warforged. Depending on your skill, resources, and tolerance for long, difficult battles, it may be impossible. But if you enjoy it, there is no reason not to go for it. Any other content is doable with a pure, non-Shiradi build, especially in groups. Play what you enjoy.

    My two cents...

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morthanos View Post
    Consensus has been 18 Sorc, 2 Paladin until U19, and now seems to have shifted to 18 Sorc, 2 FVS. There are plenty of discussions on why people hold these opinions, if you are interested, search the forums.
    In essence it boils down to FvS is better for caster DPS while pally is a lot better for saves:

    • FvS 2 splash: temp SPs (Just Reward), bonus Spellpower (Scourge), and +4% crit chance (Smiting) for "Fire, Force, Light, or Physical damage spell," so it goes really well w/Fire Savant+Missile spells. [BTW, do untyped dmg spells like Disintegrate also proc AoV effects?] Also unlocks Heal skill & access to Emp Heal feat; good if you're playing a fleshie sorc who plans to Twist in Rejuvenation Cocoon. And if you're making a melee sorc, you can add Divine Might & a couple other things from Warpriest, though now you're spreading yourself a mite too thin, IMHO.
    • Pal 2 splash: big boost to saves (Divine Grace); also adds armor & shield profs, which may come in handy when Eldritch Knight gets added. [Also unlocks Heal skill but not Emp Heal feat.]

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    In essence it boils down to FvS is better for caster DPS while pally is a lot better for saves:
    [*]FvS 2 splash: temp SPs (Just Reward), bonus Spellpower (Scourge), and +4% crit chance (Smiting) for "Fire, Force, Light, or Physical damage spell," so it goes really well w/Fire Savant+Missile spells. [BTW, do untyped dmg spells like Disintegrate also proc AoV effects?] Also unlocks Heal skill & access to Emp Heal feat; good if you're playing a fleshie sorc who plans to Twist in Rejuvenation Cocoon. And if you're making a melee sorc, you can add Divine Might & a couple other things from Warpriest, though now you're spreading yourself a mite too thin, IMHO.[/LIST]
    If you are a human fleshie with a bonus feat, sap also would save you spell points you would otherwise use for Ottos, and has no saving throw or spell pen requirements.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    In essence it boils down to FvS is better for caster DPS while pally is a lot better for saves:
    [*]FvS 2 splash: temp SPs (Just Reward), bonus Spellpower (Scourge), and +4% crit chance (Smiting) for "Fire, Force, Light, or Physical damage spell," so it goes really well w/Fire Savant+Missile spells. [BTW, do untyped dmg spells like Disintegrate also proc AoV effects?] Also unlocks Heal skill & access to Emp Heal feat; good if you're playing a fleshie sorc who plans to Twist in Rejuvenation Cocoon. And if you're making a melee sorc, you can add Divine Might & a couple other things from Warpriest, though now you're spreading yourself a mite too thin, IMHO.[/LIST]
    If you are a human fleshie with a bonus feat, sap also would save you spell points you would otherwise use for Ottos, and has no saving throw or spell pen requirements. It data drains if you use your key (staff) of the Twilight.

    Edit:

    I use core 5 air and tier 4 air trip resistance and sonic shiradi procs, and core 6 fire elemental tier 5 fire, with 8 in human for hamp, con, and traditionalist caster.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-28-2013 at 02:14 AM.

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