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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Finally, if my understanding of karma is correct (each point of XP earned in a sphere, including points that go 'over the top' of a filled destiny, contributes to karma), then getting martial karma on caster toons is going to be extremely painful, and likewise getting arcane karma is likely to be painful on melee and physical ranged DPS toons. (The other spheres offer at least something to each major character archetype, even if it is more marginal - a ranger will find some benefits in Unyielding, for instance, if not much). This is just the core failings of the ED system coming up again.
    I think this is WAI, personally. Why should a barbarian have an easy time training to be a magister? Of a wizard an easy time training to be fighter?

  2. #162
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    I think this is WAI, personally. Why should a barbarian have an easy time training to be a magister? Of a wizard an easy time training to be fighter?
    The word 'horrible' should be interpreted to mean 'not at all entertaining' in my post, not 'difficult'.

    That Barbarian will just jump into Magister and grind EH VON3, EH Wizking, and the like, until they either get to their goal or quit the game.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  3. #163
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    The word 'horrible' should be interpreted to mean 'not at all entertaining' in my post, not 'difficult'.

    That Barbarian will just jump into Magister and grind EH VON3, EH Wizking, and the like, until they either get to their goal or quit the game.
    this is 1 barbarian that wont even bother with that. if the current ED grind doesn't get improved, i wont bother beyond fate points and that will be at my leisure of when i feel like torturing myself.

  4. #164
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post

    In addition to the stacking abilities of the Epic PL feats, for every 4 Epic Past Lives earned you receive 1 fate point. That includes any Epic Sphere completions so it’s okay if you only took Martial Fortification at the end of your 3rd Epic life as the next Epic Life will earn you an additional fate point. Each fate point is granted based on your character achieving four more Epic Past Life feats.

    ~E

    HA HA HA HA HA you just doomed the 'must have it!' powergrinders to another 1000 hours of HotRB!!

    (Or whatever the quest de jour for xp/min is these days)

  5. #165
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMage View Post
    What that post is saying is that you can't follow the auto generated path with 36 point Iconics. You have to make your own build and manually take the levels to 15, which is only optional for Iconics normally. You're given enough experience to hit level 15, and you then have to go to the trainers and level up with your own path.
    Ah, got it, that makes sense.

  6. #166
    Community Member Raist1280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadriel View Post
    Edited: ah got it now, it is not what-you-are-tring-into hearts, it is what-you-are-tring-out-of hearts
    Not entirely correct: the heart used is based on the TYPE of reincarnation, i.e. if you want to reincarnate a level 20+ character back into a level 1 character you use a heroic true reincarnation heart, regardless of whether the character is/was an iconic race or will be in the next life, this grants (only) the class-based heroic past life feat. the iconic reincarnation hearts are for when you want a level 28 (current cap) iconic to return to level 15 with an iconic past life feat.
    Quote Originally Posted by SableShadow View Post
    "Half the party was vomit sprinklers, then the boss rolled in."!
    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I guess that does give new meaning to the term "spawn point."
    Orien Toons: Rahzza TR2 Cleric/25 | Tanytha TR3 Cleric/2 | Khayel TR2 Rogue/25 | Lucindah TR2 Fighter/17

  7. #167
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Do you know anything about DDO?

    Drow require SPELL PEN . . . NOT DCs. 1 PL with decent gear and EDs is enough.

    /Signed - somebody who's second-life caster pwned EE MoTUs because he's actually good at DDO.
    EE Drow require both (although the DC requirement is more easily met), which anyone that has done what you claim to have done would know. And spellpen is the WORST offender of the past lives that give 5% or more to character power.

    A caster without spellpen PLs is a Greater Shout and/or Web bot in the MOTU EEs, unless they have Shiradi developed or have the Evocation DCs to nuke them.

    And that is because the Devs looked at the spellpen players could get in MOTU beta and thought 'first lifers max at 40 spellpen without gimping themselves, multi-TRs at 49, so let's set mob SR in the 56 range so the veteran has a 65% chance to beat it and the first lifer with a 20% chance can go to hell.

    The real mistake was making 9 spellpen and 2-5 DCs available when the TR system was first introduced. A character with all the PLs that beats a mob's SR on a 3 and the mob saves on a 19 has an 81% chance to land a spell; a character with the same build and gear but missing that 9 spellpen and 5 DCs has only a 33.75% chance to land a spell in the same situation.

    Or just considering DCs - a caster with all the PLs might have a 40% chance to web an EE Stormhorns mob - that same caster without the PLs is down to 15%. Even the difference between 70% and 45% is enormous.


    If any further 5% character power increases are available (tactics, spellpen and spell DCs being the main ones) - they will go even further to excluding first life characters from endgame content when we get endgame content again. It would be advisable to choose a less OP bonus, and simply reduce the monster saves/SR by 3 instead.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  8. #168
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadriel View Post
    My only doubt is: can I tr to an iconic, to get the PL feats, and then TR back to a regular heroic? or if I tr to an iconic I'll be forever locked as an iconic?
    yes you can TR into and out of Iconic

  9. #169

    Question

    168 messages already. Wow.

    I saw nothing in Dev postings about what happens to people who have already earned ED and fate points.

    Is it in here somewhere and I just missed it?

  10. #170
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    If we haven't used our lesser reincarnation yet will it be lost or will that character get a bind to character heart of wood +0?

  11. #171
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raist1280 View Post
    The way I read it is:

    HTR into iconic (any life) start at 1 (requires level 20)
    HTR non-iconic (any life) start at 1 (requires level 20)
    ITR into iconic (any life) start at 15 (requires level cap, currently 28)


    HTR isn't discussed much, except to say that it's meant to work much the same, and Iconics will have access to it (and it is specifically called out that an Iconic can HTR back to level 1).
    Suggest you reexamine the OP on Iconic here:
    Here’s what you can do with an Iconic build:

    • Iconics can reincarnate at level cap (currently 28)
    • Iconics can earn an Iconic PL as well as the Class PL from their dominant class. (Yes, you get both!)
    • Iconics can Epic Reincarnate, Iconic True Reincarnate and use all LR Hearts of Wood.
    • You can start a new life as an iconic race after a Heroic or Iconic True Reincarnation.
    • An Iconic can reincarnate and start on the beach at level 1 as something else.
    • Iconics can reincarnate at level cap and return to level 15 as another iconic.
    • Iconics can Epic Reincarnate from level cap to level 20.
    • Iconics always start at 32 build points in their first life. For their second life, an iconic will bump up to 34 build points; once they have more build points, however, they cannot auto-level to 15 with Elminster or Lord of Blades. They must manually train back to 15.
    • Yes they do get the XP to take them to 15 regardless of the previous life.

  12. #172
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    EE Drow require both (although the DC requirement is more easily met), which anyone that has done what you claim to have done would know. And spellpen is the WORST offender of the past lives that give 5% or more to character power.

    A caster without spellpen PLs is a Greater Shout and/or Web bot in the MOTU EEs, unless they have Shiradi developed or have the Evocation DCs to nuke them.

    And that is because the Devs looked at the spellpen players could get in MOTU beta and thought 'first lifers max at 40 spellpen without gimping themselves, multi-TRs at 49, so let's set mob SR in the 56 range so the veteran has a 65% chance to beat it and the first lifer with a 20% chance can go to hell.

    The real mistake was making 9 spellpen and 2-5 DCs available when the TR system was first introduced. A character with all the PLs that beats a mob's SR on a 3 and the mob saves on a 19 has an 81% chance to land a spell; a character with the same build and gear but missing that 9 spellpen and 5 DCs has only a 33.75% chance to land a spell in the same situation.

    Or just considering DCs - a caster with all the PLs might have a 40% chance to web an EE Stormhorns mob - that same caster without the PLs is down to 15%. Even the difference between 70% and 45% is enormous.


    If any further 5% character power increases are available (tactics, spellpen and spell DCs being the main ones) - they will go even further to excluding first life characters from endgame content when we get endgame content again. It would be advisable to choose a less OP bonus, and simply reduce the monster saves/SR by 3 instead.
    If there is no REAL power increase there is no reason to pursue ETR.

    It's that simple.

    Nobody buys heart, nobody buys XP pots, no reason to spend any money here.

  13. #173
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    If there is no REAL power increase there is no reason to pursue ETR.

    It's that simple.

    Nobody buys heart, nobody buys XP pots, no reason to spend any money here.
    I think what Sirgog is trying to get through to you is that said power increases can be had without doing those things. As he explained, those things just increase a huge problem gap and throw the whole game out of whack. For example instead of an ER giving a +1 DC, have it give 5 (or 10 idk, these are arbitrary) universal spell power. Such a thing would be a REAL power increase without wreaking things where d20 rolls are concerned. This is the EXACT reason why the AC system got overhauled. It became impossible to set a reasonable to-hit modifier for against a super AC character that didn't make a non AC character's AC irrelevant. And vice versa, if the regular guy stood a chance of being missed, the super AC guy becomes a god that is missed 95% of the time just from AC.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  14. #174
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    "Reincarnation planning simplified, one build at a time",
    Let me help on your work.

    Case 1: I have a level 28 Human Cleric.
    • What happens when I use an Epic Heart?
      You get back to being a Level 20 Human Cleric (While being able to benefit from a free LR+0), will lose "Karma" (TBD) and get one Epic Past Life feat. Favor and flagging will remain untouched.
    • What happens when I use a Heroic True Heart?
      You start a new character with a Cleric Past Life, that can be of any race. Just like current TR works. Alternativelly, you can also choose to start at level 15 as an Iconic race.
    • What happens when I use an Iconic True Heart?
      You can't use an Iconic True Heart.

    Case 2: I have a level 20 Dwarf Sorcerer.
    • What happens when I use an Epic Heart?
      You can't use an Epic Heart if you are not at the level cap (Currently, 28).
    • What happens when I use a Heroic True Heart?
      You start a new character with a Sorcerer Past Life, that can be of any race. Just like current TR works. Alternativelly, you can also choose to start at level 15 as an Iconic race.
    • What happens when I use an Iconic True Heart?
      You can't use an Iconic True Heart.

    Case 3: I have a level 28 Bladeforged Paladin.
    • What happens when I use an Epic Heart?
      You get back to being a Level 20 Bladeforged Paladin (While being able to benefit from a free LR+0), will lose "Karma" (TBD) and get one Epic Past Life feat. Favor and flagging will remain untouched.
    • What happens when I use a Heroic True Heart?
      You start a new character with a Paladin Past Life, that can be of any race. Just like current TR works. Alternativelly, you can also choose to start at level 15 as an Iconic race.
    • What happens when I use an Iconic True Heart?
      You start a new character with a Bladeforged Past Life and a Paladin Past Life, that can be of any race. Just like current TR works. Alternativelly, you can also choose to start at level 15 as an Iconic race.

    Case 4: I have a level 20 Shadar-kai Rogue.
    • What happens when I use an Epic Heart?
      You can't use an Epic Heart if you are not at the level cap (Currently, 28).
    • What happens when I use a Heroic True Heart?
      You can't use a Heroic True Heart at level 20. For an Iconic character to be able to True Reincarnate, you must be at the level cap (Currently, 28).
    • What happens when I use an Iconic True Heart?
      You can't use an Iconic True Heart at level 20. For an Iconic character to be able to True Reincarnate, you must be at the level cap (Currently, 28).

    On red is what I suppose that happens. Any errors there?
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  15. #175
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    EE Drow require both (although the DC requirement is more easily met), which anyone that has done what you claim to have done would know. And spellpen is the WORST offender of the past lives that give 5% or more to character power.

    A caster without spellpen PLs is a Greater Shout and/or Web bot in the MOTU EEs, unless they have Shiradi developed or have the Evocation DCs to nuke them.

    And that is because the Devs looked at the spellpen players could get in MOTU beta and thought 'first lifers max at 40 spellpen without gimping themselves, multi-TRs at 49, so let's set mob SR in the 56 range so the veteran has a 65% chance to beat it and the first lifer with a 20% chance can go to hell.

    The real mistake was making 9 spellpen and 2-5 DCs available when the TR system was first introduced. A character with all the PLs that beats a mob's SR on a 3 and the mob saves on a 19 has an 81% chance to land a spell; a character with the same build and gear but missing that 9 spellpen and 5 DCs has only a 33.75% chance to land a spell in the same situation.

    Or just considering DCs - a caster with all the PLs might have a 40% chance to web an EE Stormhorns mob - that same caster without the PLs is down to 15%. Even the difference between 70% and 45% is enormous.


    If any further 5% character power increases are available (tactics, spellpen and spell DCs being the main ones) - they will go even further to excluding first life characters from endgame content when we get endgame content again. It would be advisable to choose a less OP bonus, and simply reduce the monster saves/SR by 3 instead.


    yeah so what is your point sirgog? first life characters should always be behind a tr. if they were the same or close what would even be the point of a tr. if you saw very little increase then it just would not be worth it. if you want the extra spell pen/dc whatever then yeah go tr to get that boost. EE was never meant to be easy ever. it was meant to be difficult.

    so i guess i just don't get what you want from them. i tr well for the hell of it and a small boost. so i understand my toon might get a little better for whatever life im doing. if a first life was all of a sudden to be just as good as my tr toons just like that. i think a lot of people would be very upset at the notion. newer players will understand if they want the boost they will need to find ways to increase it or tr.

    a while back in Rift a lot of people whined like kids that it wasn't fair that people in the start of the game had items that no one else could get or titles etc. So trion decided well lets make it so now newer players can have all the same shinies as the vets. so kinda of a kick in the nuts to the vets. Then they complained about falling damage. oh noes i died from falling. its soooo bad. get rid of it. yet again trion listened and got rid of it. this was all from simple whining. oh its not fair im taking damage from a high height or veterans have stuff i can't get. its not fair.

    its the same thing. if a first life was to get just as powerful or items just like that. It makes the vets go really? really? if you want the stuff you need to play the game or put in the time.

  16. #176
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    I'm grateful to get any heart of wood, but...

    Does this mean that you're finally going to give us more bank space? Or create a Hall of Heroes only bank (unconnected with House K's)?

    Because that's a fair chunk of inventory space for bound to character items.

  17. #177
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    This is the EXACT reason why the AC system got overhauled. It became impossible to set a reasonable to-hit modifier for against a super AC character that didn't make a non AC character's AC irrelevant. And vice versa, if the regular guy stood a chance of being missed, the super AC guy becomes a god that is missed 95% of the time just from AC.
    In addition, there was the problem that the AC tank, in raid situations, have a good bunch of AC based on buffs, to the point that if he dies and is instantly raised, in the moments it took for him to rebuff his AC (Barkskin, Enchant Armor, Defensive Stance, Haste, Combat Expertise, and other stuff that was raid required), he went down from "untouchable" to "hit on a 2". The AC buffs exceeded the +18 AC bonus to cover that gap.

    This is happening today with spell DC, since a lot of stuff happens to buff only one school, while letting the rest drag behind. Epic Spell Focus is a 3-feat chain that buff a single school by 3 DC. Magister have a T2 enhancement that buffs a single school by another +3. There are casting sticks with up to +5 DC to a single school, while the best "general" DC item is +2. This creates another +3 gap. In the end this means that the DC gap between your primary school and the others schools is 9 points large.

    So, let's says I have a Enchantment DC of 70. With those gaps this means my Conjuration/Necro DC is 61. If I meet a foe with higher than normal Will saves, I should switch to fortitude or reflex-based spells because in theory they hit better. However this specific mob have a 60 Will save and a 55 Reflex/Fortitude. This means I have 45% chance to land an enchantment spell, but only 20% to land an instakill/web. This disencourages what is supposed to be a Wizard's strong point: Versatility. The ability to change their spellbook between quests to fit the mobs they face. There is no point in switching because the DC gap is bigger than the mob's save gap.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  18. #178
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    I think what Sirgog is trying to get through to you is that said power increases can be had without doing those things. As he explained, those things just increase a huge problem gap and throw the whole game out of whack. For example instead of an ER giving a +1 DC, have it give 5 (or 10 idk, these are arbitrary) universal spell power. Such a thing would be a REAL power increase without wreaking things where d20 rolls are concerned. This is the EXACT reason why the AC system got overhauled. It became impossible to set a reasonable to-hit modifier for against a super AC character that didn't make a non AC character's AC irrelevant. And vice versa, if the regular guy stood a chance of being missed, the super AC guy becomes a god that is missed 95% of the time just from AC.
    The bolded part just shows you know absolutely nothing about DDO.

  19. #179
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The bolded part just shows you know absolutely nothing about DDO.
    He was talking in past tense.

    As in: Before MotU AC revamp.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  20. #180
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    yeah so what is your point sirgog? first life characters should always be behind a tr. if they were the same or close what would even be the point of a tr. if you saw very little increase then it just would not be worth it. if you want the extra spell pen/dc whatever then yeah go tr to get that boost. EE was never meant to be easy ever. it was meant to be difficult.

    so i guess i just don't get what you want from them. i tr well for the hell of it and a small boost. so i understand my toon might get a little better for whatever life im doing. if a first life was all of a sudden to be just as good as my tr toons just like that. i think a lot of people would be very upset at the notion. newer players will understand if they want the boost they will need to find ways to increase it or tr.

    a while back in Rift a lot of people whined like kids that it wasn't fair that people in the start of the game had items that no one else could get or titles etc. So trion decided well lets make it so now newer players can have all the same shinies as the vets. so kinda of a kick in the nuts to the vets. Then they complained about falling damage. oh noes i died from falling. its soooo bad. get rid of it. yet again trion listened and got rid of it. this was all from simple whining. oh its not fair im taking damage from a high height or veterans have stuff i can't get. its not fair.

    its the same thing. if a first life was to get just as powerful or items just like that. It makes the vets go really? really? if you want the stuff you need to play the game or put in the time.
    I'm going to agree with this post here. If it's possible to do things that increase your character power, there needs to be a place where doing that is relevant.

    In this game, the strength of your toon matters. You can't just do everything with learned skill. It needs to be that way, or there would be little incentive for long term play, since it's possible to progress character power long after you have learned everything you can learn about metagaming and "twitch' skills. I actually think twitch skills are maxed out in about a week or two for anybody who has played other video games.

    The use of the word elite in the difficulty setting should mean something. Why should a first life character be elite?

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