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  1. #261
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    That is the intent, in the same manner that we retain it today when you LR.

    The method we are taking for ER does not recreate your character as True reincarnation will. ER, like LR, clears your character training (points/feats/enhancments) and resets your XP to a predetermined value. ....But that is all behind the scenes.
    Your experience will be more like - spend karma, drop Epic XP, reset heroic training, gain an autogranted feat with stacking active and passive abilities. (on your fourth time around you gain a fate point.)
    This may even have the added benefit of breathing a bit of life back into 'old' epic crafting. People on the ER train will want good ML20 Twink, aka 'old' epic Gear. Have you considered any type of tweaks to drop rates for scroll/seal/shards? Have you made any progress on fixes to the 20th lists, specifically the disconnect between what we've been told and what the GMs are actually doing?
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    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  2. #262
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    That is the intent, in the same manner that we retain it today when you LR.

    The method we are taking for ER does not recreate your character as True reincarnation will. ER, like LR, clears your character training (points/feats/enhancments) and resets your XP to a predetermined value. ....But that is all behind the scenes.
    Your experience will be more like - spend karma, drop Epic XP, reset heroic training, gain an autogranted feat with stacking active and passive abilities. (on your fourth time around you gain a fate point.)
    This is awesome, i'll be in a constant state of ETR. No reason not to be, EE GH at level 20 is fun

  3. #263
    The Hatchery dejafu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Clarifying continuing confusion:
    After performing either True Reincarnation, your Next Life can either be a "normal" level 1 Eberron character on the beach with Jeets, or an Iconic character "starting" at level 15 (as Iconic characters currently do, which means you can actually walk out on Elminster or the Lord of Blades at level 1 with all your XP if you want to, and go your own way).
    Thanks for the careful explanations!

    Question about Iconics, though: I know it was said that Iconics will be able to use Lesser Reincarnation to retrain their mandatory 1st level in their iconic class to something different (so a Wizard 19/Cleric 1 Morninglord could retrain to Wizard 20 with a +1 LR).

    Does this mean that we will also be able to choose to make an Iconic whatever class we want at 1st level after an Iconic TR? Or will somebody TRing into a Morninglord still have to start with a minimum of 1 level of cleric that can only be replaced with a LR?
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    Turning Ghostbane into a meme is, in my book, the best thing to happen to DDO in awhile.

  4. #264
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Will the iconic PL class be determined by the iconic, or by the preponderance of class levels?

    Would a Pal 2 / Sorc 18 / Epic 8 Bladeforged get the Paladin (because it is Bladeforged) or Sorc (because that's where the bulk of the levels are) PL?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  5. #265
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Clarifying continuing confusion:

    Heroic True Reincarnation (HTR)
    Heroic characters can HTR to earn a class-based Heroic Past Life.
    You must be level 20+ to do this.
    Iconic characters cannot HTR.

    Iconic True Reincarnation (ITR)
    Iconic characters can ITR to earn a class-based Heroic Past Life and an Iconic Past Life.
    You must be at level cap to do this.
    Non-Iconic characters cannot ITR

    Next Life
    After performing either True Reincarnation, your Next Life can either be a "normal" level 1 Eberron character on the beach with Jeets, or an Iconic character "starting" at level 15 (as Iconic characters currently do, which means you can actually walk out on Elminster or the Lord of Blades at level 1 with all your XP if you want to, and go your own way). The kind of Heart of Wood you need always relates to your current life, not your Next Life.

    Epic Reincarnation
    Epic Reincarnation does not interact in any way with the other forms of reincarnation (though it is similar to Lesser Reincarnation in many aspects). You cannot gain Heroic nor Iconic Past lives from Epic Reincarnation. The only way to gain Epic Past Lives is through Epic Reincarnation. Neither form of True Reincarnation earns you an Epic Past Life.




    Non-iconic characters can follow up an Epic Reincarnation with a Heroic Reincarnation. They are separate processes, however. We've considered adding yet another form of reincarnation that combines these, but that added complication won't be part of Update 20.
    So once you go Iconnic . . . you can never go back?

  6. #266
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So once you go Iconnic . . . you can never go back?
    Nah - look again "after you TR, your next life can be EITHER" ...
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  7. #267
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    That is the intent, in the same manner that we retain it today when you LR.

    The method we are taking for ER does not recreate your character as True reincarnation will. ER, like LR, clears your character training (points/feats/enhancments) and resets your XP to a predetermined value. ....But that is all behind the scenes.
    Your experience will be more like - spend karma, drop Epic XP, reset heroic training, gain an autogranted feat with stacking active and passive abilities. (on your fourth time around you gain a fate point.)
    If this is the case, could you think of some xp bonus for ER to replace the lack of a first time bonus?
    I'm not attracted to the idea of having to relevel to 28 that much slower than I already am.

  8. #268
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Apologies if this has already been answered somewhere:

    Do all new Reincarnations preserve your current ED's the way TR does now? If I do a Heroic True Reincarnation at, say level 24, will I have upon reaching level 20 all the Epic Destiny points where I left them off?
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

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  9. #269
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    We're planning to add subcategories on the character sheet for each kind of past life.

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Will the iconic PL class be determined by the iconic, or by the preponderance of class levels?

    Would a Pal 2 / Sorc 18 / Epic 8 Bladeforged get the Paladin (because it is Bladeforged) or Sorc (because that's where the bulk of the levels are) PL?
    After performing an Iconic True Reincarnation as described, you would earn both the Bladeforged Iconic Past Life and the Sorcerer Heroic Past Life. (Iconic Heroes cannot perform Heroic True Reincarnation.)

    There are four new Iconic Past Lives, one for each iconic. The IPL is always based on your Iconic race.

    You also get a separate class-based Heroic Past Life, the same as you have been able to get for years now. Those Heroic Past Lives are essentially unchanged, and are determined by your dominant class, as currently happens in U19.

  10. #270
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're planning to add subcategories on the character sheet for each kind of past life.



    After performing an Iconic True Reincarnation as described, you would earn both the Bladeforged Iconic Past Life and the Sorcerer Heroic Past Life. (Iconic Heroes cannot perform Heroic True Reincarnation.)

    There are four new Iconic Past Lives, one for each iconic. The IPL is always based on your Iconic race.

    You also get a separate class-based Heroic Past Life, the same as you have been able to get for years now. Those Heroic Past Lives are essentially unchanged, and are determined by your dominant class, as currently happens in U19.
    Thanks for the quick response
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Non-iconic characters can follow up an Epic Reincarnation with a Heroic Reincarnation. They are separate processes, however. We've considered adding yet another form of reincarnation that combines these, but that added complication won't be part of Update 20.
    Will HTR, ER, & LR share the same Reincarnation timer? As in, after I ER do I have a timer before I can do a HTR or LR+1?

  12. #272
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    so for those of us still working on our completionists and stuff, The process is going to be:

    1. Get to Cap.
    2. use an Epic Heart.
    3. LR through the 20 levels.
    4. Use a heroic heart.
    5. profit...


    Retaking the 20 levels just to immediately TR seems like it's going to be a waste of time. You had mentioned that if there's a demand for "Retrain this current life" you guys will code it. I'm voicing my vote to code it, please.

  13. #273
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    Do all new Reincarnations preserve your current ED's the way TR does now? If I do a Heroic True Reincarnation at, say level 24, will I have upon reaching level 20 all the Epic Destiny points where I left them off?
    Every form of reincarnation preserves Epic Destiny progression.

    To avoid confusion, all reincarnations except for Lesser Reincarnation do affect other epic advancement (and even Lesser affects it, but you can make the same choices again during LR). You won't keep any Epic Levels or Epic Feats earned from character level progression.

  14. #274
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    When is Karma going to be consumed exactly?

    Suppose I'm hating my FvS life, and HTR at level 23 after filling out Exalted Angel. Will that earned karma be wiped on HTR, or only when used in an ER?


    If my main is an Arti, that enjoys no synergy with 8/11ths of the destinies, and I do a life as a druid, can I bank Karma in other spheres? For example, the first ER chooses a Primal EPL; what happens to the Divine, Martial, and Arcane karma earned?



    EDIT:

    Clear your heroic and epic XP as well as Karma from the Epic Destiny Sphere you selected,
    If Karma is a point system, where you're earning 1 karma per 1,000,000 epic xp (for example), why clear the destiny instead of decrement it? Presuming that the 3 feats in a sphere have differing Karma requirements, a 1 point, 2 point, and 3 point: If I earn 5 karma, and spend 2 karma on a past life, why is the other 3 lost?
    Last edited by Systern; 10-11-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  15. #275
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Timers for True Reincarnation are likely to be one shared timer for both Iconic and Heroic. Lesser reincarnation likely remains on its own timer as it is now. Epic Reincarnation is likely on a brand new timer.

    We are also considering allowing LR+0 as a special case to be used regardless of all timers, and not starting a timer when used. There are some concerns and issues with repeatedly performing LR+5 in a short span of time that are not as major concerns for LR+0.

    These are all subject to change. The exact times are subject to review and change with U20 as well. We may consider reducing the one week timer.

  16. #276
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Our current intent is that Karma is only spent or lost when performing Epic Reincarnation and earning an Epic Past Life. Other forms of Reincarnation don't affect Karma.

  17. #277
    DDO Senior Producer Glin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    so for those of us still working on our completionists and stuff, The process is going to be:

    1. Get to Cap.
    2. use an Epic Heart.
    3. LR through the 20 levels.
    4. Use a heroic heart.
    5. profit...

    Retaking the 20 levels just to immediately TR seems like it's going to be a waste of time. You had mentioned that if there's a demand for "Retrain this current life" you guys will code it. I'm voicing my vote to code it, please.
    I have been asking to keep this on the task list, so much so they are calling it "Erik's Total Reincarnation"...I think that's a joke. But yes, we will be watching the trends in the beginning to see how many Epic characters jump on the ER heart and quickly turn around to HTR. (Voting is also ok. )

    The user experience in this case could be simular to ITR -- lv cap [at 28] as a non-iconic character, True reincarnate as an epic character (probably a new Heart of Wood), start at level one with an Epic and Class PL. (Same as quite above w/a couple steps skipped) --
    Again, this will not be in U20; I left it out of the OP to keep focus on U20.
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  18. #278
    Hero Phoenix-daBard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Timers for True Reincarnation are likely to be one shared timer for both Iconic and Heroic. Lesser reincarnation likely remains on its own timer as it is now. Epic Reincarnation is likely on a brand new timer.

    We are also considering allowing LR+0 as a special case to be used regardless of all timers, and not starting a timer when used. There are some concerns and issues with repeatedly performing LR+5 in a short span of time that are not as major concerns for LR+0.

    These are all subject to change. The exact times are subject to review and change with U20 as well. We may consider reducing the one week timer.
    What about scaling the time according to the plus value? Doesn't matter to me but does add a possible bit of flexibility.

  19. #279
    Community Member mrtweakin's Avatar
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    This all sounds really good. I am actually excited to hop on the ETR train now.

    Could we possibly inject completionist as a passive feat into the conversation since it is somewhat related?
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  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    No, there will be a mechanic in game that will allow you to earn Hearts of Wood thru gameplay.
    It would better not involve 20 commendations of heroism or you can all go buy pichfork-proof coats.

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