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  1. #201
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    What about having a feat for a two and three time completionist? Or giving the completionist feat for free on the second and third go around?

  2. #202
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    yeah so what is your point sirgog? first life characters should always be behind a tr. if they were the same or close what would even be the point of a tr. if you saw very little increase then it just would not be worth it. if you want the extra spell pen/dc whatever then yeah go tr to get that boost. EE was never meant to be easy ever. it was meant to be difficult.
    There is a big difference between behind and hopelessly behind.

    28 point builds are behind 36 pointers, but the difference is usually an 18 in one stat becoming a 16, and Con dropping 2 points. That's 5% behind in offensive capacity, and 28 hp - far from hopelessly behind. Yet most players will work on getting to 36 points in time.

    Contrast that to an Evoker FVS (currently an out of fashion build, but has been powerful in the past and may be again). Their gains for Implosion are as follows:

    - +1 DC Wiz active PL
    - +3 DC Sorc passive PL acquired three times
    - (rarer) +1 DC Completionist

    20-25% is a ridiculous gap in effectiveness - much more than gear provides. (For instance the DPS difference between EN First Blood and EE First Blood is about 3%).

    its the same thing. if a first life was to get just as powerful or items just like that. It makes the vets go really? really? if you want the stuff you need to play the game or put in the time.
    The game doesn't reward all the ridiculously time consuming things you could do. Running Waterworks at level 20 is (correctly) not rewarded at all with in-game power because it is in no way an achievement. The same can be said for running Epic Hard content on a level 20 in a capped, synergistic destiny.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  3. #203
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    More bolded stuff proving you know nothing.

    Pre-Motu tank with an 85?

    Grazing hits?

    Old epics?

    Did you start playing DDO in 2013?

    Regardless, 1 AC for an Epic PL is is big bucket of meh, but we should withhold judgement until we see the full list.
    Are we really doing this?

    Pre U14:

    "Player characters get a Grazing hit on misses where the natural roll is 10-19. Monsters need various rolls depending on the difficulty setting of the quest: 19 on Solo, 17-19 on Normal, 15-19 on Hard, and 13-19 on Elite. The Grazing hit does damage only equal to the base damage of the weapon (such as 1d8 for a longsword) minus any Strength penalties. Damage bonuses from feats, Strength, magic weapons, and other sources do not apply to Grazing hits. Grazing hits won't work if the attacker is not proficient with the weapon, and PCs can't get them with offhand weapons."

    That is chump change for damage, players or monsters. Yes they'll get hit more than 5% of the time because of grazing hits but they are only getting hit 5% of the time for any damage that really matters. EDIT: I do admit I overlooked this, but the reason I overlooked it was because it is barely relevant. But I concede that my statement wasn't 100% correct, although this difference doesn't change my point in the least.

    Yes 85 AC. Just a quick glance through the forums and I can find that.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...Hate-Generator 107 AC fully buffed out. Includes shield blocking but that's only 5 (so only 102)

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ented-Stalwart 100-112 AC buffed out.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...light=ac+build 76 without some odd buffs

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...hter6-Paladin2 97 self buffed

    I could go. I just grabbed ones that came up.

    Old epics- Yes I know. However some of these AC builds got missed by some things in Epics. Also remember that at that time, there was a lot of end game that wasn't epic.


    I started playing in November 2009 as my account is labeled.
    Last edited by Diyon; 10-10-2013 at 10:56 PM.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  4. #204
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    Are we really doing this?
    We don't have to. You can surrender at any time, in a trolling contest against me you simply cannot win.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    I started playing in November 2009 as my account is labeled.
    You'd think you'd know DDO better then.

  5. #205
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    Old epics- Yes I know. However some of these AC builds got missed by some things in Epics. Also remember that at that time, there was a lot of end game that wasn't epic.
    IIRC, there was even data on AC benchmarks for eADQ, VoD, HoX, ToD, Chrono and LoB. If you wanted to be a raid tank, you should get to those benchmark values, or ignore AC and go full-retard DPS.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  6. #206
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Default This is Teh Troll

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We don't have to. You can surrender at any time, in a trolling contest against me you simply cannot win.
    .

  7. #207
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We don't have to. You can surrender at any time, in a trolling contest against me you simply cannot win.




    You'd think you'd know DDO better then.
    Well good job with the ad hominem and ignoring that I refuted your points. You could at least be decent and make an attempt to attack my counterpoints rather than dismissing them. I showed you builds preMotU with 85+ AC. I made note about glancing blows and addressed it. I pointed out how epics weren't all of end game then.

    If you don't have support for counter evidence to what I just provided, you can say whatever you want, but having "lost" is not what I'll have done.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  8. #208
    Community Member Gywiden's Avatar
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    So let's say I wanted to do my wizard PL feat using a Bladeforged. This would work correct? From what I'm reading you are saying that doing an Iconic TR would give the Paladin PL feat and the Iconic PL feat if you went the normal path, but would it give Wizard and Bladeforged PL feats if I did this?

  9. #209
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    Well good job with the ad hominem and ignoring that I refuted your points. You could at least be decent and make an attempt to attack my counterpoints rather than dismissing them. I showed you builds preMotU with 85+ AC. I made note about glancing blows and addressed it. I pointed out how epics weren't all of end game then.

    If you don't have support for counter evidence to what I just provided, you can say whatever you want, but having "lost" is not what I'll have done.
    I don't need evidence, your own posts are more than enough evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about.

    And attacking a persons statements is not a personal attack. I have not idea if you are a decent person or not, you probably are. But you know nothing about DDO.

  10. #210
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gywiden View Post
    So let's say I wanted to do my wizard PL feat using a Bladeforged. This would work correct? From what I'm reading you are saying that doing an Iconic TR would give the Paladin PL feat and the Iconic PL feat if you went the normal path, but would it give Wizard and Bladeforged PL feats if I did this?
    Yeah, I'm confused by this as well. Good question.

  11. #211
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gywiden View Post
    So let's say I wanted to do my wizard PL feat using a Bladeforged. This would work correct? From what I'm reading you are saying that doing an Iconic TR would give the Paladin PL feat and the Iconic PL feat if you went the normal path, but would it give Wizard and Bladeforged PL feats if I did this?
    Iconic TR will give you the PL feat just like a Heroic TR.

    if you went Bladeforged 1 Paladin 19 Wizard 8 Epic then Iconic TR. you will get Iconic Past life Bladeforged and Herioc Past life Wizard. You will not get heroic past life Paladin.

  12. #212
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I don't need evidence, your own posts are more than enough evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about.

    And attacking a persons statements is not a personal attack. I have not idea if you are a decent person or not, you probably are. But you know nothing about DDO.
    Responding with to my arguments only with "You'd think you'd know DDO better then." is technically attacking my credibility rather than what I was saying.

    I don't understand how my own posts are evidence to that. If that is indeed true, I'd like to come to understand that so I can correct my viewpoint. However, I responded with direct evidence that undermines the points with which you were saying prove that I don't know what I'm talking about, particularly the existence of preMotU tanks with 85+ AC. Do you believe that evidence I provided is fake?

    Some of the stuff you said basically boiled down to: I believe there were preMotU tanks with 85 or higher AC therefore I don't know what I'm talking about because that isn't true.

    I provided evidence that it is true, with builds with it all broken down and everything. So why do I still know nothing? How did my evidence that I provided fail to meet the points you brought against me?
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  13. #213
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post

    Some of the stuff you said basically boiled down to: I believe there were preMotU tanks with 85 or higher AC therefore I don't know what I'm talking about because that isn't true.

    Sigh . . . I was "LOLing" the 85 AC remark because that was a pathetically low AC for a tank pre MoTU. My own two at the time were 95 and 100.

    You don't know what you're talking about because they were by no means invulnerable. Grazes on a 13 on elite content and bosses like the LOB and Horoth still grazed for 50-80 points.

    I'll give you a hint . . . anytime somebody says "get's missed" 95% of the time is simply wrong and clueless as to how the game used to work. If you don't want to look like you have no idea what you are talking about don't say stuff like this.

  14. #214
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Sigh . . . I was "LOLing" the 85 AC remark because that was a pathetically low AC for a tank pre MoTU. My own two at the time were 95 and 100.

    You don't know what you're talking about because they were by no means invulnerable. Grazes on a 13 on elite content and bosses like the LOB and Horoth still grazed for 50-80 points.

    I'll give you a hint . . . anytime somebody says "get's missed" 95% of the time is simply wrong and clueless as to how the game used to work. If you don't want to look like you have no idea what you are talking about don't say stuff like this.
    As someone that used to raid heal before raiding died in motu, the people that said they were tanks with 85ac weren't tanks. They were dps with really bad dps.

  15. #215
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    As someone that used to raid heal before raiding died in motu, the people that said they were tanks with 85ac weren't tanks. They were dps with really bad dps.
    my dwarf 28 point build was able to hit 85 AC with raid gear and GS, no epic gear back when AC was all or nothing. unfortunately his AC was about the same as his dps. after the changes to to-hit and AC and needing to actually do damage to hold agro, i sent him on a TR train. the tank life is far behind him now.

  16. #216
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Sigh . . . I was "LOLing" the 85 AC remark because that was a pathetically low AC for a tank pre MoTU. My own two at the time were 95 and 100.

    You don't know what you're talking about because they were by no means invulnerable. Grazes on a 13 on elite content and bosses like the LOB and Horoth still grazed for 50-80 points.

    I'll give you a hint . . . anytime somebody says "get's missed" 95% of the time is simply wrong and clueless as to how the game used to work. If you don't want to look like you have no idea what you are talking about don't say stuff like this.
    Ok, thank you for the clarification, of course my counterarguments seem silly when the intention behind what you were saying wasn't clear. I will now add some clarification of my own.

    1- I was just going with a number that was sufficienct to demonstrate that gap that was important to my point. I was perfectly aware of how much higher AC could go. My point there was the gap was already overlarge with the numbers I used for the example. I'll admit "super" was probably not called for in that context. Poor choice of descriptor.

    I was never implying that something was getting missed 95% in everything. Different stuff was calibrated differently. I also specifically used the word monster, not specifically raid boss. In a lot of situations these characters could pretty much be having trash miss them 95% and trash grazing hits don't really compare to Horoth and LoB. Also, that's on elite. Those were very frequently run by end-game players on normal (and hard too). Which significantly reduces the amount of grazing hits occurring.

    In any case, the entire point of this whole thing was showing that AC didn't matter squat at end game to anyone not with decked out, buffed out, geared out character that specifically built for it. Your typical rogues? AC irrelevant. Etc. The reason this was that way was because of the d20 roll and the huge gap in numbers for reasonable values to expect on characters in the game. The point being spell DCs work the same way, and that gap is starting to push out players who haven't invested large amounts of time from playing DC-based casters, whereas its not pushing out other characters with similiar time investments.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  17. #217

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    Get a room you two. It hurts the community to have official threads like this filled up with unrelated petty bickering.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Finally, if my understanding of karma is correct (each point of XP earned in a sphere, including points that go 'over the top' of a filled destiny, contributes to karma), then getting martial karma on caster toons is going to be extremely painful
    Martial for DC casters won't necessarily be bad; you can use shadowdancer for int or flowers for wisdom. Bards and sorcs get nothing, though, IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwinge View Post
    Heroic TR currently requires that you have purchased or unlocked 32 point build before you can do it.
    No it doesn't. My first two characters were both TRed from 28pt to 34pt builds long before I owned enough content to reach 1750 favor.

  18. #218
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwinge View Post
    I didn't read the entire thread, so this may have been asked already...

    Heroic TR currently requires that you have purchased or unlocked 32 point build before you can do it.

    Will there be a similar purchase/unlock that is required in order to do an epic reincarnation? If so, and if it's something new (or store only right now), please also make it a total favor unlock (perhaps at 3,500 total favor?).

    I assume that having access to an iconic would be a sufficient purchase for unlocking the ability to iconic TR so I don't imagine any further purchase will be required for that (though adding a new iconic with a favor unlock option would be cool).

    The 32 point unlock was only required for the first few months after TRing was released. For years now it hasn't been required.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  19. #219
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    I know this question has been asked repeatedly, but it bears repeating since its yet to be answered as far as I can see.
    For ER, how are you handling quest completions?
    After I ER would I be eligible for bravery bonuses for quests that I had completed prior to the ER?
    Would my favor earned be saved?
    Would my raid completions be saved?

    I'm very curious as to how you'll handle this. If you reset quest completions that would mean I would be eligible for BB again (nice), but I would have to rerun for favor (not nice). If you don't reset quest completions, that means I would have to relevel without BB (not nice), but I would have all of my favor earned saved (nice).
    In other words, if I am eligible for BB for quests that I've run prior to the ER and save all favor earned, I'll be a happy man.

  20. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    To clarify a point that may be unintuitive, coming from the existing Heroic Past Lives:

    Each Epic Past Live is not associated with a specific destiny. Rather, each Epic Destiny Sphere has a list of Past Lives associated with the sphere. We are currently expecting that each Sphere will have 3 different past lives when U20 launches, which is 12 Past Lives total.

    These past lives do not require a feat slot and are always automatically granted.

    One of the reasons we went with the single feat that has both a passive and active 'toggle' component was so that we had more freedom to create stronger 'toggle' abilities while attempting to not utterly destroy balance between newer vs. veteran characters. We still wanted to maintain the smaller passive bonus so you always gained some benefit from additional Epic Past Lives (besides building up to more Fate Points). This means that someone with only one Epic Past Life in each Sphere is not extremely far behind in power compared to someone who has all the Epic Past Lives, but that second character has far more options. Those additional options are also more valuable if your decide to take that character through some Heroic TRs and completely switch playstyles. Some past lives favor casters vs. melee, etc.

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