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  1. #61
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    Inferno - 6400 - 20min +/-2min
    Vol - 5800 - 6min +/- 1min - using 2key method one guy maybe left behind doing traps
    Perdition - 7000 - 6min +/- 1min
    Fleshmakers -5800 - 6min +/- 2min (damn air ellies)
    Personal experience: Except by inferno, I take 3 or 4 times longer to complete the other quests at level on elite. There is also the factor that I hate Necro 4 quests and only run them once for favor.

    I can see how Ghost may be easily zerged with the right party, but that final fight is brutal if you have a bit of bad luck (one or two disintegrates failed and the fight drops into chaos quickly). Vol is quick if you split up, but I never saw an elite completion at the six minute mark.

    And I am really surprised to not see Hold for Reinforcements or Keeper's Sanctuary on that first pass.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  2. #62
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We are still planning some changes to the XP Curves, including consideration for 2nd and 3rd lives.

    To clarify, most of these decisions have been based on making focused changes to known trouble areas, such as targeting some particular character levels and content, and are based on actual XP earned by players and quest completion times.
    known trouble areas are between levels 15-17. the norm in the game is elite BB and a lot of players run quests 2 levels above base quest. just something to think about.

    level 15 best xp quest is Litany and In the Flesh. all other quests are meh or utterly poor even with max xp achieved. not many attempt at level In the Flesh because of the end fight. even I will admit that end fight is too difficult and needs to be knocked down a notch. more people would run it at level than. because the rest of the quests have low xp, this is why people bleed Litany dry. suggest adjusting quest xp or adding more quests in that range.

    level 16 and up there are a ton of quests that people can run and if they stay true to the 2 levels above base quest level, they have all level 16-20 quests. some do deviate from this though at 17 and start running Vale, but even then they should still have plenty of quests to run, especially with daily bonus and there are the known xp/min quests.

  3. #63
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    My list of quests that i really love running but often skip because they're too long to reasonably solo or even group:


    • Hiding in Plain Sight (Can't remember the last time I ran this, and that end fight alone is worth more xp)
    • The Enemy Within (I've never finished this quest with ship buffs, even in a full group. And it's paltry xp)
    • Dreams of Insanity (I soloed this last life, took me a half hour and i only got 500 xp/min outta it)
    • Ataraxia (My first TR I only had this and Threnal to get me from 9-13. Please don't make F2P suffer anymore, It was traumatizing)
    • Threnal (I literally have not run this in a couple of years. It's a fun quest chain but worthless xp)
    • Sins of Attrition (on non-casters, this is a brutal quest with exceedingly poor xp/min)
    • Acid Wit (If at all possible, just make the final optional more Weapons Shipment-y and make it worth as much XP as the quest)
    Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas


  4. #64

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    I don't imagine any of the changes will be meaningful. Remember when they nerfed rusted blades xp? I could barely tell a difference. I'm guessing this is how all these changes will be: trivial. The good quests will still be good and the bad quests will still be bad with no appreciable change to how players play the game or get their xp. So I don't much care about these adjustments.

    For another example, after nerfing challenge repeat xp into the ground they promised to raise it in the future. Then they did. Yes, that's right, the repeat challenge xp was, to the devs' satisfaction, raised to the correct levels. In their minds they made good on that promise. We as players know that repeat challenge xp is wholly worthless, not worth a single minute of your time. But to the devs, that xp is correct.

    So none of these xp changes will amount to anything. Don't worry about nerfs, don't get excited for buffs. There won't be a single quest that will change from bad to good or good to bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Only recently have we been able to change base XP without altering the amount of favor that players have already earned.
    It makes me extremely nervous that dungeon favor is calculated on the fly instead of being manually assigned as a fixed number for each quest.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We are still planning some changes to the XP Curves, including consideration for 2nd and 3rd lives.
    This is really the one thing I was looking forward to the most with update 20. The focus seems to be shifting towards Epic Levels and Epic TR (new raids, level cap raise to 30...) and the impact of heroic past life feats vs epic destinies is not that much. To me it makes sense to lower requirements for heroic XP or even eliminate the increase altogether. I would be willing to be that if you lower it enough you will actually sell MORE Ottos boxes (since more people will go through heroic TR). As it stands now many don't/won't go through heroic TR's on new toons because there isn't enough gain for the time it takes.

    Also... put shears back in as WAI just the way they were before. People love leveling multiple destinies at once. Since many will TR and only retain XP in ONE destiny per Epic Life it is not as impactful as it used to be. Also... you do like money right? Think of all the shears you would sell...

  6. #66
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    My list of quests that i really love running but often skip because they're too long to reasonably solo or even group:


    • Hiding in Plain Sight (Can't remember the last time I ran this, and that end fight alone is worth more xp)
    • The Enemy Within (I've never finished this quest with ship buffs, even in a full group. And it's paltry xp)
    • Dreams of Insanity (I soloed this last life, took me a half hour and i only got 500 xp/min outta it)
    • Ataraxia (My first TR I only had this and Threnal to get me from 9-13. Please don't make F2P suffer anymore, It was traumatizing)
    • Threnal (I literally have not run this in a couple of years. It's a fun quest chain but worthless xp)
    • Sins of Attrition (on non-casters, this is a brutal quest with exceedingly poor xp/min)
    • Acid Wit (If at all possible, just make the final optional more Weapons Shipment-y and make it worth as much XP as the quest)
    Dreams of Insanity is possible to do extremely quickly, but only in a great group. It's similar to A New Invasion in that regard - 2000 XP a minute in a top-10% group, 500 XP a minute for most others. (Dreams is a lot faster on lower difficulties too, where most players can split up).

    Sins of Attrition is over 1000 XP a minute on any character with high standing DR and AOE damage. Pale Masters in particular. I soloed it (on a melee-specced cleric with anemic Bladebarriers that did most damage in melee) on elite in ~18 min last life, with the option of doing normal runs afterward in 9-11 min.

    Agree with the others. The Enemy Within is OK on a first bravery run in a group with two casters, but nothing special.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    Base XP - Elite - vs. Time to complete in a moderately competent group (no real exploits).


    Inferno - 6400 - 20min +/-2min
    Vol - 5800 - 6min +/- 1min - using 2key method one guy maybe left behind doing traps
    Perdition - 7000 - 6min +/- 1min
    Fleshmakers -5800 - 6min +/- 2min (damn air ellies)

    Notes - Vol/Inferno Easily soloable on elite regardless of class (just need decent reflex save). GOP and Fleshmakers much harder to do so due to end fight in GOP and runes in Fleshmakers.

    So given all that what needs to be fixed here? I am pretty sure its NOT Vol. I'll give you a hint 'it keeps the hot side hot and the cold side cold'.....Inferno you guessed it the least run of the Orchard quests (1 or 2 times to get your sigil filled).....Add to that there is also NO optional XP in Inferno AND its a pain in the butt to run if you don't have UMD or ability to cast fireball/icestorm or similar spells. Really don't nerf Vol - Vastly bump Inferno. I like the quest - I like the mechanic but if your touching the Orchard look here not at Vol.
    Inferno is quicker than Fleshmakers in my experience.

    Generally Inferno takes me 13-14 min solo, 10-12 min leading a PUG, and 5 min leading a channel group with at least two other people that know it well. One minute more for Elite (increased Cinderspawn beatdown time as they do not disrupt until under 1000hp), and one minute more if scrolls are needed for lighting/extinguishing.

    Fleshmakers generally takes 12-15 min leading a PUG as most PUGs are deadweight against the golems, plus there are ALWAYS deaths on the elite traps. Channel groups take ~8 min, and they still tend to have issues with the air elemental switches taking multiple tries to get (unless someone charms ALL the air elementals).

    Of course, as a puzzle quest, Inferno takes a long time if you need to figure it out, similar to Crucible or Sane Asylum. Puzzle quests are extremely difficult to set XP for.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  7. #67
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    As always I am cautiously optimistic. I am looking forward to hearing Lam reports.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    I’m only nerfing you now so I can buff you later.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by karatemack View Post
    Also... put shears back in as WAI just the way they were before. People love leveling multiple destinies at once. Since many will TR and only retain XP in ONE destiny per Epic Life it is not as impactful as it used to be. Also... you do like money right? Think of all the shears you would sell...
    Your info is outdated. TRing will not lose any destiny xp at all.

  9. #69
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Suggestion 3: Up the XP award from raids significantly, both the hard ones and also the easy ones.

    DDO is a social experience, and raids are as social as you can get. More people running at-level Shrouds, VODs, Tempest Spines, Twilight Forges and so on can only be a good thing.

    For the raids that are part 1 of a two part raid (Twilight Forge, VON5) - give the big XP boost to part 2 not part 1.
    /signed. Get more people raiding earlier. Make Chronoscope THE killer XP for level 8 characters. VoN5 is good, but VoN6 needs love. Tempest Spine could use a boost. Twilight Forge is good XP, but Titan needs a huge boost (and maybe some gear rework, but that's a separate topic).

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Suggestion 2: Pick some quests that aren't run much now but that you want to showcase, and give them VON3 levels of XP.
    Nice idea, too.

    Heh...how much Coyle hate would we see if Hold For Reinforcements had XP/minute equal to a good VoN3 zerg?

  10. #70
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    • 16 dungeons are receiving an XP increase. They were chosen for similar reasons – that their base XP was too low compared to other dungeons of the same difficulty, standard play length, and CR. Not coincidentally, we’ve also received a lot of feedback from the players about many of these dungeons too. They cross a broad variety of content packs. Some are in the teen-levels like Cannith, Droaam & Xoriat. Others are in lower CRs like Carnival and Sentinels. This is only a first-phase list. We are considering other dungeons we’re looking at for a post-U20 second phase XP increase.
    o Acute Delirium
    o Bargain of Blood
    o Bastion of Power
    o Blown to Bits
    o Partycrashers
    o Power Play
    o Schemes of the Enemy
    o Spies in the House
    o Storm the Beaches
    o The Black Loch
    o The Lord of Eyes
    o The Lord of Stone
    o The Tide Turns
    o The Weapons Shipment
    o Undermine
    o Wrath of the Flame
    Some of those are pretty obvious candidates. But some of them...I have no idea why they're on there. And why other far worse XP quests are not.

  11. #71
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Vol is surprising to me as well, and a bit sad.

    Ah well.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  12. #72
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    suggest adjusting quest xp or adding more quests in that range.
    doesn't do much good to add more quests at any level if the XP is worse off then the XP of the existing quests.

    will update 20 looming I still find myself doing most of my TR work in quests pre-update 10.

    sure there are a few exceptions that I might one and done but, not much I'm really going to farm.

    as long as farming is more efficient than one and done that's where I will be.
    Last edited by Tanngiostr; 10-08-2013 at 07:56 PM.

  13. #73
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    • 16 dungeons are receiving an XP increase. They were chosen for similar reasons – that their base XP was too low compared to other dungeons of the same difficulty, standard play length, and CR. Not coincidentally, we’ve also received a lot of feedback from the players about many of these dungeons too. They cross a broad variety of content packs. Some are in the teen-levels like Cannith, Droaam & Xoriat. Others are in lower CRs like Carnival and Sentinels. This is only a first-phase list. We are considering other dungeons we’re looking at for a post-U20 second phase XP increase.
    How the heck Druids Deep set wasn't hit in this first pass I have no clue.

    It is a great quest set for iconics and OTTO box users to hit, but the heroic XP is so freaking pathetic, I don't know anyone who runs it ever.

  14. #74
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Dreams of Insanity is possible to do extremely quickly, but only in a great group. It's similar to A New Invasion in that regard - 2000 XP a minute in a top-10% group, 500 XP a minute for most others. (Dreams is a lot faster on lower difficulties too, where most players can split up).

    Sins of Attrition is over 1000 XP a minute on any character with high standing DR and AOE damage. Pale Masters in particular. I soloed it (on a melee-specced cleric with anemic Bladebarriers that did most damage in melee) on elite in ~18 min last life, with the option of doing normal runs afterward in 9-11 min.

    Agree with the others. The Enemy Within is OK on a first bravery run in a group with two casters, but nothing special.
    I agree with you on that. Probably 5 mins of that half hour was waiting out neg levels from shamefully not having any restoration scrolls on a fvs. I guess it's a matter of whether they are balancing quests to the average player, the uberleet player, or the newest player, also.

    My problem with Sins is not caster performance, but melee performance. I don't think that players should ever be outright punished for their choice of class, and I think Sins is one of the few quests that can feel that way.
    Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas


  15. #75
    Community Member Leclaire1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirun View Post
    Hold For Reinforcements.

    Seriously.
    /Signed.

    It seems this quest has quite the petition. This is because it is long, extremely challenging, has an auto-fail which is easy to trigger, AND gives some of the crappiest xp, favor, and loot in the game. The problem was never the quest itself- it is an awesome challenge for a well-prepared party. Coyl'es annoyingness only gives it more authentic d&d flair. The problem is there is NO benefit to running it other than getting mantle the first time. I routinely one and done this on casual once I am too high to break streak on a first life, and then leave this chain behind because this sucks so bad. On the other hand, if it gave SIGNIFICANT xp, I would run it often. It is a great chain, and good players who can do this quest well deserve to be rewarded.

  16. #76
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    And talking about Pass 2 nerfs that we might see, I want to put a preemptive opinion before it happens.

    The major benefit from Shadow Crypt, Wiz-king and VoN 3 XP zergs is NOT the base quest XP. Is how the optionals can easily double/triple the already great base XP, and all optionals are in the main path, or two steps away. If those optionals were out of hand, it would not be such great XP runs. Would still be good, just not great.

    The base XP for those quests are actually good for all the trouble a first time player would take to complete them. Shadow Crypt is confusing as hell if you don't use the wiki paths, Wiz-King is random enough that you don't know if your zerg will be fast enough, unless you play with two friends and split up. Von 3 final fights are brutal. The 3-bosses battle is almost a guaranteed wipe on the first time you run the quest (and if you fight in the boss rom, you might be "just away enough" to not be able to hit the rez shrine), and Marut hit like a truck, while having a non-standard DR that many characters might not bypass unless they aready knew about their DR beforehand, and on top of that, Fast Healing.

    Reduce the optionals worth of XP, and those quests drop from "best XP/min in game" to reasonable levels again.
    Last edited by nibel; 10-08-2013 at 08:04 PM.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  17. #77
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    doesn't do much good to add more quests at any level if the XP is worse off then the XP of the existing quests.

    will update 20 looming I still find myself doing most of my TR work in quests pre-update 10.

    sure there are a few exceptions that I might one and done but, not much I'm really going to farm.

    as long as farming is more efficient than one and done that's where I will be.
    with more quests for that range instead of adjusting the xp in the other quests it would do more good since quest xp adjustments is what they are looking at right now. more quests to run gives more options and even a low xp quest can be decent 1x through with BB and xp boosts.

    90% of my TR leveling is Eberron side. I only have 1 character that has a key and she is done with her past lives. I don't want to burden a group having to log in and out to run mediocre level 15 Eveningstar quests when ive always done fine in Eberron anyways.

    probably 85% of the heroic quests I 1 and done. time has no bearing on my leveling, I don't want to bore myself with running the same quests 10x each life, usually get about ~3k favor by 20 and there is enough xp in the game to not have to really start farming until level 15ish.

    farming is only more efficient to the xp/min crowd that feel the need to hurry back to 20. I really hope the devs don't adjust xp in quests to this kind of crowd. they always find ways to speed run any quest and able to shave off time regardless of what kind of quest set up it is.

  18. #78
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Regarding nerfing vol

    We should never have asked the dev's to adjust things, we all know it will be nerfed to the ground and it won't be the only one. I started taking at the very least a break from the game today, because of frustration from the lack of endgame and the added annoyance features that you can pay to get around with xp pots etc they've been adding in. Seeing what they think needs to be adjusted makes me sick. Yes some of the things that they buffed needed it but the ones they're nerfing. Well I can't say what I really think of Turbine on this forum with that.

  19. #79
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Again devs show that they are disconnected from the game and what players want.
    Like many other people I dont understand why nerf vol, also not putting hold for reinforcements on quests that will get xp raised is stupid, that quest needs to be at least 5k base.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    My list of quests that i really love running but often skip because they're too long to reasonably solo or even group:


    • Hiding in Plain Sight (Can't remember the last time I ran this, and that end fight alone is worth more xp)
    • The Enemy Within (I've never finished this quest with ship buffs, even in a full group. And it's paltry xp)
    • Dreams of Insanity (I soloed this last life, took me a half hour and i only got 500 xp/min outta it)
    • Ataraxia (My first TR I only had this and Threnal to get me from 9-13. Please don't make F2P suffer anymore, It was traumatizing)
    • Threnal (I literally have not run this in a couple of years. It's a fun quest chain but worthless xp)
    • Sins of Attrition (on non-casters, this is a brutal quest with exceedingly poor xp/min)
    • Acid Wit (If at all possible, just make the final optional more Weapons Shipment-y and make it worth as much XP as the quest)
    Dreams of Insanity in a group can be done in 10 min on elite at lvl, with people splitting.
    The Enemy Within takes about 20-30 min, its great xp.

  20. #80
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    90% of my TR leveling is Eberron side. I only have 1 character that has a key and she is done with her past lives. I don't want to burden a group having to log in and out to run mediocre level 15 Eveningstar quests when ive always done fine in Eberron anyways.
    I welcome the heroic expansion into Faerun as I love exploring all the content. That being said, there's only 1 quest I find worth running for xp: Shadow of a Doubt. In addition to the burden of travel to EvS, the poor XP for heroic Faerun is a turn-off. Because I like to run a lot of content, I often will run many of the EvS stuff, but almost always have to solo it. Players either can't get there or don't want to bother with the poor XP. Furthermore, as a many-time TR player, I keep an elite streak going. The Storm Horns are especially bad for this. On Elite they are lvl 21 quests. A LOT more XP can be pulled from running epics than running lvl 21 heroics (applies to Amrath as well). This life, Cilon is running (solo) heroic Storm Horns for my personal 1st time experience, and for the arc and two saga completions. I am very unlikely to ever run the heroic series again.
    Cilon can be found on Orien.

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