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Thread: This Exploit

  1. #141
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Money is just another name for the oldest religion in the world...power
    True.

    Ok too much derailment already .
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 10-10-2013 at 04:01 PM.

  2. #142
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    yup
    Sure youre not just saying that to get it in bed?
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  3. #143
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    There is a difference between doing wrong and justifying doing so. Personally, I've likely done all the things you mention, but I know I shouldn't have and don't try to make excuses for, or justify, doing so.
    Exactly

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    10 people enter a competition 9 cheat the one that doesn't finishes last. That last one is a fool and lost the competition because of it.
    He would only be a fool if he let it bother him.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Personally I can't think of a situation where the loser gains anything. If you can I'm all ears.
    Personally I don't see how anyone gains anything in that situation.

  6. #146
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    I will insist that people stop using twists in heroic when Turbine fixes ladder hitching and zoning crashes, deal?

  7. #147
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Personally I don't see how anyone gains anything in that situation.
    Barry Bonds would like to have you look at his money for a while.

  8. #148
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    To get this thread close to the rails again I'd like to say what many and myself have already said about this "exploit".

    n-th TR-s have invested a lot of time in their character. Compared to first-lifers, they are a lot stronger, usually very well built with great equipment from level 1. Getting twists on heroics is a _very_ mild addition to what they can already do.

    Running solo through elite korthos quests (8 quests + misery) takes roughly 40-45 minutes. The difference between twists and no-twists is perhaps 2-3 minutes. Most of the time is spent on running from start to finish of the quest. Same goes for every other quest out there.

    EDIT: Typo
    Last edited by Grynberg; 10-11-2013 at 02:34 AM.
    Player of Garach - 48 TR, 13 IR, 21 ER

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    To get this thread close to the rails again I'd like to say what many and myself have already said about this "exploit".

    n-th TR-s have invested a lot of time in their character. Compared to first-lifers, they are a lot stronger, usually very well built with great equipment from level 1. Getting twists on heroics is a _very_ mild addition to what they can already do.

    Running solo through elite korthos quests (8 quests + misery) takes roughly 40-45 minutes. The difference between twists and no-twists is perhaps 2-3 minutes. Most of the time is spent on running from start to finish of the quest. Same goes for every other quest out there.

    EDIT: Typo
    Exactly. So why cheat in the first place, when in the end it really doesn't save you THAT much time or effort? All it does is destroy your ability to say you earned your past lives with your own time/money/effort/risk. If this game is such a pain for you that you have to resort to cheating (or whatever you want to call it; it's not WAI in any case) to stomach it, then why are you playing it in the first place? Certainly not for the sense of accomplishment, and certainly not for the sense of fun if you think the game is that painful to play.

    Now, I may not understand ED exploiters for the above reasons, but all this would be fine if this were a single-player game. There's nothing wrong with indulging in a little "god mode" on your own from time to time. The problem is when you use this "god mode" while grouping with other people. Suddenly you've destroyed their ability to say they earned their past lives, too. You've also lowered their ability to contribute to the group by having an unfair/unintended advantage. And you've lowered the challenge of the quest/raid by using level 20+ abilities on a low-level quest; and that means you've sapped away some of the fun.

    Be a man. Suffer through though those terrible 2-3 minutes and that extra 5% chance of failure and EARN your past lives so your group members can earn theirs.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazooka99 View Post
    EARN your past lives so your group members can earn theirs.
    Daily Dice XP Stones, XP Pots and Otto's Stones asked me to say hi for them.

  11. #151
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazooka99 View Post
    Exactly. So why cheat in the first place, when in the end it really doesn't save you THAT much time or effort?
    / -- /
    Be a man. Suffer through though those terrible 2-3 minutes and that extra 5% chance of failure and EARN your past lives so your group members can earn theirs.
    After all what's said - no.

    TR-ing is a long process and anything that reduces it is a welcome thing. Even if it's a 5% decrease in time.
    The point I was trying to make is that a lot of people seem to think that twisting on heroics wipes all your problems away (there are none to begin with). It's a minor convenience that I'm happy to use.

    If you have a problem with someone who uses twists on heroics then you have a problem with TR-s in general - they are the pinnacle of using things from higher levels.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by bazooka99 View Post
    All it does is destroy your ability to say you earned your past lives with your own time/money/effort/risk. If this game is such a pain for you that you have to resort to cheating (or whatever you want to call it; it's not WAI in any case) to stomach it, then why are you playing it in the first place? Certainly not for the sense of accomplishment, and certainly not for the sense of fun if you think the game is that painful to play
    I'm playing the game because I like it. There are some aspects that might need a tweak but with all of it's bugs and annoyances, it's still very fun.

    It's still my money/time/effort/risk and nothing is going to take that away. You care too much what other people think of you.
    Last edited by Grynberg; 10-11-2013 at 05:00 AM.
    Player of Garach - 48 TR, 13 IR, 21 ER

  12. #152
    Community Member unholy1's Avatar
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    Default awww...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandall View Post
    I am about 2 weeks out of my 2nd completionist so keeping up is not an issue. What is an issue is that a 2nd life toon is using an exploit and an inferior class and build and is keeping up...due to the use of an exploit...and to those that say it is WAI pls provide proof...a link to a dev post should suffice
    so the "REAL" issue you have is one of ego... you just cant handle " an inferior class and build" keeping up ... lol relax man .. its a game ... not the rat race - that guy isn't stealing your job molesting your children or abusing your wife... hahaha
    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Now that I explained that, this thread is less interesting, please continue talking about ghostbane instead.
    R.I.P. HOUSE THURANNI -APATHETIC ASSASSIN- BARRONESSXAMOT--FRIA-Palewind Master-DISEMBOWEL-GAATH THE EMPTY--VAPORTRAIL OMEGAALPHA

  13. #153
    Community Member unholy1's Avatar
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    Default hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesrali View Post
    Anyway, I'm not so much a cheater as we have some jealous people who need to level their EDs.
    If you want to gimp yourself, start a fresh account and play F2P for a week. It's a lot of fun I promise!

    (Cocoons his monk and keeps on rolling.)

    ----

    Can someone link the dev saying its a bug? Am having troubles finding it...
    start a fresh account and f2w for a week? dont you mean two? lol at least you'll get some school work done now ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Now that I explained that, this thread is less interesting, please continue talking about ghostbane instead.
    R.I.P. HOUSE THURANNI -APATHETIC ASSASSIN- BARRONESSXAMOT--FRIA-Palewind Master-DISEMBOWEL-GAATH THE EMPTY--VAPORTRAIL OMEGAALPHA

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Daily Dice XP Stones, XP Pots and Otto's Stones asked me to say hi for them.
    Tell them hi back . Actually, I think people who pay for those earn their past lives just as much as the person who actually spends time on them. Some people have busy lives and can't afford the time to level a character from 1 to 20 multiple times, but they make a lot of money (through time) and they can afford to spend that instead. It's like paying someone to do work that you might have done yourself. It's explicitly allowed within the rules of the game, and I see nothing wrong with that.

    Further, none of the above things affect any of the people you group with, because you're using at-level abilities in an at-level group. People who use twists deny their party members the ability to enjoy the leveling experience the way it was meant to be played, and they deny them the ability to say they earned their past lives (see the sentence you quoted).

    As a player, I don't care how you got to where you are. You could have used an Otto's stone, veteran status 7, and had 50% XP potions running nonstop. You could have EE gear and +11 lootgen items slotted with a Globe of True Imperial Blood and level 28 augments, all of which you obtained by buying astral shards from the DDO Store. You could be a triple Otto's Box completionist too, with a full set of store-bought +5 ability and skill tomes. But you're still playing within the rules Turbine has created, and you're using things that anyone could legitimately obtain at that level, given sufficient effort.

    Twists are things that you're not supposed to have at heroic levels; that makes them an exploit, which ruins the gaming experience of those who group with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    TR-ing is a long process and anything that reduces it is a welcome thing. Even if it's a 5% decrease in time.
    The point I was trying to make is that a lot of people seem to think that twisting on heroics wipes all your problems away (there are none to begin with). It's a minor convenience that I'm happy to use.
    And it's precisely because it's a minor convenience that you should be fine without it (see above post). For that 5% decrease in time, you can no longer say that you earned your past lives legitimately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    If you have a problem with someone who uses twists on heroics then you have a problem with TR-s in general - they are the pinnacle of using things from higher levels.
    Not so. I have a 3rd life TR who has enjoyed the benefits of 2 past lives while leveling, 4 greensteel items, upgraded ioun stones, and fully capped ED's at level 20, for that matter. All those things are legitimate benefits allowed within the rules of the game. Heroic twists are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    I'm playing the game because I like it. There are some aspects that might need a tweak but with all of it's bugs and annoyances, it's still very fun.
    "I like it" isn't a reason - not a meaningful one at least. You say this game is "fun". I assume you mean epic levels then, seeing as you're in such a rush to finish heroic levels? Just trying to get some perspective here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    It's still my money/time/effort/risk and nothing is going to take that away.
    Well, it was. And using an exploit that you should have been able to do without took that away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    You care too much what other people think of you.
    I love it. When someone has lost an argument, one of the first things they often do is resort to ungrounded personal attacks. This has absolutely nothing to do with my original post, and only demonstrates an inability on your part to face the argument I have presented.
    Last edited by bazooka99; 10-11-2013 at 11:14 AM.

  15. #155
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Justification based on low impact doesnt fly, because the impact will be ramped up and when it does cross the line the exploiters will simply use the same blanket excuse to keep doing it. Better to nip it in the bud while the impact is low to avoid it getting out of hand.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #156
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazooka99 View Post
    I love it. When someone has lost an argument, one of the first things they often do is resort to ungrounded personal attacks. This has absolutely nothing to do with my original post, and only demonstrates an inability on your part to face the argument I have presented.
    This is sig worthy right here.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #157
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazooka99 View Post
    I love it. When someone has lost an argument, one of the first things they often do is resort to ungrounded personal attacks. This has absolutely nothing to do with my original post, and only demonstrates an inability on your part to face the argument I have presented.
    Ok you won.
    Player of Garach - 48 TR, 13 IR, 21 ER

  18. #158
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    People seem to forget that Turbine did not come out and ANNOUNCE that this was bugged.

    People started using it with NO knowledge that it might not be WAI.

    It was left this way for a very long time, then SOME PEOPLE started to complain so Turbine was FORCED to make a call.

    The fact that they chose to simply leave it alone and make ONE forum post that it is not WAI shows how seriously they take it.

    That is to say, not at all seriously.

    By saying ONCE that it isn't WAI, in a reply, not a new thread, and not putting up a launcher message, world message, PLUS not disabling the feature or handing out ANY punishment is the same as them saying it is WAI.

    Plenty of players NEVER read the forums. How are they to know it isn't WAI? Take your word for it?

    Plus, the dev comment that it is not WAI was fairly vague at best, as it never really states HOW it isn't WAI.

    For all we know, the dev was being snarky, and the twists being used in heroics was supposed to be a benefit, but people kept complaining and yelling "SPLOITS", so it obviously didn't work as intended.

    Turbine track record is VERY consistent: bugs that give players an advantage are IMMEDIATELY squashed, time and again (exception being the recent dupings, they had to wait until it stopped making them money).

    They never even described it as a bug, so therefore it CANNOT be exploiting, by their definition.

    TL;DR:
    It's not exploiting if it's allowed, and not a bug, WAI or not.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Justification based on low impact doesnt fly, because the impact will be ramped up and when it does cross the line the exploiters will simply use the same blanket excuse to keep doing it. Better to nip it in the bud while the impact is low to avoid it getting out of hand.
    Ever hear the phrase "That ship has sailed"? Yeah that literally happened after the mayban event, certainly happened again with all the exploiting of the shroud that was done back in the old days, or how about when the challenge chestploit happened, not to mention the other 3 times we had the bag duping pop up in DDO. The simple fact is you cant raise a child on negligence, then start beating them as teenagers and expect anything but hate and spite for it and an utter lack of respect for any so called authority.

    The time for nipping anything in the bud is long past in DDO. It is what it is, and thinking you can turn the sin city of MMOs into a holier then thou land is well past plaid and straight into platypus

  20. #160
    The Hatchery Nédime's Avatar
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    (skip to last page)

    While I agree that it can be very powerful (cocoon means infinite life if you have like 200 sp or more, Wildshot means infinite ammunition, with no save ...), I still think that it is not ridiculous to get some benefits from our ED's after TRing.
    Passive past life represents the memories we got from our last life. Active Past life emphazizes it. Twist could be the same.

    When you grinded epic XP it's not like you stole it from someone or duped : you did it. You ran the quests repeatedly, you bought epic xp tomes and xp pots from the store. There is no reason why you couldn't get some benefit from that 'work'.

    Of course there could be some kinda nerf like, maybe only 1 Tier 1 twist or anything else but the concept is not ridiculous imo.
    Aezechiel (Caster, 8th life) - Kakophonyc (Bard, 2nd life) - Larsenkarden (Cleric, 3rd life) - Lewela (Bard, 6th life) - Punkcanard (dual deathnip centered halfling tempest 3rd life) - Usuldur (Melee, completionist) - Sylentbob (ranger) ... and a couple of mules


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