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Thread: This Exploit

  1. #81
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Sucks for you . I wouldn't say that people using the twists that I can see are in the majority of the players ive run across lately, during this TR, I do see it time to time, its more on the 1/2 to 1/3 of the pugs ive run across. Ive yet to see someone complain or ask the others not to use them yet. But thats only my *limited* experience so far.

    Would it bother you if some guy was going to die, but he hit cocoon to save the -10%, where do you personally draw the line?
    ive never cared about the -10% xp. it happens in good groups and it even happens to me once or twice per life. i didn't care back when we had half as many stacking xp boosts. i expect to see EDs used in every group i join. i have had cocoon used on me many times along with primal scream and watched mobs i had been beating on die almost instantly by these twists. the only way to be sure to avoid it is solo everything which i don't want to resort doing. i pretty much solo most of the quests up to level 13ish when i really start grouping and normally i like to pug. i have more fun using group tactics with what the game has to offer than watching people find ways to exploit and shortcut quests. i know its a hard concept for some people to understand when time is more important to people than playing for fun, but i like to feel challenged. that is what i find fun, not pushing easy buttons throughout the game and having to be involved in it.

    i wouldn't say it actually happens a lot with griefing in groups who use EDs, but i have experienced it. i used to complain in groups and asked nicely, but its everywhere so i either put up with it, add to why there are less lfms or people wanting to group or i don't play anymore. i would rather keep playing and hoping this latest exploit will get their wheels rolling into fixing the EDs in heroics. bugs this bad that make its way into the game and go on as long as they do don't put much faith in the company.

  2. #82
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSomeQuestions View Post
    Right, and in heroic levels those melees are kind of terrible. If these twists make melees almost as good as casters, then the best groups don't improve at all, but the worst groups improve a lot. Making players better without raising the bar for what good players can do seems like a good outcome, no? The only people completing quests faster are the ones who chose to play otherwise slow/suboptimal characters.

    In other words, it's refreshing not to hear players complain for caster nerfs.

    Also, half the epic summons are worse than the Crystal Cove air elemental gems, and no one ever seemed to mind when I used those.
    sounds like you have a problem with the gap between caster and melee power. EDs are not the bridge to be using. there are other threads that discuss this kind of thing that ask the devs for improvements.

    i will agree that some melees aren't that great in heroics. i can say the exact same thing about casters too. what it boils down to is the player more than the class.

  3. #83
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    sounds like you have a problem with the gap between caster and melee power. EDs are not the bridge to be using. there are other threads that discuss this kind of thing that ask the devs for improvements.

    i will agree that some melees aren't that great in heroics. i can say the exact same thing about casters too. what it boils down to is the player more than the class.
    Given equal player skill a caster is 100x as powerful as a melee in heroic content.

  4. #84
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Given equal player skill a caster is 100x as powerful as a melee in heroic content.
    Then we need better casters.

    My monk things are still doing most of the work. (Aside from Acid Wit. Damn those acid elementals and their anti-stun stuff.)

  5. #85
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandall View Post
    No, not the rumored Duping. I really hope the Devs are looking into correcting and taking action against people that are using the exploit that allows TRed toons to use Epic Destiny powers at level 1-20. I have run into a number of people using this exploit...it is cheating, no less and should be handled swiftly. I know a lot of people (cheaters) get really defensive about their using this cheat. I know it doesn't have the destabilizing impact of Duping, but this should be addressed even if it is only a 24 hour ban...something should be done to these cheaters...and please fix the exploit
    I'm not sure what is the problem here.
    If you are a 5th life TR and not a utter failure in making character builds you're so powerful that whatever the ED-s can give pale in comparison.

    The epic destinies (especially primal and other damage bursts) are only OP on levels 1-6 and lets face it - those quests are a pushover on TR-s anyway. From level 7 you're already carrying heavy fort, +5 stat items, gfl, your HP is a solid 200+ and you're doing 50+ damage per hit.

    If you think that it's the epic destinies that really break the game for TR-s then you are way off course. Most of my TR-ing revolves around 'how can i run through that quest even faster' and I'm tempted to grab barbarian/ranger levels to get a speed boost.

    The only exception might be cocoon. Then again getting 30+ UMD from level 11 shouldn't really be that much of a problem for a 5+ TR. 80% heal scrolls will do the trick even if you're a barbarian.
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  6. #86
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golruul View Post
    This is why I don't post LFMs anymore unless the quest absolutely needs 2+ people to pull levers or stand on pressure plates. On my first life character, the last LFM I posted was for the first necro chain on elite and with bravery bonus (so levels 5-7). I forgot to add "no epic abilities" because I'm used to just throwing the LFM up with "elite. bb". I accepted the first five people that applied. Soon into the first quest I saw primal screams, living meteor swarms, cocoons, and some other stuff I wasn't familiar with. I didn't say anything because I consider it my fault for forgetting to put "no epic destiny abilities" in the LFM.

    The whole chain was completed and with absolutely no risk or challenge involved. This was also one of the most boring times I had playing this game and I logged off afterwards. Absolutely no risk and no challenge means the game is just a pure xp grind, which isn't fun to me. I don't play just to grind and blaze past the current life using the most efficient xp/min formulas -- I enjoy playing varied quests and having some challenge. The spam of epic destiny abilities at level 7 completely ruined the experience for me. I would have rather had a group of 1-2 gimps or new players, 1-2 average players, and 1-2 good players.

    Other LFMs I posted that had the "no epic destiny abilities" attached had about one person per two groups who would still use but would try in a more discreet way. Sometimes it was still obvious, though. One was a pure sword-and-shield bard with an Elyd Edge that zerged (away from the main group) until he picked up yellow alert. Then his marker stops moving on the mini-map and suddenly no more dungeon alert -- so all of the monsters suddenly die around him with none to very little spell points used on his part.

    So, my options are
    1) Have a really dull and boring grind when I get a party full of TRs that spam epic destiny abilities
    2) Yell at and fight with people that use epic destiny abilities in my LFMs when I explicitly listed against that
    3) Solo and have a more challenging, fun experience

    Back to solo for me.

    The real kicker is that this is the first time I rolled a cleric and am actually willing to heal people.
    What server are you on I think I could have fun running with ya

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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesrali View Post
    I play only caster lives and I can get ~350-700 damage out of lots of abilities past lvl 6. I don't bother with melee because they don't have aoes which enable zerging---and I have no idea how to play them. =p

    AND, I could have this on any first life character.

    But energy burst. . .
    It takes 11 fate points to twist. That's 33 levels into your EDs (e.x., Tier 3 in each class). Giving veteran's access to this in heroics is not OP---its a testament to how much they've played. I have seen it on 4-5 players in my past 6 months of heroic play.

    Primal scream takes 3, and is comparable until about lvl 9. I have seen it on 20+ players. But what's so bad about it? I'm still going to carry the party through Shadow King.

    Players who haven't worked up their fate points yell OP OP---I'm gonna call jealousy haha. It's the same reason my caster builds are called "exploits" Jealousy folks---
    Cheating is cheating and twisters should banned right along side the dupers.

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  8. #88
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    To me that's one of the starting points of a good player.


    Cheaters aren't good players they are just cheaters!

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  9. #89
    Community Member Chaoscheerio's Avatar
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    I feel like a lott of the people complaining in this thread are running in too many BYOH groups just to complain about it. Don't wanna see these abilities? Don't run with TRs or form a static group. Make your own groups and set the rules.
    I've known about these ever since I got EDs and started on competionist. I use them sure, but I always find they're just icing on the cake. My artificer life got most of its power from things readily available to ANY artificer... The EDs either added a tiny bit of power or helped keep my dog alive and god knows he needed it. My ranger life wasn't able to use the twists due to needing to feat swap and guess what? That life was just as easy to cap because of my player skill, gear, and build. Nothing not available to any other TR.
    Those three things make someone good. Twists are a crutch to a bad player and a relaxing benefit to a good one.

    As a player who's on her way to completionist I make a lot of BYOH groups and anything that keeps people alive and not detracting XP is a good thing. They're TRs... They worked for it. Heroic levels get boring and twists speed them up, which I'm a fan of. As I always say... If you don't like the way I run don't join my groups. I feel the same way about this issue.

    I'm fine with twists because they make my style of play easier and therefore more fun. I can understand if some people don't like them and while I don't think they should be removed; as many TRs and experienced players will say it won't kill me if they are removed.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Sucks for you . I wouldn't say that people using the twists that I can see are in the majority of the players ive run across lately, during this TR, I do see it time to time, its more on the 1/2 to 1/3 of the pugs ive run across. Ive yet to see someone complain or ask the others not to use them yet. But thats only my *limited* experience so far.

    Would it bother you if some guy was going to die, but he hit cocoon to save the -10%, where do you personally draw the line?
    I would rather get a 99% penalty then to have the cheating scum bag not die.

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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoscheerio View Post
    I feel like a lott of the people complaining in this thread are running in too many BYOH groups just to complain about it. Don't wanna see these abilities? Don't run with TRs or form a static group. Make your own groups and set the rules.
    I've known about these ever since I got EDs and started on competionist. I use them sure, but I always find they're just icing on the cake. My artificer life got most of its power from things readily available to ANY artificer... The EDs either added a tiny bit of power or helped keep my dog alive and god knows he needed it. My ranger life wasn't able to use the twists due to needing to feat swap and guess what? That life was just as easy to cap because of my player skill, gear, and build. Nothing not available to any other TR.
    Those three things make someone good. Twists are a crutch to a bad player and a relaxing benefit to a good one.

    As a player who's on her way to completionist I make a lot of BYOH groups and anything that keeps people alive and not detracting XP is a good thing. They're TRs... They worked for it. Heroic levels get boring and twists speed them up, which I'm a fan of. As I always say... If you don't like the way I run don't join my groups. I feel the same way about this issue.

    I'm fine with twists because they make my style of play easier and therefore more fun. I can understand if some people don't like them and while I don't think they should be removed; as many TRs and experienced players will say it won't kill me if they are removed.
    Well said, maybe it is time this bug became WAI.
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  12. #92
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I would rather get a 99% penalty then to have the cheating scum bag not die.
    Nice to try to have a reasoning conversation with you. Nevermind burn the witch right? The only thing that makes this an exploit is turbine saying it's not wai. They could go the other way and have no ill effect on the game, and I'd say a net positive effect actually. So far all you've added is the unreasoning slobber of a fanatic.

  13. #93
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Then we need better casters.

    My monk things are still doing most of the work. (Aside from Acid Wit. Damn those acid elementals and their anti-stun stuff.)
    Most good casters are shortmanning with guildies/channel or soloing. So you'll basically never see a good caster in a pug.

  14. #94
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Most good casters are shortmanning with guildies/channel or soloing. So you'll basically never see a good caster in a pug.
    I don't disagree - most good players do the same.

    I only consider myself decent - at best.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Nice to try to have a reasoning conversation with you. Nevermind burn the witch right? The only thing that makes this an exploit is turbine saying it's not wai. They could go the other way and have no ill effect on the game, and I'd say a net positive effect actually. So far all you've added is the unreasoning slobber of a fanatic.
    No if it was WAI I would quit then to the only people defending this are the ones who want to use it and its not a positive effect its cheaiting and irrates the hell out of me I would some compairisons to other things but I dont want to be banned yet. This is as bad as the duping

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  16. #96
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    No if it was WAI I would quit then to the only people defending this are the ones who want to use it and its not a positive effect its cheaiting and irrates the hell out of me I would some compairisons to other things but I dont want to be banned yet. This is as bad as the duping
    I don't use it and I defend it.

    If casters are nerfed, I'm cool with twists being removed.

  17. #97
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    I wont report anyone doing this since there is no point but from now on I am droping out of any group that does it as soon as they do it.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Given equal player skill a caster is 100x as powerful as a melee in heroic content.
    Also, given equal skill someone who runs clusters of mobs from shrine to shrine and spams primal scream in heroic content renders at least everything >14 pretty much moot.

    "Well done" whoever figured out the exploit/trick/whatever you want to call it, but I'm not fond of putting time into thinking about a levellable character build for my TRs when I'll just end up pugging with people who run like this. Usually I run heroic content with a full party, because soloing is for offline gaming.

    Regardless, it's all a moot point until we get a definite statement from a dev/GM one way or another, but given how things are playing out with the current 'sploit, I'd rather err on the side of caution.

    Its not like anyone should need primal spam to have fun/complete quests anyway

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I wont report anyone doing this since there is no point but from now on I am droping out of any group that does it as soon as they do it.
    Do you plan on typing anything before you drop group? So the people know why you dropped group, or so they might know why you dropped.
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  20. #100
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretchicus View Post
    Also, given equal skill someone who runs clusters of mobs from shrine to shrine and spams primal scream in heroic content renders at least everything >14 pretty much moot.
    1) More accurately, it's from level 10-14. Anything below that will die from two cleaves. (3-4 if it has red named.)
    2) That's a caster. They do that from 1-18, then use FoD/Wail for 19-20.

    *Edit* Wow, what happened to high school maths? I'm screwing up that often..

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