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Thread: Meaningful DPS

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    Default Meaningful DPS

    Hey everyone,

    I'm just wondering what would be considered "meaningful dps" at level 28. I'm not talking about highest dps or a pure dps toon. I'm just wondering the "general" area where the averages lie - for Melee toons.

    For this I'm making the assumption that things like Cleave/Great Cleave aren't being included.

    The two categories that I suspect would matter most would be two handed weapons and two weapon fighting. Please note if you're using epic movements.

    Thanks in advance.

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    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Hey everyone,

    I'm just wondering what would be considered "meaningful dps" at level 28. I'm not talking about highest dps or a pure dps toon. I'm just wondering the "general" area where the averages lie - for Melee toons.

    For this I'm making the assumption that things like Cleave/Great Cleave aren't being included.

    The two categories that I suspect would matter most would be two handed weapons and two weapon fighting. Please note if you're using epic movements.

    Thanks in advance.
    difficult to say, since today dps isn't the only thing you have to pay attentino on. saves and self heal are very important too.

    by the way if you want some number:
    - a melee cleric can crit 1k
    - an archer can use slaying arrows+manyshot+fury for 15k damage easy every 2 minuts
    - casters have energy burst for 2500-5000 aoe every 30 seconds
    - monks and blitzers take down EE trash in a couple of seconds with over 5k critics

    I would say to call dps you need to do 500 dps at least at 28 cap
    Last edited by korsat; 10-08-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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    Mhmm, I'm looking at a Fighter build that rolls out an average dps of 2250 before skills, before Blitz.

    Crits are fantastic and all but I know that I can reach crazy high 19-20 crits with Fury activated. However, I'm looking more for the norm than for the extremes.

    If 2250 as an average before getting into epic movements then that's alright with me

    After all 15k every two minutes is FANTASTIC but as far as dps goes, that's still only 125 damage per second and that energy burst is rolls in at 83 - 166 damage per second :P (Yes yes, I'm being factious on purpose. I'm aware how valuable huge burst is :P)
    Last edited by Xianio; 10-08-2013 at 09:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Mhmm, I'm looking at a Fighter build that rolls out an average dps of 2250 before skills, before Blitz.

    Crits are fantastic and all but I know that I can reach crazy high 19-20 crits with Fury activated. However, I'm looking more for the norm than for the extremes.

    If 2250 as an average before getting into epic movements then that's alright with me

    After all 15k every two minutes is FANTASTIC but as far as dps goes, that's still only 125 damage per second and that energy burst is rolls in at 83 - 166 damage per second :P (Yes yes, I'm being factious on purpose. I'm aware how valuable huge burst is :P)
    Whats the breakdown to get 2250 dps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Whats the breakdown to get 2250 dps.
    Okay, this is a big one so I'll try and keep things as clear as possible:
    PS: This is a WALL of (simple)math, be prepared

    Strength
    +5 - Strength (enhancement, insight)(11)
    +8 - Strength (16 starting + level ups + 5 tome)(11)
    +1 - Strength (remainder of the two odd points)
    +2 - Strength (Kensai + StD bonuses)
    +3 - Strength (StD Stance - competence)
    +4 - Strength (Kensai Power surge - psionic)
    +1 - Strength (Kensai capstone)
    -------------------------------------------
    24 - Strength modifier

    Weapon Damage + Modifiers
    11 - 38 - First Blood (Level 27)
    +10 - Deadly
    +5 - Power Attack
    1 - 6 - Reprisal
    1 - 10 - Battle Meditation stacks
    +3 - Kensai Weapon Group Specialization
    +4 - Fighter Weapon Specialization
    +2 - Draconic Fury (Flawless Black Dragon Armor)
    1 - 10 - Combat Brute (Leg. Dread.)
    1 - 5 - Improved Power Attack (Leg. Dread.)
    1 - 6 - Advancing Blows (Leg. Dread.)
    ------------------------------------------------
    40 - 99 Weapon Damage

    Weapon Damage (Str. + WD)
    64 - 123
    Average damage per swing = 93.5

    Critical Damage (x2 and x4 - Overpowering + Dev)
    WD + 9 kensai & Leg. Dread. + 10 Seeker + Bloodletter (15 - 90 and 15 - 150 added after crit modifer)
    (83 - 142)x2 + (15 - 90) * 0.1 (For 17/18 rolls) = 27.75
    (83 - 142)x4 + (15 - 150) * 0.1 (For 19/20 rolls) = 53.25
    Average damage per swing = 81

    Average Damage Per Swing
    174.5

    Doublestrike
    15% - Kensai (Capstone - unknown type)
    6% - Kensai (Strike with No Thought - unknown type)
    15% - First Blood (Enhancement)
    15% - Improved Shield Mastery + Twisted Unyielding Leg. Shield Mastery (untyped)
    25% - Block and Cut (Morale)
    5% - Epic TWF (unknown type)
    3% - Black Dragon (Artifact)
    ----------------------------
    84% Doublestrike
    Average attacks per sequence x 84% = 7.36
    Average damage per sequence = 1284

    Glancing Blows
    20% - base
    30% - all normal level feats
    10% - Epic Two handed
    9% - Twisted Fury glancing blows enhancement
    -----------
    69% damage with 28% proc chance - 2 occurrences per sequence

    Glancing Blow DPS - This assumes that glancing blows CAN crit
    (174.5 * 69%) * 2 = 240.8
    ***Note: There is an error here as Bloodletter damage won't always apply. This will cause approx. 40-50 additional damage.

    Shield Bash Proc Chance
    20% - Shield Bash
    15% - StD Improved Shield Bash
    20% - Madstone Aegis improved bash (claims to stack with feats)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    55% = 2.2 attacks per sequence

    Shield Bash Damage
    12 - 48 - Madstone Aegis
    +3 - StD insight bonus to shield enhancement
    +24 - Strength (Shields bash gains FULL strength)
    +10 - Deadly (unknown if applies - wording suggests it does)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    47 - 85
    Average damage per hit = 66
    Shield Bash average damage with critical hit(x3) = 75.9

    Average dps = 166.98

    Weapon + Glancing + Shield = Total Average DPS
    1284 + 240.8 + 166.98 = 1691.78

    Final Multipliers - Leg. Dread Damage Boost + Kensai Attack Speed Boost (30% & 30%)
    1691.78 * 1.3 = 2199.31
    2199.31 * 1.3 = 2859.1

    Final DPS = 2859.1
    Final DPS vs Helpless = (30% base + 50% Leg. Dread) * 2859.1 = 5146.39

    Caveats:
    1)Damage Boost wouldn't affect Bloodletter AND bloodletters procs wouldn't fire as often with glancing blows. Thus, in my original quote I estimated a loss of approx 600 dps - that may be too much/too little.
    2) If Kensai doublestrike capstone is tagged as Morale OR Enhancement there will be an enormous loss in DPS. If Strike without Throught is then there will be a small loss in DPS.
    3) 50% of the time 25% doublestrike bonus will be down. This was not taken into account. May adjust numbers later to take this into account.
    4) This does NOT account for party buffs/ship buffs/potion buffs.
    5) Action boost reliance - this build has 13 action boosts per rest + 10 seconds off downtime thus giving them 100% uptime if you choose. Therefore 3 minutes of 100% uptime per rest + 1 extra.
    6) This is NOT using feats. Great Cleave, Lay Waste, Cleave, Volcano's Edge and Momentum Swing could ALL add to this.
    7) In theory, MANY of the damage modifiers could apply to the shield depending on how shield bash is coded. This could result in a large boost in the shields contribution.

    That's the whole thing. It's a monster but that's it does have 3 separate sources of damage per attack sequence making it excessively complicated.

    Final Note: This build is also very tanky with loads of HP, extremely high armor, very high PRR. Unfortunately the saves don't compare to normal tank saves and no evasion/blur or concealment without clickies/on items. (UMD is included in the build)
    Last edited by Xianio; 10-09-2013 at 01:51 AM.

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    DPS?

    You sure ya know what it means? ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    DPS?

    You sure ya know what it means? ^^
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    Solo 5 star 26+ Cavern challenges.
    Kill hard green drake in 2 boosts.
    Solo easy EE like Trial by fire in 15 mins.
    Prepare hard Stormreaver by yourself in 20 seconds ( ).
    Last edited by Encair; 10-09-2013 at 04:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    DPS?

    You sure ya know what it means? ^^
    Damage per second, which is approximately 1 full sequence. How else could you measure it?
    Last edited by Xianio; 10-09-2013 at 07:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Solo 5 star 26+ Cavern challenges.
    Kill hard green drake in 2 boosts.
    Solo easy EE like Trial by fire in 15 mins.
    Prepare hard Stormreaver by yourself in 20 seconds ( ).
    I'm new, I don't have have the luxury of testing on live content. If I did I'd tell you that number. I do find it very very bizarre how little this happens here though.
    Last edited by Xianio; 10-09-2013 at 07:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by korsat View Post
    difficult to say, since today dps isn't the only thing you have to pay attentino on. saves and self heal are very important too.

    by the way if you want some number:
    - a melee cleric can crit 1k
    - an archer can use slaying arrows+manyshot+fury for 15k damage easy every 2 minuts
    - casters have energy burst for 2500-5000 aoe every 30 seconds
    - monks and blitzers take down EE trash in a couple of seconds with over 5k critics

    I would say to call dps you need to do 500 dps at least at 28 cap
    My healbot Cleric crits for 90 :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan220 View Post
    My healbot Cleric crits for 90 :-)
    And healcrits for over 9000!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    I'm new, I don't have have the luxury of testing on live content. If I did I'd tell you that number. I do find it very very bizarre how little this happens here though.
    Calcing DPS in DDO isn't reliable since MoTU hit. The above damage calc for example is clear nonsense.

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    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Damage per second, which is approximately 1 full sequence. How else could you measure it?
    I'm fairly sure the assumption that 1 sequence takes 1 second is flawed. The best place to look for what you need is https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/275144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Calcing DPS in DDO isn't reliable since MoTU hit. The above damage calc for example is clear nonsense.
    Why's that? Now obviously I'm going to take your responses with a grain of salt given your name but where's the flaw?

    As I've said, I'm new so I can't live test this info but given the info I have this SEEMS to be correct.

    Could you point to the area that breaks the cconventions is the dps shockingly high? I got the impression that these numbers were fairly standard for two weapon builds - - which this should mimic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    I'm fairly sure the assumption that 1 sequence takes 1 second is flawed. The best place to look for what you need is https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/275144
    Oh that's great info! I'll make some adjustments after work

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Prepare hard Stormreaver by yourself in 20 seconds ( ).
    My problem isn't preparing the hard SR by myself in 20 seconds. It's doing it without accidentally having him die. I always say to myself, "just one more shot" and invariably get something stupid like 40k damage on the last arrow set of Furyshot after not touching 20k on the other barrages.
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    If you can kill a mob before it kills you, then your DPS is good enough.
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    You sir are cray cray, we had a guy once in a PnP group whom decided to calculate the needed speed to reach space ...turns out he was wrong It came out to like MACH 20 or something crazy like that.

    His calculations were legendary.

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    Eh, it's nothing to crazy. From as near as I can tell it's a basic unit of measure problem. I output the dps where the S stood for sequence when I should have been putting out second.

    At a casual glance, it seems that 2 attack animations is "about" what you get per second instead of the 4 I was using.

    Realistically, that drops the actual dps by "about" 50% as it means 1 glancing blow, 1 shield bash, 2 attacks and 2 opportunities to doublestrike. I'll wait to see exactly how many attacks you get but 50% of the original value is probably a decent estimate.

    This of course would be easy to solve for if anyone ever put up DPS numbers as when mine rolled up as almost double the norm. red flags would have gone off. All told, I'm expecting the adjusted value to be closer to 1400 or so.

    But again, I don't know if that's excessive either as nobody calc's dps on this site.

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