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Thread: Crucible

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkly_dreaming View Post
    I call shenanigans! You will need to log on tonight and prove it Mem. I just HAPPEN to have a level 15 character who can sit at the entrance and verify your story.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Something can be done about it actually, because if the "lowest common denominator" cant be bothered to run the content, they are not entitled to the rewards either. It is that simple. What people have been asking for is the basically the reward without having to meet the requirement. There is an easy way around it - dont run it - but dont also expect the reward for including it in the saga, unless willing to pay to circumvent or be VIP and use the free circumvent one quest mechanic. The path of least resistance folks have a path of least resistance in place.
    I think somewhere up there, I mentioned one alternative solution would be to add new useful loot to Crucible, to make it worthwhile to run.

    As it stands, the only "reward" for the saga, and therefore your reason for running Crucible, is the big chunk of XP. XP is not unique to Crucible, there are alternate ways to get the same amount of XP. If those alternate ways are less hassle than running Crucible for the saga, then the "Lowest Common Denominator" wont run Crucible. It stays as niche content, and you cant do anything to convince those people (ie most people) to run Crucible instead of Tor x3.

    My goal isn't to get a reward with less effort - its to ensure that the content that devs put time and effort into is actually worthwhile to play, to increase the diversity of content being utilized. It does no good for them to put out expansion after expansion, only to see those (like Restless Isles, from what I've heard, or parts of Threnal) go largely abandoned because it becomes sub-optimal a few Updates later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    People have the option to run on normal and not have to worry about the reflex save laden underwater maze. Running on normal doesnt garner elite rewards however, which some feel entitled to. I love those types of quests as well, but when I cant complete elite its not even a second thought to drop to hard or even normal to get the content done if I still want to run it. Just as the optionals are the "extreme challenge" part of the quest - elite should be looked at the same way - optional. Instead people demand elite reward but want all difficulty removed.
    I'd be fine with that, and take the Elite rather than True Elite reward, except it would break my BB streak and incur a sizeable XP penalty on my next 5 first-time runs, if I run it at-level. Otherwise, you're forced to wait until you've already hit L17 before you complete the Saga.

    That's more a problem with the BB system putting too much penalty on a broken streak....if it, say, only decreased your BB streak by one if you broke it, rather than completely reset it, I might consider breaking it for Crucible. But, we have the system we have, and it very heavily pushes you into running Crucible on Elite, at least your first time through the Saga.

  3. #23
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkly_dreaming View Post
    I call shenanigans! You will need to log on tonight and prove it Mem. I just HAPPEN to have a level 15 character who can sit at the entrance and verify your story.
    You just want to pike while I do the swim, don'tcha Z.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    A stop was put to those antics pretty quickly in 2007 when it was decided that 20 of each relic would be needed to flag for TOR once, then we were perma-flagged for reaver after TOR.
    I believe you're mixing up the history.

    VoN5-6, Titan, and DQ all required reflagging after every run of the raid, but were later changed. Reaver, Abbot, and Shroud were all flag once and done. Reaver had the "be blooded by killing the dragons in the Tor", Abbot had "complete your sigil and kill each boss in Litany", and Shroud had the "complete your stone pie and get 40 'The Twelve' favor" then never had to reflag.

    As for the Crucible: I always liked it for the same reason Chai does. It's varied mechanics offered a dynamic quest that was extremely creative and also challenging. Plus, it became a measure of player skill to learn the maze, learn the best path for the trap room, and learn how to navigate the swim on a character without evasion.
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  5. #25
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Is it just me, or does anyone else find it a bit hilarious that the Crucible was removed from Tor flagging because people said it was too hard and didn't want to run it, but now that it's part of the saga in GH, I see lfms for it constantly.
    It's not really funny, more like very sad. They took GH, the great and mighty quest pack. And castrated it.

    Yup. First they cut off the balls by replacing Crucible with one of the easiest sidequests. Then they chopped them off from Tor when they neutered the boss fight and removed the blooding mechanic. :/

  6. #26
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    You just want to pike while I do the swim, don'tcha Z.
    I'd never admit it! But .... maybe ....
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  7. #27
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    It's not really funny, more like very sad. They took GH, the great and mighty quest pack. And castrated it.

    Yup. First they cut off the balls by replacing Crucible with one of the easiest sidequests. Then they chopped them off from Tor when they neutered the boss fight and removed the blooding mechanic. :/
    yeah, the change didn't make the pack better. it actually made it weaker.

  8. #28
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Is it just me, or does anyone else find it a bit hilarious that the Crucible was removed from Tor flagging because people said it was too hard and didn't want to run it, but now that it's part of the saga in GH, I see lfms for it constantly.
    Crucible is one of the BEST QUESTS this game has ever had developed.
    But it was made vanilla-like by how gear & builds have OP'ed it.
    Shame, just another example of how this game has gone downhill.


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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawel_San View Post
    the DC is 40 so a 39 is fail on 1
    38 is the "fail on a 1" benchmark for the DC40 elite crucible traps. Rolling a 1 turns your 38 to 39, which fails, but 1s always fail anyway. Rolling a 2 takes 38 to 40, which saves.

  10. #30
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawel_San View Post
    Please stop propagating this myth. You need neither reflex nor swim for any part of the crucible. Having underwater action of some type makes the swim easier but even that is not a necessity.
    What you do need is to know how the swim is to be completed. And a 32 reflex save will not do all that much for you since the DC is 40 so a 39 is fail on 1 which if you don't know how to do the swim properly will still likely kill you at least
    one out of 3 tries.

    If you want to learn to swim the crucible all you need to do is learn the route and do a couple test runs on casual. Once you're not getting hit by any traps (that is not triggering any of the traps) you just do the same thing on elite and bam you're done.

    Edit: I guess you might need a modicum of swim skill probably 1 or 2 for one bit of the swim. But might not even need that.
    Hmm last time I ran it I am virtually certain I had to make a save on the spinning blades (the 2-3 saves I mentioned) in the water section. As to the 32 .....I will agree that I was going off hearsay for that - I build for higher than that in total but if I am getting that unbuffed before I enter the quest then between GH and unlisted trap saves (monkey stance thing or rogue trap bonuses depending on splash) I am usually over the real mark.

    As for swim - all is needed is a swim item then even a lunk in plate armor can do it.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Rakuda13's Avatar
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    I was more disappointed about how Tor was changed.I liked that the party had to split and had to have somebody stand on a box.Now you just run in and kill the boss,sort of boring.

  12. #32
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    As it stands, the only "reward" for the saga, and therefore your reason for running Crucible, is the big chunk of XP. XP is not unique to Crucible, there are alternate ways to get the same amount of XP.
    How about for fun? I really enjoy running that quest in almost every way, whether as a high speed run with friends and guildies, or a teaching run full of newbies. Or sometimes a little of both.

    It has quite nice xp, but since I don't count xp/min anymore, (somewhere along the way I learned that the toon still raised levels even if I didn't get maximum xp/min) I just run stuff for fun and if it has a lot of xp that's just gravy. Crucible is fun and it gives nice xp, so it's a good one. I'm glad to see the lfms up for it. It used to be a pita to get a group together.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    Hmm last time I ran it I am virtually certain I had to make a save on the spinning blades (the 2-3 saves I mentioned) in the water section. As to the 32 .....I will agree that I was going off hearsay for that - I build for higher than that in total but if I am getting that unbuffed before I enter the quest then between GH and unlisted trap saves (monkey stance thing or rogue trap bonuses depending on splash) I am usually over the real mark.

    As for swim - all is needed is a swim item then even a lunk in plate armor can do it.
    The last spinning blade is the tricky one. The proper way to avoid it is by having a teammate pull the valve that shuts it off. Makes it a lot easier and you don't have to take any damage that way. When I used to learn the swim hitting 38 reflex was quite hard on anything other then a proper rogue at that level (maybe monk). Ofcourse "that level" used to be lvl 14 and below since that was the level of the quest there was no BB and no TR. These days you can afford to hit the spikes at least once on pretty much any character since most people will have 300+ hp at that level. So essentially you can just pot through it pretty much if you don't swim extremely badly.

    As for swim I have to admit I've swum it on fvs, sorc,monk,exploiter, pure wiz (without insightful), barb but never anything that would wear heavy plate so my swim was always Str bonus +voice of master +gh(usually) that left me in the single to low double digits and I've never found it an issue.

    Just my 2 copper,
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawel_San View Post
    The last spinning blade is the tricky one. The proper way to avoid it is by having a teammate pull the valve that shuts it off. Makes it a lot easier and you don't have to take any damage that way. When I used to learn the swim hitting 38 reflex was quite hard on anything other then a proper rogue at that level (maybe monk). Ofcourse "that level" used to be lvl 14 and below since that was the level of the quest there was no BB and no TR. These days you can afford to hit the spikes at least once on pretty much any character since most people will have 300+ hp at that level. So essentially you can just pot through it pretty much if you don't swim extremely badly.

    As for swim I have to admit I've swum it on fvs, sorc,monk,exploiter, pure wiz (without insightful), barb but never anything that would wear heavy plate so my swim was always Str bonus +voice of master +gh(usually) that left me in the single to low double digits and I've never found it an issue.

    Just my 2 copper,
    Rawel
    ohh, so that's how it works! i wondered why the fighter said he'd help by pulling the lever, i thought he just meant the swim home in that bit we all bounce down the waterway earlier in the quest

    on the plus side i pulled the swim off with thunder in an at level heroic elite with a reflex in the mid 20's. had to borrow the fighters STR item though as i'd managed to sell mine to the bartender and was at med encumberance! ahh, so many years practice and still capable of such stupidity

    back on topic, as for changing the quest, no ta, it's nice to have a few quests here and there that are completely different. i still have a healthy respect for the swim even after pulling it off on a barbarian. it's also great practice for the raid if you get fly and go for the lever, something i've also done on my barbarian.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Ran Crucible with a friend yesterday. Died a lot. Had a blast! Mucho fun, great XP, and enough loot to pay for the repairs. What more could a person ask for?

    btw - My philosophy in DDO is I am going to enjoy the game as much as possible. I'm not looking for the best xp/min, the "uber" build, or the "uber mad lewts". I'm just here to have fun and enjoy playing a game with people I like. If the game stops being fun, it's time for me to move on.
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