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  1. #1
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    Default [Wizard] Some thoughts about the ultimate Enchanter

    Recently I played an Enchantment focused Warforged Archmage 18 / Rogue 2 to Level 20 and now I start to level the EDs but I also started to think about TR. The far away goal would be 3 Wiz lives, 1 Bard life and 3 Druid lives until the final Wiz life.

    I love the idea of letting the mobs fight each other and there is always a good chance, that the charmed Mob loses enough HP that the Dismiss Charm skill finally kills it (except you have a Hireling that can heal, because it will heal the charmed mob too if in range).

    My core experiences were:
    - SP get used up pretty quickly until I got about 1,5k of them.
    - Vermins (Scorpions/Spiders) and Animals like Wolfs, Dogs and Lions cannot be charmed/holded by Wizard spells (except the few magical beast subtypes)
    - I never recognized the benefit from Evasion except when running into Spellwards (which I could disable though).
    - I waited too long to take Enlarge, which is a huge improvement to all the short ranged charm spells and comforts gameplay a lot.
    - with U19, because of the new Skill Spellcraft and the Spellpower gained from Repair, (Heal) and Perform I had to skip UMD entirely to have enough points left for Search, Spot and DD.
    - Trap skills without items granting +Search and +DD are nearly worthless (at Heroic Hard and Elite).
    - Animals and Vermins (like most Undead) tend to have very low Will saves all over the game, which is why I could use the unmeta'ed Sonic Blast from 1 to 20 and am still using it frequently to daze them.
    - Until I had no SP problems anymore I always used a Cleric Hireling with Divine Vitality. Since about Level 16 I only use Warforged Fighters, Paladins or Barbarians because of Reconstruct (assigning me the role of their Healer) and their noticable durability and contribution of dmg.


    All these experiences lead to the following thoughts to build the ultimate Enchanter:

    * The feats won't vary much, except when TR'ing and swapping for past life feats (maybe Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness).

    Insightful Reflexes
    Augment Summoning
    Enlarge
    Heighten
    Quicken
    Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Spell Penetration
    Greater Spell Penetration
    Mental Toughness
    Improved Mental Toughness

    * Splashing Druid into Wizard, at least one Level, at max three Levels. The goal for Wiz is at least Level 17 for Mass Hold Monster, at max Level 19. Trap skills are nice and perhaps Evasion is nicer than I experienced it, so it's possible to splash one or two Rogue Levels too. Possible combinations would be (there seems to be not much benefit from two Druid levels regarding Enchantment, so):

    #1 Wizard 19 / Druid 1 (Charm Animal, Lesser Vigor)
    #2 Wizard 18 / Druid 1 / Rogue 1 (Trap Skills)
    #3 Wizard 17 / Druid 3 (Hold Animal, Cure light Wounds, Animal Form)
    #4 Wizard 17 / Druid 1 / Rogue 2 (Evasion)

    Cons:
    x no Capstone
    x -1 to -3 Caster Levels
    x slightly shorter Duration of Buffs and Charms
    x -1 Wiz Bonus Feat
    x at Character creation more points into Wisdom are needed (I'd recommend to start with at least both 16 in Int and Wis)
    x no Wiz Level 18 Archmage SLA V when following Wiz 17 paths
    x Dismiss Charm doesn't affect Charm Animal (bug or not thought about it, I don't know), but due to only 3 Levels of Druid at max it won't last that long anyway
    x The Wolf companion won't be effective, just use it to pull levers and things like that. If it gets into fight and dies, you will loose HP and SP which should be avoided.

    Pros:
    + Charm everything that is not immune to it by design
    + Hold everything that is not immune to it by design (if going path #3)
    + Trap skills (if going path #2 or #4)
    + Evasion (if going path #4)
    + Animal Form makes the Wizard a bit more survivable in melee in early level areas (if going path #3)
    + Lesser Vigor and Cure light Wounds can be easily pushed by spending a few points into the Heal skill or wearing an item or augment a gem that increases healing Spellpower.

    When splashed three Levels of Druid, the Charm Animal get's +1 DC from being heightened. Other +DC points are available only from raising Wisdom, +Enchantment feats and Enhancements and items that provide +DC to all schools or Enchantment only.

    * Chosing race. I thought about Half-Elf with Cleric Dilettante instead of Warforged to gain more versatility regarding Hirelings and party usefulness because of CL Scrolls and Wands. Though Warforged is pretty standable too, gets more HP but is limited to a few Hirelings due to no normal Healing spells (this may vary with higher Int and more Skillpoints for UMD, but I didn't get any tomes yet so I can't tell anything helpful about it). Plus: Being a fleshy Archmage makes one to two spell slots available for other spells than Repair and Reconstruct (I slotted Repair serious Dmg, which is always in the SP Range of SP Recovery; maybe Repair moderate Dmg would as well be enough, since I just have abut 300 HP; and Reconstruct).

    The starting Stats (32 pt) would be

    STR 11
    DEX 8
    CON 14
    INT 17
    WIS 16
    CHA 8

    I'm fearing the Strenght reduction by enemy casts a bit, but these three points could either go to Wis or Con and Dex/Cha too.

    * Chosing Enhancements
    The fully enhanced Cleric Dilettante counts as Level 10 Cleric, enough to use the raise scroll without UMD check. The Helf racial tree also provides +2 Wisdom, 100 SP and 3 Spell Pen, 6 universal Spellpower, +1 Int from Core Enhancements and +3 Int for 20 Seconds during an Action Boost.

    Update: Due to recent changes the Enhancement Points can get distributed in another way as suggested before. The Wand & Scroll Mastery Enhancement now costs the same and has the same effect in all class trees, so there's no reason anymore to spend points in Season's Herald to get it, but can be spent elsewhere. For Enchantment purpose only there seems to be no need to put points into the +Spellpower in the Helf tree. So our main trees are the Helf racial, AM and PM. If Rogue is splashed too, maybe the Mechanic tree is worth some investments for better trapping - for the sacrifice of some points in other trees. The point distribution should vary between:

    Half Elf: 18 to 25
    Archmage: 32 to 42
    Pale Master: 11 to 22
    (Mechanic: 4 to 7)

    The main Enhancements of any build mentioned above should be: School Mastery II and Shroud of the Vampire. Cleric Improved Dilettante III if you play Half Elf. Secondary School Mastery is up to your choice, I'd probably take Necromancy, because the spells to control undead are all Necromancy ones. Arcane Supremacy can be nice but it's not necessary. In the PM tree to get the second +Int Enhancement 22 pts must be spent, I'd recommend to put some points into one or two SLA's [Core I (1) Deathless Vigor (6) Necrotic Touch (3) Core II (1) Core III (1) - either Metamagic (6) or Necrotic Bolt (3) and Bone Armor (3) - Int (2) Int (2)] because Beholders suck

    Starting with Wisdom 16 the DC for Charm Animal would nearly touch the 30's because all the Spell focus feats, Wiz and Epic Destiny enhancements, and +Wisdom items push its DC. A few postings later I started to report about my leveling experience with a 17/2/1 build.


    Thank's for reading and I'd appreciate your thoughts an opinions about this.
    Last edited by Lanhelin; 12-30-2013 at 05:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    Recently I played an Enchantment focused Warforged Archmage 18 / Rogue 2 to Level 20 and now I start to level the EDs but I also started to think about TR. The far away goal would be 3 Wiz lives, 3 Bard lives and 3 Druid lives until the final Wiz life.

    I love the idea of letting the mobs fight each other and there is always a good chance, that the charmed Mob loses enough HP that the Dismiss Charm skill finally kills it (except you have a Hireling that can heal, because it will heal the charmed mob too if in range).
    Do you fight with a lot of summoned creatures? If not I would easily skip the 3 druid lives. I tend not too, except in certain circumstances. Why both TRing 3 times for something you don't use much.

    You might consider 3 FvS lives. That will give you an addition +3 on spell pen and 60 spell points.

    Also Bard lives do not give anything to your enchantment DC's. It gives you +2 to saves versus enchantments. However the Bard Purchased Past life feat does give a +1 to enchantment. So I would say go for only 1 bard life, the others would be pretty worthless for this build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    My core experiences were:
    - SP get used up pretty quickly until I got about 1,5k of them.
    - Vermins (Scorpions/Spiders) and Animals like Wolfs, Dogs and Lions cannot be charmed/holded by Wizard spells (except the few magical beast subtypes)
    - I never recognized the benefit from Evasion except when running into Spellwards (which I could disable though).
    - I waited too long to take Enlarge, which is a huge improvement to all the short ranged charm spells and comforts gameplay a lot.
    - with U19, because of the new Skill Spellcraft and the Spellpower gained from Repair, (Heal) and Perform I had to skip UMD entirely to have enough points left for Search, Spot and DD.
    - Trap skills without items granting +Search and +DD are nearly worthless (at Heroic Hard and Elite).
    - Animals and Vermins (like most Undead) tend to have very low Will saves all over the game, which is why I could use the unmeta'ed Sonic Blast from 1 to 20 and am still using it frequently to daze them.
    - Until I had no SP problems anymore I always used a Cleric Hireling with Divine Vitality. Since about Level 16 I only use Warforged Fighters, Paladins or Barbarians because of Reconstruct (assigning me the role of their Healer) and their noticable durability and contribution of dmg.


    All these experiences lead to the following thoughts to build the ultimate Enchanter:

    * The feats won't vary much, except when TR'ing and swapping for past life feats (maybe Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness).

    Insightful Reflexes
    Augment Summoning
    Enlarge
    Heighten
    Quicken
    Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Spell Penetration
    Greater Spell Penetration
    Mental Toughness
    Improved Mental Toughness
    Do you use lot's of summons? If you don't I would say there is not much of a point in augment sommoning. And swap that out. For that matter unless you use sommons a lot I would skip the 3 druid lives as well. Does not seem to add if you are not summoning lot's of help.

    So personally I would skip that and add Maximize into the rotation. There are always situations that you just need to do some damage cause enchantments are not working. (most bosses at the very least)

    If you go with 3 past FVS lives, you might be able to drop Greater Spell Pen as you will already have a base +9. But then again being able to get Epic Spell Pen would give you a total of +19. All depends on your style and what quests you like to run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    * Splashing Druid into Wizard, at least one Level, at max three Levels. The goal for Wiz is at least Level 17 for Mass Hold Monster, at max Level 19. Trap skills are nice and perhaps Evasion is nicer than I experienced it, so it's possible to splash one or two Rogue Levels too. Possible combinations would be (there seems to be not much benefit from two Druid levels regarding Enchantment, so):

    #1 Wizard 19 / Druid 1 (Charm Animal, Lesser Vigor)
    #2 Wizard 18 / Druid 1 / Rogue 1 (Trap Skills)
    #3 Wizard 17 / Druid 3 (Hold Animal, Cure light Wounds, Animal Form)
    #4 Wizard 17 / Druid 1 / Rogue 2 (Evasion)
    You know I really fail to see the benefit of spalling a druid into this build. If it mainly is to get the Wand and Scroll heighting you have to look at your play style and see just how much you actually use them. If you do not use them a ton, I would probably pass on the druid splash.

    If you don't find much utility from the evasion I would just splash one rogue for the trapping skills and call it good, and in that regard potentially dropping Insightful reflexes as well, for a past life feat.

    The more splashing the more you are losing out on 8th/9th level spells AND nearly 100 SP each Wiz level you take away.

    The Mental Toughnesses are tough to drop depending on what your spell pool looks like.

    So if you are going for uber enchanter, I try and keep as pure as possible for spell DC's and mana.

    But ultimately since you need 3 wiz lives you have a couple lives to play with these builds to see which you like best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    When splashed three Levels of Druid, the Charm Animal get's +1 DC from being heightened. Other +DC points are available only from raising Wisdom, +Enchantment feats and Enhancements and items that provide +DC to all schools or Enchantment only.
    This seems like a very minor pro to the big con's of lose of spells and mana and other dc's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    * Chosing race. I thought about Half-Elf with Cleric Dilettante instead of Warforged to gain more versatility regarding Hirelings and party usefulness because of CL Scrolls and Wands. Though Warforged is pretty standable too, gets more HP but is limited to a few Hirelings due to no normal Healing spells (this may vary with higher Int and more Skillpoints for UMD, but I didn't get any tomes yet so I can't tell anything helpful about it). Plus: Being a fleshy Archmage makes one to two spell slots available for other spells than Repair and Reconstruct (I slotted Repair serious Dmg, which is always in the SP Range of SP Recovery; maybe Repair moderate Dmg would as well be enough, since I just have abut 300 HP; and Reconstruct).

    The starting Stats (32 pt) would be

    STR 11
    DEX 8
    CON 14
    INT 17
    WIS 16
    CHA 8

    I'm fearing the Strenght reduction by enemy casts a bit, but these three points could either go to Wis or Con and Dex/Cha too.
    Like I said, I am not sure I would do the druid splash. As such you can drop Wis significantly, and I would put con to at least 16, maybe 17. Then the rest as you like. I woudn't worry about str too much. You are not a front line fighter and it really is an issue more at the lower levels which are easy to get through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    * Chosing Enhancements
    The fully enhanced Cleric Dilettante counts as Level 10 Cleric, enough to use the raise scroll without UMD check. The Helf racial tree also provides +2 Wisdom, 100 SP and 3 Spell Pen, 6 universal Spellpower, +2 Int from Core Enhancements and +3 Int for 20 Seconds during an Action Boost.
    The Season's Herald tree lets improve Scrolls and Wands for 4 AP only, getting the same effect in the Archmage tree would cost 9 AP (which would be an additional 9% universal Spellpower though, but dmg is only secondary for this build).

    Points spent in the Half-Elf Racial tree: 26
    Archmage: 39 (a few points are variable, eg. the Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast which I took in my first life, but wouldn't in my second and spend them in better metamagics instead)
    Season's Herald: 4
    Pale Master: 11 (for Shroud of the Vampire which grants +2 Enchantment DC)
    While shroud of the vampire would be great for your DC's especially with a 14 con you are likely to be on the squishy side, and one light spell away from death. Without some more hit points, and something to reduce the damage of the light spells.

    Also being in Vamp form means you cannot be healed by that cleric dilly that you are taking. I would pick a route, if you are going fleshie, normal healing, forget about going undead form.

    If you want the undead form, drop the cleric dilly and then invest more into the PM tree to make sure your negative self healing will work well and get some light protection like the pale rod and twist in that one destiny feat from one of the divine destinies that gives protection from light damage. I might then take Phally as the dilly for the boost in overall saves and being able to use some divine wands for non undead self healing. Then I would only take the arcanum and little else. Or consider just going human for the feat, or maybe drow for the higher int and potential innate SR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    Starting with Wisdom 16 the DC for Charm Animal would hardly touch the 30's - but even slightly above 20 is enough for most Animals in the whole game (eg. my Sonic Blast has a DC of 22 at Level 20 and dazes Bears, Scorpions, Dogs, Spiders and Lions pretty often).
    Oh your splashing druid just to get animal charm. Interesting. Play with it in one of your wiz lives to see if it is worth it.

    I am still not sold.

    But overall should be fun, makes me kind of interested in an enchanter build.
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  3. #3
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Too much to read through, and there are plenty of threads discussing this stuff around.

    But on topic: If you aren't noticing the benefit of Evasion, it means that it's probably working. Are you dying when something throws a Fireball at you? Do you find yourself healing around enemy casters a lot? Have you run any raids, and if so, have you died a lot in the big fights?

    If the answers to those are "NO," then it means Evasion has been doing what it's supposed to. If you're answering "Yes," then it means you probably need to invest more in your [Reflex] saves.

    If you're going to splash rogue in the first place, there's basically no reason to go only 1 level--Evasion is that good.

    Splashing druid would be fairly worthless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    Do you fight with a lot of summoned creatures? If not I would easily skip the 3 druid lives. I tend not too, except in certain circumstances. Why both TRing 3 times for something you don't use much.

    You might consider 3 FvS lives. That will give you an addition +3 on spell pen and 60 spell points.

    Also Bard lives do not give anything to your enchantment DC's. It gives you +2 to saves versus enchantments. However the Bard Purchased Past life feat does give a +1 to enchantment. So I would say go for only 1 bard life, the others would be pretty worthless for this build.
    Thank you very much for the Bard hint.

    I do not only use Summons, but also Hirelings and of course charmed Minions. To all of them Augment Summoning and the three passive Druid past life feats would apply (+10 to all abilities). One of the ED's also offers an additional +4 buff, stacking with AS - whether stacking with the past lives feats I don't know yet - which then would be +14 to all abilities. Having +14 STR or CON or whatelse or having it not should make a noticable difference I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    While shroud of the vampire would be great for your DC's especially with a 14 con you are likely to be on the squishy side, and one light spell away from death. Without some more hit points, and something to reduce the damage of the light spells.

    Also being in Vamp form means you cannot be healed by that cleric dilly that you are taking. I would pick a route, if you are going fleshie, normal healing, forget about going undead form.
    I already use the Shroud with the Warforged Wiz I actually play. Repair spells don't work too when in Vampire, but it's easy to toggle off, get Reconstruct and toggle on again. Also with the Cleric Dili I'm wondering if I could use Inflict scrolls for healing purpose on myself while in Shroud?


    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    Oh your splashing druid just to get animal charm. Interesting. Play with it in one of your wiz lives to see if it is worth it.
    Yes, it's the main purpose to splash Druid since Wizards cannot charm or hold Animals and Vermin but Druids can. The good thing is, that Animals and Vermins have very low Will saves, so even with one Druid Level the charm spell would pretty often do what it's supposed to (in comparison to Tier 1 Wiz spell Sonic Blast, which I use unmeta'ed and it dazes animals and vermin pretty often too, even in High Road and King's Forest).

    I think, I'd go either Druid 1 / Rogue 2 or Druid 3 the next life, and trying Helf with Cleric Dili.

  5. #5
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    I already use the Shroud with the Warforged Wiz I actually play. Repair spells don't work too when in Vampire, but it's easy to toggle off, get Reconstruct and toggle on again. Also with the Cleric Dili I'm wondering if I could use Inflict scrolls for healing purpose on myself while in Shroud?
    While I have not thought about it to test it, yes inflict scrolls should heal you while you are in shroud form. Actually in fact now that I remember it, when I was running through my wiz past lifes, running with a guildie who was a cleric use to carry harm to be able to heal me when they wanted. So yes scrolls should have the same effect as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    While I have not thought about it to test it, yes inflict scrolls should heal you while you are in shroud form. Actually in fact now that I remember it, when I was running through my wiz past lifes, running with a guildie who was a cleric use to carry harm to be able to heal me when they wanted. So yes scrolls should have the same effect as well.
    I tested it and it works, despite the tooltips of the inflict scrolls say that they affect foes and friendly undead only. I'm the best undead friend of mine.

    A few days ago I TR'ed and now I'm testing the Wiz 17 / Druid 3 build, as a Half-Elf (34 pt: STR 10, DEX 8, CON 15, INT 18, WIS 16, CHA 8) with the Cleric dilettante like stated in the OP. Leveling plan is D,D,W,D,W(x16).

    Funny detail so far: spiders are immune to player web spell, but not immune to the web spit attack of other spiders^^
    Not so funny detail: Charmed Animals cannot be released by dismiss charm, but due to few Druid Levels the spell doesn't last that long anyway.

    When I hit epic Levels again I'm sure to be able to tell some more things about this build.

  7. #7
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    Default Important thing to consider.

    Something to keep in mind about the druid past lives and augment summoning. The +10 to all stats also raises the mobs saves by +5 against your charm spells. Depending on twinkage and what mob you target this may not be an issue but it is a factor to consider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golddragon87 View Post
    Something to keep in mind about the druid past lives and augment summoning. The +10 to all stats also raises the mobs saves by +5 against your charm spells. Depending on twinkage and what mob you target this may not be an issue but it is a factor to consider.
    Good point. I'm excited about how it will work. Augment Summoning alone did not limit the time of being charmed much I dare to say. But what will +3 Saves do, I don't know. When I finish the third Druid life in far future there's a good chance that +10 Tomes are available to push DC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    Good point. I'm excited about how it will work. Augment Summoning alone did not limit the time of being charmed much I dare to say. But what will +3 Saves do, I don't know. When I finish the third Druid life in far future there's a good chance that +10 Tomes are available to push DC.
    I've run a caster with school of Enchantment capabilities since 2006. Here's a few hints and tips you may find helpful:

    -Deciding what level of content you want to be effective in can *really* help your build design as DC is your primary level of effectiveness, with spell penetration as secondary. Enchantment based CC is different in 1-20 Heroic levels and Epic Normal than it is in EH/EE. In the first you can use Dominate Monster, Charm, Suggestion, etc and they last their full duration. In EH/EE all those spells only last about 15 seconds or less and they wear off due to Epic Ward monsters have. So this really changes the strategy of what spells to use. That said, a quickened mass charm/suggestion can potentially give you a few vital seconds if things are going wrong in EH/EE (allows you to heal self, retreat, raise dead party members, etc.) Otto's Dancing Ball and Hold monster/person spells continue to work the same.

    -Using debuffs to lower the will save of monsters can be effective but make sure to watch your mana bar, gathering up groups of mobs first can be more mana efficient. Crushing Despair, Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee, etc can all be used to reduce saves.

    -Symbol of Persuasion will work on some animal types including wolves, owlbears, lions, etc. It doesn't work on spiders/scorpions (vermin). You can't dismiss it like other CC spells and it also disappears fast in EH/EE.

    -If you don't already use Otto's Irresistible Dance, it's a powerful CC spell to throw in the mix.

    I currently run a 20 Human Palemaster with secondary focus in Archmage:Enchantment. An 18/2 split will be 1 DC lower due to the +2 int from Wiz capstone. It will be -2 spell penetration due to -2 caster levels. I don't advocate either way, just so you're aware of the mechanics. I hope you found some of this useful and enjoy your build.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humperdink View Post
    -Deciding what level of content you want to be effective in can *really* help your build design as DC is your primary level of effectiveness, with spell penetration as secondary. Enchantment based CC is different in 1-20 Heroic levels and Epic Normal than it is in EH/EE. In the first you can use Dominate Monster, Charm, Suggestion, etc and they last their full duration. In EH/EE all those spells only last about 15 seconds or less and they wear off due to Epic Ward monsters have. So this really changes the strategy of what spells to use. That said, a quickened mass charm/suggestion can potentially give you a few vital seconds if things are going wrong in EH/EE (allows you to heal self, retreat, raise dead party members, etc.) Otto's Dancing Ball and Hold monster/person spells continue to work the same.
    In my first life I didn't play any EE quests, EH was the highest difficulty I tried. And swapping ED's from maxed Magister to virginal Fatesinger felt kind of "naked" even in Wilderness Zones like the Forest or High Road epic. As Warforged Wiz with 2 Rogue splash without Magister and Vampire Shroud enchanting, holding and dancing really was a pain. The +2 DC from Vampire made it much more viable. I hope, that this issue will be gone as Half-Elf and the +2/+5 INT racial enhancements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humperdink View Post
    -Using debuffs to lower the will save of monsters can be effective but make sure to watch your mana bar, gathering up groups of mobs first can be more mana efficient. Crushing Despair, Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee, etc can all be used to reduce saves.
    Yes, I used the debuffs a bit, but the Will debuff from Magister was sufficient in most cases so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humperdink View Post
    -Symbol of Persuasion will work on some animal types including wolves, owlbears, lions, etc. It doesn't work on spiders/scorpions (vermin). You can't dismiss it like other CC spells and it also disappears fast in EH/EE.
    Tried this once, but its CD is too long, even quickened. Furthermore there are so many useful T6 spells like Greater Heroism, Mass Suggestion, Reconstruct, Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, True Seeing that I didn't want to swap for the Symbol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humperdink View Post
    -If you don't already use Otto's Irresistible Dance, it's a powerful CC spell to throw in the mix.
    I didn't use it so far, because the second Enchantment SLA worked in 99% of all cases. But I'll give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humperdink View Post
    I currently run a 20 Human Palemaster with secondary focus in Archmage:Enchantment. An 18/2 split will be 1 DC lower due to the +2 int from Wiz capstone. It will be -2 spell penetration due to -2 caster levels. I don't advocate either way, just so you're aware of the mechanics. I hope you found some of this useful and enjoy your build.
    Yes, I'm aware of that. And thank you very much for your hints and tips.

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    Small Update: Due to the lack of Trappers in my level-range on Wayfinder I swapped to the Druid 1 / Rogue 2 / Wiz 17 build [R,D,W(x7),R,W(x10)]. No Animal Form, no Hold Animal anymore, but it felt pretty limiting doing quests without trap skills and I don't know the dungeons good enough yet to avoid all traps successfully. Level 7 now and did all the quests on Elite except rescuing the Binders. The Cleric dilettante makes gameplay a lot easier and SP management too, because I'm not limited on taking Cleric Hires but did all the quests with Fighters so far, scroll-healing them and myself. Though it's very expensive, some 100k platinum I'd recommend to bring with to be able to always buy enough scrolls. Charm Animal works great on Spiders, Scorpions, Dogs and Wolves. Let them web, poison & trip themselves^^

    Turbine changed the Racial Enhancement Tree for Half-Elfs, so there's only +1 Wisdom instead of +2. Two points left to go elsewhere. Maybe into PM for additional +1 Int.

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    Vermin in general wouldn't be a critter I want charmed myself as they really aren't all that tough in the grand scale of things. You can use limited amounts of CC on them in the forms of either Web, Electric Loop and Sonic Blast/Greater Shout (Varies by type of course, no web for spiders). Personally I prefer to outright kill vermin and use my charms on other creatures.

    It would be nice is Summons really were better but unfortunately it never seems to work out that way. Focusing on the Enchanter build is fun flavor and I am all for that, since I have been known to run a Fleshy Archmage through some Wizard lives for the variety of play. Some of the ED type summons stuff can be useful and interesting. One of my guild mates has a CC/Healbot bard who has quite a bit focused on summons as well and it can be an interesting combination.
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    Yes, it's more a flavor thing - an Enchanter should be able to enchant all mob types, this is what I'd expect. Unfortunately Charm Monster doesn't work on normal Animals and Vermin, especially not on Spiders, this was the main reason for the Druid splash. When I did the first Demonweb quest together with a guild mate the challenges there were pretty disappointing, because I couldn't do much against all the waves of spiders, except AoE, pulling Aggro and running away or let my Hire fight and reconstruct him. Now the chances are good that I at least can charm a few of them to make the fight a bit easier and to not feel so useless anymore.

    I use Summons only when a slot is free and I can do without the other spells. What I used pretty often was the Monster IX Eladrin Ghaele and the Hezrou, but in epic content I swapped it for Energy Drain and used the Magister Summon.

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    Level 12 now and there were only two quests where I had some problems so far: Jungle of Khyber (Spell Resistance of the Drow was still higher than my racial +3, AM +3 and Wiz PL +2 Spell Penetration at Lvl 11 (Wiz 8 / Rogue 2 / Druid 1)) and Haunted Library (DC was too low for all the blackbone undead, although I had heightened the Control Undead spell and much higher Int than in my first life - 29, which "should have" compensated the one Wiz Level I was lower, but didn't) both on Elite difficulty and Lvl 11. Yesterday I did the Claw of Vulkoor on Elite, there were Scorpions in CR Range of 13 to 16 and I could easily charm them with the unheightened Druid T1 spell (currently DC 17 due to no item with +Wis that fits my equipment setup at the moment) which really was cool, because uncharmed they healed themselves and nearby other Scorpions about every 3 Seconds.
    Also the Spiders and Hyenas in Red Fens and Ataraxia Wilderness are easily charmable, only the Lions have higher Will and save more often. But this should change with higher Wisdom and the AM spellschool focus.

    The difference to my first life where I played Warforged with no UMD is noticable too. The healing with scrolls saves a lot SP. Disadvantages: they are not suitable for saving platinum and weigh way to much. I'm carrying around about 100 lbs as scrolls, as caster at STR 10, I'm encumbered medium all the time. One scroll should weigh 0,01 instead of 0,1. But being able to call a Fighter Hire instead of a Cleric and to heal/raise other players outweighs the disadvantages.

    The Enhancement points I'll distribute a bit different as stated in the first posting, because eg. the Core Enhancements in the Half-Elf tree won't allow to take Int two times. Either I take one Wis instead or spend less points there. I'm thinking about a few different distributions, which I'll post here later.

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    Level 14 now and things still go fine. I did all quests alone with a Fighter Hire and on Elite so far (Hiding in Plain Sight, Haywire Mine, Whisperdoom, Skyfall Coast, Frame Work and a few not story related dungeons in Menechtarun). I still wear no +Wis Item but the AM spellschool focus pushed the DC of Charm Animal to 20. Only the spitting Spawn of Whisperdoom Spiders could save against the charm, but usually not when they took a bit of damage before (what the exact relation between damage taken and will saves is, I'm not sure, but it seemed to be so). Great: in my first life I really feared the Dark Fang Hunter Spiders (a pack of them killed me in Hiding in Plain Sight and the way back was looooong), because in melee range they can take a squishy Wiz down in a few seconds, especially when they are in two or more. This time they were my best friends, killing themselves or the spitting spiders or even Whisperdoom itself (and the rare one in Frame Work). If for nothing else - because of the Dark Fang Hunters the one Druid Level was worth to splash

    The Scorpions, Panthers and Dire Wolfs in both Skyfall Coast and Frame Work were no problem too. Dance a few, charm a few, win. Their Trip attack is annoying, but when they trip each other or Minotaurs it's fun.

    Also Spell Pen seems to work now, though it still wasn't high enough to dance the Iron Golems in the Haywire Mine (I wonder if it ever will be high enough, maybe even not as pure Wiz), the final boss (Marut) and his four Golems were beaten down by my Hire, me decursing and scroll-healing him from a distance.

    At the moment I see only advantages from the one Druid Level, despite it takes one Level longer to get the Dancing Ball compaired to the 18/2 build in my first life. Until Level 20 I have two general feats and one Wiz bonus feat left. I'll take the Spell Pen line, but for the bonus I'm not sure yet. I dither between Mental Toughness and Maximize.

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    Level 16 now and I love the one Druid level. Did the GH Troll Lair on Elite and I could charm the spiders pretty often. Same for the Razor Cats in the Minotaur Lair on Elite too. It's pretty cool when one can charm all adds and only the boss is left, poisoned and taken down by his adds. Also Slayer in Vale of Twilight is more fun now. The only enemy I fear so far are Beholders. Eg. I tried Dreams of Insanity on Elite, but the first Beholder in there killed me (its Anti-Magic Aura also prevents using scrolls). Maybe it gets better now with the dancing ball to cc the adds, but I didn't try it yet.

    I also did the complete Lordsmarch chain on Elite which was much fun. Unfortunately my Melee Hire refused to attack the earth elementals in the tunnel/mine dungeon, so I had to charm them all and blow them up with the bombs one gets in there. Yes I died a few times in the whole chain because of my unwariness, but nevertheless it was fun.

    I have updated the first posting due to recent changes to the Enhancement trees. There are no points in the Season's Herald tree anymore, but I took the Wand & Scroll Mastery in the AM tree. The current distribution is AM 37, Helf 18, PM 7 - I'm working towards the Vampire Shroud. The plan is to put 22 points into PM for the two +Int Enhancements, then there are 3 points left. I could put them into the Helf tree to get the +3 Int during an action boost, but I only accidently use those boosts, so I'm not sure about the last three points yet. Maybe I take the Secondary School Mastery or Arcane Supremacy instead.

    Due to the W&S Mastery changes the one Druid level now really is for the Charm Animal spell only. The heal over time spell was nice until about Level 4. The Wolf Companion as Lever Puller only does its job too.

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    Level 18 now. Spinner of Shadows and Beyond the Rift (in two with a pure Druid and on Elite) were nice but very challenging, especially the last fight against the Drider. We died often^^. I could charm the spiders in BtR easily (DC 22). The duration because of save against the charm doesn't interrupt the kill speed that much but eases the fights a lot. I also was in the Storm Horns (Lvl 19 recommended) with lvl 17 and could charm the Griffons, Owlbears and Pseudo-Dragons there pretty often. Did the first two Wheloon quests (cr 18, I was lvl 17, together with a monk/ranger/wiz) and Crucible on Elite (me, Rogue and a Paladin) - these took a while due to bugs/mechanics but the cc was awesome. Especially in the Wheloon quest where one has to defeat the three camps from intruders/bandits it felt like raid difficulty but thanks to Disco Ball and Mass Hold Person we survived and could finish it alive. Got Vampire Shroud. The only problems I had so far was in *In the Flesh* Elite - we couldn't defeat the Mindflayer Boss, he was pretty tough, too tough for us at both lvl 17.

    The 1 Druid Level is awesome, I still wear no +Wis item and the charm works great on spiders and worgs, griffons and so on. Soon I'll hit lvl 20 and then a few DA runs and TR to get the first Druid PL :-)

    Edit: The heal with Inflict Scrolls is an option but not the best one, because I have to target myself first (F1) and then cast Inflict, but the positive energy scrolls work without targeting myself first. In case of emergency I'd unshroud and cast Heal, but no Inflict.

    Edit 2: Took Mental Toughness instead of Maximize as lvl 18 Wiz bonus feat.

    Feats taken so far:

    Augment Summoning
    Cleric Dilettante (Helf racial)
    Enlarge
    Insightful Reflexes
    Heighten
    Past Life: Arcane Initiate
    Quicken
    Spellfocus: Enchantment
    Greater Spellfocus: Enchantment
    Spell Penetration
    Greater Spell Penetration
    Mental Toughness
    Last edited by Lanhelin; 12-30-2013 at 05:48 AM.

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    Finally made it to 20. Charm Animal has DC 25 now (DC 27 in Vampire Shroud, max DC 33 with Magister ED). I still wear no +Wis item but ate a +5 Tome. I soloed Thorn and Paw on Elite at Level 19 and could charm the CR 22 Maddened Bears with the CL 1 Druid Spell (sometimes it needed a few tries, but it worked). On the Dire Bears there it didn't work, but fortunately I could dance them. After taking the second Int Enhancement in PM and Arcane Supremacy in AM there was one point left which I put again into Season's Herald for 5 more Spellpower. Now I'm up to do a few epic Levels to get closer to the Primal Avatar ED, earn a few Comms and TR Tokens for the third life.

    Overall the one Druid Level was worth to take, especially for encounters with hard hitting packs of Spiders, Wolves and Scorpions. I'm curious about its usefulness in the Demon Web wilderness and the first quest there and ofc the epic Storm Horns Wilderness. The spell "should" work there too, judged on my experiences from 1 to 20 with it.

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