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  1. #281
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaperAlexEU View Post
    1: it's duping, that is about as black and white as it gets when trying to work out if something is an exploit or not in any MMO. it's about as black and white as using wallhacks in an online FPS is.

    2: not sure either way on this, partly because DDO is non-competitive which makes even blatant exploits like duping less of an issue than it would in a PvP MMO. as it was i lost 2 hours on a rare evening of getting a friend to play DDO to the hot fix, sucky timing but we still managed to have fun either side of the hot fix. it's a lose lose situation when the few mess up the game for the many.

    3: yes and no, it is shoddy coding but even given more resources to doing things right exploits still rear their ugly head from time to time.

    4: AS especially, really hate to think that might have been a contributing factor to turbines response, but then i try my best not to wear a tin foil hat

    5: yes to all of this, and if the punishment is a 5 day ban without the items being stripped then it's going to be even worse next time. we've all seen the "exploit early and exploit often" mentality banged about these forums, if turbine want to change that than for things like this they have to make it very clear it's not worth milking an exploit. that is the easy bit. rebuilding that community with the players is the hard bit but i have seen some progress on that front. there has for example been more forum interaction in the past few months

    here's hoping this is a lightning rod for change for the better
    2) Either this is a big deal or it isn't. To be honest, yes it affects certain things, but in many ways this actually equalizes rare items for those who are not already insanely wealthy/good at the game. I don't see how it hurts me if I join a random PUG and someone who has played for 2 weeks has a black dragonscale robe. That means they are more likely to contribute to the group, and more likely to have fun. If they were kicking around in +3 leather armor of fire guard, and died in the first wave, do you think they would have more fun? Everyone likes to feel good, and having better gear helps. Yes, the wealthy get wealthier, but I'm happy to see more people geared up. Who knows, maybe they'll have more fun and stick around the game? (Side note: This is the same reason I'm pre-heroic ED use. Because it's more fun, and isn't that why we play this game? Does it kill me if a new toon which stoned their first life uses cocoon on their frenzied barbarian? It means I'm not lugging a soul stone, and they're having a blast cleaving enemies.) So, is it a big deal? If yes, then it should have been treated as such from the start. If it's not, then why is everyone up in arms?

    5) I agree. I think forum interaction is good, but what I've seen is alot of talking about how we all get along, but they still release half-done projects loaded with bugs. The near randgen lootgear was admitted to be half-done when released. How would it hurt anyone for them to spend another month on it and finish it? It's not like it was fixing something which was broken. Same with any other number of bugs (which everyone has their own pet peeves). I don't expect every release will be bug-free, but I do expect them to be fixed in a timely manner. I lead alot of pugs, and even new players are commenting on debilitating lag, and asking me "is this how such and such is supposed to be, it seems broken." When even new players, who never visit the forums and get jaded here, notice then the game has issues. At the end of the day, actions speak louder than words, and in many people's minds Turbine is doing nothing more than words.

  2. #282
    Community Member DeKalbSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    Hello,

    I would like to know, if/how those who used exploit were/are/will be punished?
    My question is fairly simple and I DONT require an extremely specific answer (player Xyz of server blabla withc chars kbfdsbf dfhisbfdslf lsafldfb and gfngsdkl was punished by: bsdhfbdsf ifbnldfbndsl lifbdsilf), just a general: number xyz players were pnished by following: bfbdl fbdfvlnbd.

    Why do I want to know? Its simple. I havent cheated, even thou I knew how to do it since sunday. I know few ppl across the servers that did and I know that nothing happened to them so far.
    Now, I know we will never get the hard data of how mch of player population really cheated . mostly cause, you know, w weill never know how many ppl knew about the exploit, how many ppl knew hgow to do it and how many ppl actually had something worthwile to use it on.

    I do know, that in RL, using advantage that breaks one of major parts of economics would be morally wrong, because by doing that, one would strongly negatively affect lives of many people. YEah, it still happens, but that a whole different story and I dont want toé go there - this is a game forum, not forum of economics.

    But, in game, if one part of economics looses all its value overnight (which is what happened), one has to look onto things a little differently: If there are no consequences, then the same that heppened recently in Black Coal economy in RL, just happened in DDO - Scales, mats, auguments, all of those just lost their value. In part of my country, ppl are weeeping over Black Coal economy, but I do understand, that how it is. Now, to DDO:

    Morals are set by the culture we are living in. DDO is artifical world with no to very little RL consequences that creates artifical morals within its own universe, as any MMO. That has upsides (you dont care if someone is, lets say, crippled, unlike RL) and downsides (in RL, you will never kick someone out of your friend circle just becuase he is squishy or new to the collective). In the point of view set by the exploit, the morals are simple: many people used exploit, I even do dare to said that so many people, that at some tiers of the game, it became norm. So, if that is not handled accordingly to the old pre-exploit moral code, then it means that anyone who ahvent, like me, cut themselves out of the current state of game economy. In other words: I made myself a victim by not being in line with actuall ing game morals.

    That why I want to know, if and what will happen to exploiters. Because frankly, if nothing or nothing with real impact, then I will, of course, reevalute my approach on this game morals and will "cheat soon and cheat often" - else, I am cutting myself short because I misinterpret the games morals.

    I dont like paladins in DDO, or in any other game. And I would hate to be one from moral perspective :-) I just want to be decent human being even inside the game. And if the moral code says this is okay, as very significant part of populationis doing it, then its culturaly accepted and I am okay with it as well.
    So you didn't cheat because you were scared of repurcussions, not because of any morals you may or may not have. Morals aren't regulated by
    weather or not other people get away with cheating. Morals and integrity come from the individual. Some people have neither. So I don't get this
    post. I do get why you don't like paladins though.
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  3. #283
    Community Member Furbitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czekojin View Post
    I am glad that everyone agree.
    And because nobody knows nothing about the original topic)
    Well... I still hate paladins.


    Spay or Neuter your pallies today. for a better DDO tomorrow!

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  4. #284
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    People who don't spend money, won't spend money regardless. Bugs, lack of end game content, hamster wheel grinding etc. Exploits is a reason, but not the sole reason people don't spend money. And people who does spend money, tomes, Otto boxes etc, will continue to do so. The other thread there was this women who mention she and her husband spent over a thousand during their play here. DDO relies on those types of customers, vs F2P who are goodie-two-shoes but won't spend a dime. Can't apply same principles of mass ban like Blizzard's WOW.
    Yes, all those things contribute to maintaining the integrity of the game. The same principles can be applied for protecting the integrity of the game, regardless of population, because more damage is done if those principles are not applied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    And the ones who needs to lesson are the exploiters. Perma-ban? Lesson learnt, they move on to other things. DDO is the one who got hurt. Mabar they banned, and guess what, far more people took part in this exploit.
    And what lesson is learned if they do not ban. Everyone else can exploit too. You think people will continue to pay when they can exploit for free? You think a 1-2 week ban is a lesson to refrain from exploiting? Its a joke. The ill gotten goods gained would have taken far longer to farm than 1-2 weeks in orders of magnitude. For a week of not playing, a player can have a huge stack of coms? Lesson taught, do it early and often - which is why this situation exists in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    They have to fix themselves with changing their policy first. Like I said, they could have nipped this in the bud before it got crazy. But guess what they didn't. They need to fix themselves first, simple as that. In the ideal world things are black and white. In the real world, its infinite shades of grey. Should people who discovered the exploit in the last hour be perma-banned as the people who are day 1 exploiters? People who knowingly got duped items from their buddies be perma-ban? Technically they are accomplishes and are guilty. People who didn't exploit, but told other people who to exploit.
    The first part of fixing themselves is offloading exploiters. The fact that they did not in the past is why it didnt get nipped in the bud in the first place. The horse goes before the cart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    If Turbine just remove the NPC when they first heard about it, problem stopped right their and then. Broken policy. Turbine doesn't fix themselves, this will happen again. They game is barely hanging on as it is, and losing paying customers is the last thing they can afford when they are partly to blame.
    This one exploit would have been stopped, but the mentality that has been cultivated to exploit early and often lives on - and only stopped by offloading the exploiters.
    Last edited by Chai; 10-10-2013 at 10:15 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #285
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    You are forgetting this is a game where they make all the rules and can change them however they like on the fly.

    VIP used to mean everything included, then they rewrote the terms and added (except expansions).
    This change retoractively screwed every long time paying VIP who now has to purchase every expansion over and above their monthly long term contribution to the game.
    Turbine makes the rules... Dont like it.. too bad.. quit... Turbine doesn't care.. they are working to their agenda not ours..

    The other thing most people dont seem comprehend is that Turbine can ban anyone anytime for anything .. whenever they want, no reason required.
    There is no time limit to how far back they can go to find something to ban someone for.
    They could stumble across some old logs from 5 years ago that show someone had some long running exploit and ban them and anyone assoicated with them.

    They can ban you because they don't like your forum post.
    They dont have to justify or explain or defend anything, they can just make it happen .. bye bye.. you are gone...
    No one is failing to comprehand that - its part of the agreement we signed when we made our accounts - the same agreement the exploiters violated.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    Exploiting in a game is not immoral, its inethical...

    Glad we got that straight, still seems pathetic to me.

    To the op, I highly doubt much if anything happens to the exploiters.

    In the words of maynard: If consequences dictate course of action, then it doesn't matter whats right, its only wrong if you get caught.

    If only I could shoot them myself.
    So let me get this straight: You want to SHOOT people who abused this bug? Kill them? You can't possibly be serious.

    How did they affect you, at all? Cheaper stuff on the AH? AH closed for a few hours?

    This is worth DEATH? Get a grip, kid.

  7. #287
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    And your data to back this claim comes from where?.
    The same place the data exists that banning customers who break the rules would cause the game to shut down.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #288
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    So let me get this straight: You want to SHOOT people who abused this bug? Kill them? You can't possibly be serious.

    How did they affect you, at all? Cheaper stuff on the AH? AH closed for a few hours?

    This is worth DEATH? Get a grip, kid.
    Well, better the crazies are on the internet than working for the Post Office.

  9. #289

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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    That why I want to know, if and what will happen to exploiters. Because frankly, if nothing or nothing with real impact, then I will, of course, reevalute my approach on this game morals and will "cheat soon and cheat often" - else, I am cutting myself short because I misinterpret the games morals.
    You are free to choose. At a personal level, morals may be supplemented by ethics. The true impact of your actions must be measured against how such actions will affect other players regardless of punishment. If you've no qualms about utilizing an exploit provided you are soloing or no fellow party members object, I should think you would be ethically justified in doing so.

    I will not attempt to open debate as to what rule set should be followed to quantify objections to using exploits by other party members. That is another can of worms entirely.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Yes, all those things contribute to maintaining the integrity of the game. The same principles can be applied for protecting the integrity of the game, regardless of population, because more damage is done if those principles are not applied.



    And what lesson is learned if they do not ban. Everyone else can exploit too. You think people will continue to pay when they can exploit for free? You think a 1-2 week ban is a lesson to refrain from exploiting? Its a joke. The ill gotten goods gained would have taken far longer to farm than 1-2 weeks in orders of magnitude. For a week of not playing, a player can have a huge stack of coms? Lesson taught, do it early and often - which is why this situation exists in the first place.



    The first part of fixing themselves is offloading exploiters. The fact that they did not in the past is why it didnt get nipped in the bud in the first place. The horse goes before the cart.



    This one exploit would have been stopped, but the mentality that has been cultivated to exploit early and often lives on - and only stopped by offloading the exploiters.
    If 40% of the player of the player base partake in the exploit in one way or the other, ban them all? Might as well shut down DDO. Again real world is different.

    Tell me what lessons people learnt from the Mabar ban? People will continue to exploit if the mechanism is there.

    The culture of exploit is there because Turbine doesn't take proactive action. Bugs/exploit reported in Lamnia and guess what, made it to live. So what does that tell people? This exploit was reported. And people post crazy AH activities in the forum. But thread got deleted and everything kept hush hush with no action. The exploit has been posted on the Internet. What does that tell the players about Turbine?

    Putting the horse ahead of the cart does squat if the cart's wheels are broken. Fix the cart first.

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    If 40% of the player of the player base partake in the exploit in one way or the other, ban them all? Might as well shut down DDO. Again real world is different.
    If exploiting is so bad that a huge percentage of the population is doing it, that's the RESULT of years of not taking exploitation seriously. Turning that around will require some short-term pain, but would probably pay off in the long run. (Assuming there is one.)

    On the other hand, if the company has gotten to the point where it's afraid to enforce its own rules, then THAT would be a reason to shut things down.

  12. #292
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The same place the data exists that banning customers who break the rules would cause the game to shut down.
    So both claims have equal credibility . . . none.

  13. #293
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    And your data to back this claim comes from where?

    Last night was a ghost-town. Not sure if people on time-out had anything to do with it or not. No intelligent person wants to play on an empty server (this is not a slight at Wayfinder, i swear).

    Besides, I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun.
    I don't need data and don't try to push what I experience as fact. People can believe me or not, it won't change how I think.

    DDOs population decline is not a direct link to exploiting. There are many reasons why and the forums are full of them.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzor View Post
    2) Either this is a big deal or it isn't. To be honest, yes it affects certain things, but in many ways this actually equalizes rare items for those who are not already insanely wealthy/good at the game. I don't see how it hurts me if I join a random PUG and someone who has played for 2 weeks has a black dragonscale robe. That means they are more likely to contribute to the group, and more likely to have fun. If they were kicking around in +3 leather armor of fire guard, and died in the first wave, do you think they would have more fun? Everyone likes to feel good, and having better gear helps. Yes, the wealthy get wealthier, but I'm happy to see more people geared up. Who knows, maybe they'll have more fun and stick around the game? (Side note: This is the same reason I'm pre-heroic ED use. Because it's more fun, and isn't that why we play this game? Does it kill me if a new toon which stoned their first life uses cocoon on their frenzied barbarian? It means I'm not lugging a soul stone, and they're having a blast cleaving enemies.) So, is it a big deal? If yes, then it should have been treated as such from the start. If it's not, then why is everyone up in arms?

    5) I agree. I think forum interaction is good, but what I've seen is alot of talking about how we all get along, but they still release half-done projects loaded with bugs. The near randgen lootgear was admitted to be half-done when released. How would it hurt anyone for them to spend another month on it and finish it? It's not like it was fixing something which was broken. Same with any other number of bugs (which everyone has their own pet peeves). I don't expect every release will be bug-free, but I do expect them to be fixed in a timely manner. I lead alot of pugs, and even new players are commenting on debilitating lag, and asking me "is this how such and such is supposed to be, it seems broken." When even new players, who never visit the forums and get jaded here, notice then the game has issues. At the end of the day, actions speak louder than words, and in many people's minds Turbine is doing nothing more than words.
    2: i think the main damage has been to players that are plat capped and have invested their wealth in rare items. that wealth will crash if the duped items aren't deleted and yeah, i can see that upsetting people. i am assuming there are several different severities of exploiting, from duping a few items to finish some dragon scale off to flooding the ASAH with stacks of 100 flawless scales. i'd be surprised if any players with large investments in items joined in with the mass duping as they would only be devaluing their own wealth (ok, i'm sure some did, but it looks like a false economy to me). your point about PUG members being better geared and the points we've already gone over are why i'm undecided if a server shutdown would have been the right thing to do. for me in my little game world this exploit won't actually affect me, though i'm sure it will have hurt some of the vets i play with that are plat capped. so on a personal level i'm glad the servers stayed open as i'm having a ton of fun getting my mechanic back to lvl20 at the moment. the big deal is really down to turbine, it's cheating and it's up to turbine to make a stand against cheating. if once the bans are over the items are still there then i think turbine will have only made the game worse when it comes to exploiters running rampant.

    5: what surprised me was seeing someone in the open trade channel asking for information on how to use the exploit, now that is a sign the community as a whole is completely uninterested in playing by the rules. as for lag, turbine do seem to be taking the typical approach of only trying to optimise the code. it's an important step and often the first to take, but a bit more thinking outside the box could really help. excuse me while i don a dusty fanboi cap. CCP on the other hand have shown true innovation in their battle vs the lag monster. i'd love to see turbine follow some of their steps in the never ending war against lag. the 2 companies have slightly different problems to tackle, in turbines favour they have the FPS style controls to deal with which generate far more information than eve's point and click. on the flip side CCP have not split their game into many different worlds so they have just the 1 server farm for (almost) all the world (think there were some legal issues which prompted a new world just for china). so while turbine just have to manage a few thousands connections per server farm CCP are servicing about 50K players logged on at the same time. click and point or not they have had a PvP battle that was lag free at 3 thousand players, though it was a lag fest initially when there were 4 thousand players. when i last played having 700 players "in town", ie not in active combat, would lag a whole instance out, now they can cope with 3K players slugging it out in combat!

    one big innovation there that could be applied to DDO is "time dilation". if you've ever played the jedi-knight games in single player it is a bit like force speed. the game slows down while you as a player get to keep thinking and reacting at normal speed. so while your character is only moving in slow motion you'd see the archer let loose and arrow and be able to start moving out of the way long before you would at real time. it's a trick to fight the lag monster that actually benefits the player and hinders the monsters. the benefit is the slow mo gives the servers more time to crunch all the numbers. so as server stress rises time dilation slowly ramps up to keep the servers responsive. i think TiDi tends to run about 1-2% on a normal day with 10% slowdown quite rare. in the case of the 4K slug fest TiDi ramped right up to 90%, but hey, that battle was rare enough to make the news.

    so yeah, i'd love to see turbine up their game, not to match the rest of the industry (which they seem to be fairly close to) but to take those bold steps out in front as they did with their version of FTP (which the industry since copied)
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  15. #295
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    On the other hand, if the company has gotten to the point where it's afraid to enforce its own rules, then THAT would be a reason to shut things down.
    Malarky.

    The only thing that matters is "will disciplinary action have and affect on the bottom-line?"

    This is not a growing game, the odds of it becoming a growing game again are slim to none (0% with it's current direction). Banning every player who partook (wow . . . according to spell-check that's actually a word) in shenanigans in this case would lead to an empty and dull game, it would kill it.

    I don't want a dead game.

    Put 'em in time out, take their stuff. it's appropriate. The inquisition is not.

  16. #296
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    If 40% of the player of the player base partake in the exploit in one way or the other, ban them all? Might as well shut down DDO. Again real world is different.
    If you dont might as well shut er down anyhow. Its likely that it didnt start at 40% - but that over time more and more people started exploiting due to lack of action/lack of deterrent. If nothing is done, or if token 7 day bans are handed out and players are just playing second accounts until the ban on their primary is lifted, then this results in more people duping mass items for free rather than paying for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    Tell me what lessons people learnt from the Mabar ban? People will continue to exploit if the mechanism is there.
    More if nothing is done about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    The culture of exploit is there because Turbine doesn't take proactive action. Bugs/exploit reported in Lamnia and guess what, made it to live. So what does that tell people? This exploit was reported. And people post crazy AH activities in the forum. But thread got deleted and everything kept hush hush with no action. The exploit has been posted on the Internet. What does that tell the players about Turbine?
    Taking proactive action, while needed, eliminates the one exploit, the current symptom. Taking reactive action, banning those who do exploit, eliminates the root cause in the community for the issue, as well as puts a deterrent in place for others who were on the fence. People are trying to act like if Turbine leaves the door open people cant be blamed for taking advantage. Its moronic for Turbine to leave the door open, but people can still be held accountible for taking advantage. Failing to do so does more damage in the long run. It would be interesting to see how many of these folks took part in other exploits over the years. Its not a brand new crop of people each time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    Putting the horse ahead of the cart does squat if the cart's wheels are broken. Fix the cart first.
    Income is needed to fix the cart. Might have been in the black if there was a deterrent to exploiting. Ironic that when Ive been arguing over the past 24 months or so that more focus needs to be put on the game, many of the same people are disagreeing with me, and now they are talking about how more focus needs to be put on the game proactively - go figure.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #297
    Community Member Annihilyght's Avatar
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    Not sure what the point is in responding to you seriously since you always end up just saying "don't listen to me anyway" but what the heck...

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post

    The only thing that matters is "will disciplinary action have and affect on the bottom-line?"
    And the problem is that people only look at the lost revenue from banned cheaters in making that assessment, rather than also considering how much revenue is lost by players leaving due to the effects of cheating not being taken seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    This is not a growing game, the odds of it becoming a growing game again are slim to none (0% with it's current direction). Banning every player who partook (wow . . . according to spell-check that's actually a word) in shenanigans in this case would lead to an empty and dull game, it would kill it.

    I don't want a dead game.
    Because it's not a growing game, Turbine has a choice to make: it can cater to a community of players who care about following its rules and who want a positive community, or it can cater to a community of players who do not. Which would net them more money, only they know. But it can't have them both.

    DDO already has the smell of death about it, something that becomes obvious the more time you spend looking at other games. The suggestion that Turbine should ignore its own rules for fear of losing money from exploiters is just one more manifestation of the odor.

  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKalbSun View Post
    So you didn't cheat because you were scared of repurcussions, not because of any morals you may or may not have. Morals aren't regulated by
    weather or not other people get away with cheating. Morals and integrity come from the individual. Some people have neither. So I don't get this
    post. I do get why you don't like paladins though.
    Nope. I havent cheated because:

    1. I havent seen any point in cheating - I believed, based on previous experience with other games, that when duping occurs, server rollback follows.
    2. I generally see cheating in multiplayer and not among close friends a bad taste (my monday tabletops are fun :-) ). Mainly because it hurts those that dont cheat. So, and from your tone I belive you will not like my response and possibly not believe it (which I dont care about), I havent cheated out of human decency.

    But this post is about simple thing - I am NOT taking moral highgroud here. what I am doing here:

    I am asking if I interpreted morals based by the ingame culture of DDO wrongly here.

    I simply believed that duping is THE worst "crime" in MMOs in generall and its not only against the rules, but its actually moraly wrong as well (as it destabilizes the game and one cannot escape it, unlike the ED bug). Yet I dont see any punishement layed on anybody, neither I heard about any and all dupers I personally know of are enjoying their fortune.
    Those are dupers across all servers except for Wayfinder (I dont know anyone on Wayfinder becaouse.... well, it wayfinder), so its not issue of: Devs havent got to that server yet. By that, i can only assume that Turbine is either extremely slow or doesnt care. If they dont really care, then it is okay - in which case, if it is normal and many ppl are doing it, I am not gonna hurt anyone by doing so as well (as my personal action wont matter, if 20% of the server is duping, it is pretty much pointless not to duplicate because I dont want to negatively affect someone who is negatively affected already) and I will, ofc, want to do it as well next time.

    To put it in two sentences:

    I thought it would be unfair and wrong (and pointless) to cheat. Since I dont see any actions taken against anybody who did, I now think it was unfair and wrong (and pointless) not to cheat, because i wrongly assumed that morals in this game are set differently then they really are.

    I am not dissapointed by that (well, maybe a little), I just want to be clear howshould I behave next time.

    and about morals:

    Morals are definitely based on other people behavior. Moral integrity and moral upholding comes, of course, from every individual.

    And paladins are garbage, of course.

  20. #300
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    As to the exploits.. who cares...at the end of the day its just a game.

    wah.. economy is detroyed.. BS ecomomies rise and fall like the ocean tides.
    wah.. my stuff isnt worth as much anymore.. so what.. you had more stuff than you needed or looted stuff for greed trade instead of giving to someone who couuld use it?
    wah.. exploiters are selling stuff on the AH and devaluing stuff... Stuff that was over priced anyway.. so what...
    wah.. exploiters have broken the game.. how? . did you stop running quests, did you stop playing for fun? ... No.. game carries on.
    wah.. exploiters got more stuff than I do.. So what, doesnt stop me from running quests to earn my stuff.
    wah.. exploiters are selling stuff on the AS auction house... so what AS auction house is a Turbine mafia cashgrab.. 30% cut is criminal... Dont need AS to play the game.
    None of this personal stuff is what is being argued. Im looking at it from a business standpoint. Its preven now that lack of action on issues causes the degree to which people will exploit to ramp up, considerably. If they continue to not care, which is what you are advocating, the degree will only compound until no one needs to pay for anything anymore. All the personal stuff is mere justification anyhow....

    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    DDO is the exploiter,
    didnt get me back my GS weapon that became a throwing item in Abbott. .. bug reported.. no response.
    didnt get me back my ingredient bag with the shared bank lag bug.. bug reported.. no response
    didnt get back my missing mail when the servers went down for a week. got some BS about the mail not being a storage medium. stuff is still gone..
    currently have missing WOP weapons missing on my artificer after the retroactive loot update.. they are just gone... no response to bug report.
    didnt get my 40th end rewards on my main in CITW and FOT due to the FU on completions calculations.. said it was fixed.. still didnt get my rewards got garbage list..
    20th end rewards for CITW and FOT i ran on alts no longer hae +5 tome option .. only seeing +3 to +4 upgrade Skill tomes.. WT#$%... took Tales of Valor..
    didn't fix items that were broken without costing me something (epic crafted broken items), and yet retoractivly changed things that gave unintentional bonusses.
    Screwed my hard erned items into nerfdom.. Ornamental Daggers for instance.. Farmed those til my eyes bled and then the destroyer of loot dev screwed them...

    IF DDO actually gave an effort to keep me balanced to where I should be and fixed the issues as I came accross them and didnt screw with my precious earned loot I would probably care more about reporting inintended advantages that people come across.
    You continued playing after all that happened to you? Thats why Turbine gets away with it.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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