Page 9 of 25 FirstFirst ... 567891011121319 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 497
  1. #161
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Actually you don't know how they implemented items unless you've decompiled their code, or seen it prior to compilation. You also don't know the level, nor depth of their logging. You can infer, in some cases, they logical delete things (because some things they can bring back), and in others, they physically delete them (in many cases they cannot). No software system ever built keeps perfect records. There are choices made, corners cut, and frankly way to much data generated to keep a perfect history of life eternal unless you're the NSA. Building software that creates a vast and easily accessible historical record is not the least bit interesting to most feature developers, because it does nothing more than extend their project and is rarely supported by management unless they're talked into it. It only appeals to analytics junkies, and there are few of us in existence (who obviously aren't working for the government). The idea you know their code unless you cop to seeing it, because you've industry experience, is laughable. I've seen my competitors products internals in my industry, with way more resources than gaming companies would ever hope to have, and they're as different from mine and each other's software as a bird is from a snake. Just because something nominally provides the same features, doesn't mean anything with regards to the to underlying design premises and the code that sprung from those.
    I get thuis "you dont know Turbines code" stuff each time I post how something could be done in a mundane fashion, and I grin each time I see it, because understanding the same statement, the person posting such must realize that anything they posted about how hard it would be also no logic to refute what I stated, or any basis to disagree with me, due to same said statement. Its a vague attempt based on lack of evidence to dismiss aall credibility in an argument they are not winning.

    What is not being understood is that one does not need access to Turbines code in order to understand that datafarming is not the daunting task those trying to justify what has happened over the past week say it is. Ive owned this situation lock stock and two smoking barrels in the past, as I was the one doing the datamining. Of course, those wanting to still disagree will state that because it wasnt Turbines code you were datamining you still cannot state it would be easy to do in Turbines code. Anyone waging this argument is gravely mistaken, and the more passionate their posts become in trying to deny that any tangible evidence could be found, the more suspect the reason they would take said position becomes.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    I don't care what people think morally of the situation, so the point you're trying to make on user behavior after the fact isn't even the least bit interesting to me. People take advantage. Congrats, you've provided zero additional insight into something any half awake observer could see in an untold number of markets. Welcome to the real world, one where a portion of any system's users will always do whatever a system allows, regardless of the system. If a developer thinks some nominal agreement stops them, they should quit now and go serve burgers. The same applies if a developer doesn't care about how users are abusing your system. I build and design secure systems, and the idea I would ever trust someone on the other end to follow a policy is ludicrous beyond belief, and would get people laughed out of a shop.
    More justification. Cute. The agreement doesnt stop them. The enforcement of said agreement will deter most if done properly. If it is not enforced and has a history of such, its easy to see the justification those who dont follow policy use to not do so - no one is doing anythign about it anyhow. So yes, the policy of deafening silence is in question.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    Your only option as a company who delivers softwares systems to customers is to back up your usage policy with actual secure code. You somehow doubt this? I suppose you think banks shouldn't bother locking their vaults, or even build a vault, I mean, so long as they comminucate to their customers not to steal and they will be punished. Cause obviously they are smarter than all their customers, PhDs in behavioral science to boot, and perfect implementors of punishment. Maybe you have a point, I mean, it wasn't like anyone tried to steal when we used to promptly hang cattle thieves, oh wait. Why don't we take the same general approach for secure comms? We'll just put faith in our swift and certain justice system.
    No. Im saying if someone robbed an unlocked vault, they are still guilty of committing the same crime as robbing a locked vault. The bank being complete idiots and not locking their vault does not justify the crime of robbery.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    If their back end isn't so daunting how come their code is ****?
    Its not the code thats in question. The task of datamining for specific events over a specific timeframe, and then ruling out specific other events in the same timeframe, is not daunting at all. Now that they know what to look for 75% of the work is done already.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    How come this problem, a problem they already got burned by extensively, burned them again? You know why it burned them again, because their software development cycle is ****. Any process auditing firm worth paying would tell you that flat out. Doesn't matter what their QA policy is, if you get burned twice by the same major issue, and didn't have a test to catch it before go live, you're incompetent.
    What that likely means is that they used old code known to not have an issue they were looking to fix, to fix said issue and using that code reintroduced an old issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    The software development cycle is owned by developers, and if they're too weak to know how to implement a solid one, they're too weak to be trusted. Maybe their buggy as hell code is just a false flag operation and they've really got really well designed data structures and verbose logging that would put the romance languages to shame. Maybe the moon is made of cheese.
    Or maybe youre justifying people violating the rules based on your pointing out that their system isnt perfect. Apply this to anything in the real world and see how rediculous that logic becomes.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    How come their hotfix isn't really a fix at all, and now either it's broke elsewhere or it's still an issue? The launcher itself essentially says "we're broken, please don't try this" on the front page (granted their launcher code is bugged so I don't even see it because the scrollbar positions itself on a message halfway down everytime I start it). They've had two updates since the problem surface, now three, and where was this fix on the first two? You think they held it back because they wanted to create a honey trap for all the exploiters? Ingenious Turbine, and also 100% false.
    Still not justification to exploit, even though some think it is. No matter how much you think they suck, you can still be the better person and choose to not take advantage of their exploitable system - something you agreed to when you created your account.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    You're quite possibly the biggest software developer apologist I've ever read. Go read thedaily***. You think somehow mgmt is holding everyone down, and if only they'd get their act together the little developers could let their lights and talents shine. Pure apologencia.
    This right here, puts any knowledge you claim to have regarding the industry, into question...forget into question...it flat out refutes any claim to said knowledge. If you believe the devs are the ones making all the time allocations, priority decisions, road map and time line decisions, then you just lost all cred. Not only did you just refute any claim to knowledge of the industry you may possibly be able to make, but you are attempting to justify the actions of those who signed an agreement and then turned around and violated said agreement, by using the logic that if the system is exploitable it should be exploited.

    If you believe Im being a dev apologist, youre also dead wrong. If you even made yourself one iota familiar with my posting history, youd see how wrong you are on this. My stance is that if one agrees to not exploit, no amount of corporate incompetance justifies violating the agreement to not exploit. If you truly believe their situation was as bad as you claim, you would not be playing the game in the first place, and are only making a mountain out of a mole hill to attempt to justify players signing an agreement, then violating the agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    I don't care why other people are mad, I don't even care about the people who did dupe, or who didn't. I don't care about their behavior, their excuses, their feelings, or their justifications. I ain't got time for that, nor interest. People gonna do, what people gonna do, to the extent you let them. What I do care about is the mechanics of software development, and that's it. Call it a long held professional interest in forcing good practices on the software world I interact with and I'm more than happy to push/prod/force developers/companies into other lines of work because they build steaming piles of ****. I'm simply pointing out Turbine has a pitiful excuse for a software development cycle, policies be damned. That's a fact, and my professional diagnosis.
    And my stance is even if you could prove 100% that Turbines software dev mechanics are a pitiful excuse, that still doesnt justify exploitation of their system after agreeing not to.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #162
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post

    What is not being understood is that one does not need access to Turbines code in order to understand that datafarming is not the daunting task those trying to justify what has happened over the past week say it is.
    I get that datafarming is not difficult... for you. Just as creating a working game launcher is not difficult for some people. Just as access to chest loot tables is not difficult for some people. Just as proper correct release notes are not difficult for some people. Just as "the" would be an easy splash screen to remove for some people. Just as forum communication would be easy for some people.

    Turbine can only work with the resources they have. While this may be an easy task in theory, we don't know the full extent of their process. How much time and how many people can they devote to the task? The datafarming itself may be easy, but someone has to put that data to use and that's man hours that Turbine is hesitant to give up I'm sure.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  3. #163
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I get that datafarming is not difficult... for you. Just as creating a working game launcher is not difficult for some people. Just as access to chest loot tables is not difficult for some people. Just as proper correct release notes are not difficult for some people. Just as "the" would be an easy splash screen to remove for some people. Just as forum communication would be easy for some people.

    Turbine can only work with the resources they have. While this may be an easy task in theory, we don't know the full extent of their process. How much time and how many people can they devote to the task? The datafarming itself may be easy, but someone has to put that data to use and that's man hours that Turbine is hesitant to give up I'm sure.
    Don't you know DDO has data mining experts instead of coders and QA on their small team?

  4. #164
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Waiting in the lava pits to chain trip you on the way to Prison of the Planes
    Posts
    1,507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    ...Of course, those wanting to still disagree will state that because it wasnt Turbines code you were datamining you still cannot state it would be easy to do in Turbines code. Anyone waging this argument is gravely mistaken...
    Yes, that would be my argument.

    Why is this mistaken? Is all datamining easy regardless of the quality of whatever logging systems are in place?
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    All of my builds are grossly out of date. Just roll a human or drow mechanic / assassin rogue thing.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

  5. #165
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I get thuis "you dont know Turbines code" stuff each time I post how something could be done in a mundane fashion, and I grin each time I see it, because understanding the same statement, the person posting such must realize that anything they posted about how hard it would be also no logic to refute what I stated, or any basis to disagree with me, due to same said statement. Its a vague attempt based on lack of evidence to dismiss aall credibility in an argument they are not winning.

    What is not being understood is that one does not need access to Turbines code in order to understand that datafarming is not the daunting task those trying to justify what has happened over the past week say it is. Ive owned this situation lock stock and two smoking barrels in the past, as I was the one doing the datamining. Of course, those wanting to still disagree will state that because it wasnt Turbines code you were datamining you still cannot state it would be easy to do in Turbines code. Anyone waging this argument is gravely mistaken, and the more passionate their posts become in trying to deny that any tangible evidence could be found, the more suspect the reason they would take said position becomes.



    More justification. Cute. The agreement doesnt stop them. The enforcement of said agreement will deter most if done properly. If it is not enforced and has a history of such, its easy to see the justification those who dont follow policy use to not do so - no one is doing anythign about it anyhow. So yes, the policy of deafening silence is in question.



    No. Im saying if someone robbed an unlocked vault, they are still guilty of committing the same crime as robbing a locked vault. The bank being complete idiots and not locking their vault does not justify the crime of robbery.



    Its not the code thats in question. The task of datamining for specific events over a specific timeframe, and then ruling out specific other events in the same timeframe, is not daunting at all. Now that they know what to look for 75% of the work is done already.



    What that likely means is that they used old code known to not have an issue they were looking to fix, to fix said issue and using that code reintroduced an old issue.



    Or maybe youre justifying people violating the rules based on your pointing out that their system isnt perfect. Apply this to anything in the real world and see how rediculous that logic becomes.



    Still not justification to exploit, even though some think it is. No matter how much you think they suck, you can still be the better person and choose to not take advantage of their exploitable system - something you agreed to when you created your account.



    This right here, puts any knowledge you claim to have regarding the industry, into question...forget into question...it flat out refutes any claim to said knowledge. If you believe the devs are the ones making all the time allocations, priority decisions, road map and time line decisions, then you just lost all cred. Not only did you just refute any claim to knowledge of the industry you may possibly be able to make, but you are attempting to justify the actions of those who signed an agreement and then turned around and violated said agreement, by using the logic that if the system is exploitable it should be exploited.

    If you believe Im being a dev apologist, youre also dead wrong. If you even made yourself one iota familiar with my posting history, youd see how wrong you are on this. My stance is that if one agrees to not exploit, no amount of corporate incompetance justifies violating the agreement to not exploit. If you truly believe their situation was as bad as you claim, you would not be playing the game in the first place, and are only making a mountain out of a mole hill to attempt to justify players signing an agreement, then violating the agreement.



    And my stance is even if you could prove 100% that Turbines software dev mechanics are a pitiful excuse, that still doesnt justify exploitation of their system after agreeing not to.

    Y'all two know you're the only ones reading these hugenormous, detailed posts, right?

    As the great philosopher, Zozi, said: "Brevity, m'boy!"

  6. #166
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    Yes, that would be my argument.

    Why is this mistaken? Is all datamining easy regardless of the quality of whatever logging systems are in place?
    Not all datamining.

    In this situation, yes its easy, because they know what they are looking for, and how to replicate the situation. Isolating creation of items by said means other than how they are regularly generated in game just had most variables eliminated from the equation.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #167
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I get that datafarming is not difficult... for you. Just as creating a working game launcher is not difficult for some people. Just as access to chest loot tables is not difficult for some people. Just as proper correct release notes are not difficult for some people. Just as "the" would be an easy splash screen to remove for some people. Just as forum communication would be easy for some people.

    Turbine can only work with the resources they have. While this may be an easy task in theory, we don't know the full extent of their process. How much time and how many people can they devote to the task? The datafarming itself may be easy, but someone has to put that data to use and that's man hours that Turbine is hesitant to give up I'm sure.
    Sure, and how much work they choose to put into that will likely reflect on how much people take exploitation of the system seriously in the future. If they do the work and set the example, it can stand as a deterrant to those who comtemplate exploiting in the future. If they do not, combined with the history of deafening silence on these issues in the past, might encourage folks who are on the fence to take advantage even though they agreed not to. Whats the integrity of the entity that pays their bills worth? I doubt they are that hesitant, they are just less transparent than other MMO companies on the same front.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #168
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    Even my 4 yr old knows better than to do many things that are not allowed despite being fun/rewarding, like drawing on her walls with crayons, I think she learned that at 2 yrs old. Cant the players in this game attempt to be as responsible as a 2 yr old at least? Cause and effect, grow up. Take it like a man (an adult).
    Excellent example. These people would tell you you can't punish the 4-year old because it's your fault for giving her crayons and not locking her in a chair 6 feet from a wall.

    The adults in this conversation say, "There are rules, and if you break them, there are consequences." A 4-year old can learn that... Half the people in these threads have not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  9. #169
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The sheer level of justification after the fact is cute. You think the people who took advantage are the big spenders? Probability of that approaches 0%. The wallet elite simply buy what they want. You also must realize that many users have been refraining from paying into the system until Turbine starts doing things the right way. Offloading folks who refuse to adhere to the digital agreement they signed is a good first step in making the game environment a better situation for those who adhere to the agreement they signed.
    Exactly.. you think I'm going to spend any money on Astral shards anytime soon?

    Not until this gets fixed.

    Turbine lost a ton of money in the last few weeks... I almost traded an Otto's Box for a Globe a while back...

    Think anyone is going to do that anytime soon? Dozens (if not hundreds) of people who might have bought a rare item on the ASAH for Astral Shards (i.e. real money) now either picked it up cheap this weekend, or is scared to buy anything...

    Seriously... the people who exploited cost Turbine thousands of dollars... I think Turbine is moronic to keep them around... because they WILL do it again...

    QA team also needs to learn about unit tests. A real QA team tests for old bugs in every new release. Turbine's QA absolutely sucks if this is the same bug that occurred years ago. I take it back if it's a new bug.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  10. #170
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Sure, and how much work they choose to put into that will likely reflect on how much people take exploitation of the system seriously in the future. If they do the work and set the example, it can stand as a deterrant to those who comtemplate exploiting in the future. If they do not, combined with the history of deafening silence on these issues in the past, might encourage folks who are on the fence to take advantage even though they agreed not to. Whats the integrity of the entity that pays their bills worth? I doubt they are that hesitant, they are just less transparent than other MMO companies on the same front.
    As I mentioned in my post, Turbine could try a lot harder at a great many things. This is just the most recent example of how a lack of effort is paying off in destructive ways for the company. Yes, they should take exploits seriously, but they should also take their entire game more seriously. They are weak in many areas currently and it shows.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  11. #171
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Sure, and how much work they choose to put into that will likely reflect on how much people take exploitation of the system seriously in the future. If they do the work and set the example, it can stand as a deterrant to those who comtemplate exploiting in the future. If they do not, combined with the history of deafening silence on these issues in the past, might encourage folks who are on the fence to take advantage even though they agreed not to. Whats the integrity of the entity that pays their bills worth? I doubt they are that hesitant, they are just less transparent than other MMO companies on the same front.
    Much better.

  12. #172
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    ...QA team also needs to learn about unit tests. A real QA team tests for old bugs in every new release. Turbine's QA absolutely sucks if this is the same bug that occurred years ago. I take it back if it's a new bug.
    well,
    1) it's not a new bug
    2) would YOU have had a test built to attempt the arcane set of UI/mouse movements required to exploit this?

    I LOVE bashing the lack of foresight of Turbine, but tell me you (Thrudh - not talking to anyone else) woulda thought to create a test with that combination of keys, clicks, etc.

  13. #173
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sandy, UT
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Excellent example. These people would tell you you can't punish the 4-year old because it's your fault for giving her crayons and not locking her in a chair 6 feet from a wall.

    The adults in this conversation say, "There are rules, and if you break them, there are consequences." A 4-year old can learn that... Half the people in these threads have not.
    I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for turbine to punish the 4 year old...

    They kind of have a history of not. doing. that.

    Anyone remember the last inventory exploit they left in the game for 6 months and decided not to even waste time trying to fix it?
    Proud member of Renowned, Thelanis server.

  14. #174
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,024

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    As I mentioned in my post, Turbine could try a lot harder at a great many things. This is just the most recent example of how a lack of effort is paying off in destructive ways for the company. Yes, they should take exploits seriously, but they should also take their entire game more seriously. They are weak in many areas currently and it shows.
    Yes I do agree that Turbine needs to do a better job with the quality of the game. It definitely shows when every update something breaks. I can understand all these years of coding can be tricky, which is why I believe they need to suck it up and do a major quality of life.

  15. #175

    Default Editing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauthaag View Post
    sorry for mistakes, but if it takes couple minutes and editing tool wont open, i wont bother
    I find that if you click the button nothing happens for a very long time but if you right click and say open in new tab its pretty much instantaneous.

  16. #176
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Excellent example. These people would tell you you can't punish the 4-year old because it's your fault for giving her crayons and not locking her in a chair 6 feet from a wall.

    The adults in this conversation say, "There are rules, and if you break them, there are consequences." A 4-year old can learn that... Half the people in these threads have not.
    It's more like "Why you making a fuss, the walls not even fully painted, the border is peeling off, if your walls looked clean, neat, and finished, I might understand, but really, you can even see where you screwed up the Spackle job, the freaking junction is cracking, and OMG there are nails sticking out and rusting, and you have the audacity to worry about some stupid crayon marks? What's wrong with you!"

  17. #177
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    It's more like "Why you making a fuss, the walls not even fully painted, the border is peeling off, if your walls looked clean, neat, and finished, I might understand, but really, you can even see where you screwed up the Spackle job, the freaking junction is cracking, and OMG there are nails sticking out and rusting, and you have the audacity to worry about some stupid crayon marks? What's wrong with you!"
    Nice one.

  18. #178
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    It's more like "Why you making a fuss, the walls not even fully painted, the border is peeling off, if your walls looked clean, neat, and finished, I might understand, but really, you can even see where you screwed up the Spackle job, the freaking junction is cracking, and OMG there are nails sticking out and rusting, and you have the audacity to worry about some stupid crayon marks? What's wrong with you!"
    Yeah but in that case its more about the kid and getting them to learn whats appropriate...........yeah the walls at home are...........but what if you take her to grandma and grandpa's house and she then draws all over their pristine walls? "Daddy lets me do this at home"......


    lol yeah im going off topic here.


    Anyway hasn't there been many, many examples in history where people have/did break the law and the authorities looked the other way because........of the circumstances? They needed the people who where breaking the law, commiting crimes some of them very serious so they would of been putting themselves in a bad position to punish them or hold them accountable so *blind eye*. This **** happens in the real world all the time. The laws are not always *enforced*, agreements are not always honoured, and they are often brushed under the table, what you should do and what you *can* do are often two very different things. Sometimes the *law* is used as an *unjust* weapon.

    and im going off topic again.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 10-09-2013 at 06:10 PM.

  19. #179
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Yeah but in that case its more about the kid and getting them to learn whats appropriate...........yeah the walls at home are...........but what if you take her to grandma and grandpa's house and she then draws all over their pristine walls? "Daddy lets me do this at home"......


    lol yeah im going off topic here.


    Anyway hasn't there been many, many examples in history where people have/did break the law and the authorities looked the other way because........of the circumstances? They needed the people who where breaking the law, commiting crimes some of them very serious so they would of been putting themselves in a bad position to punish them or hold them accountable so *blind eye*. This **** happens in the real world all the time. The laws are not always *enforced*, agreements are not always honoured, and they are often brushed under the table, what you should do and what you *can* do are often two very different things. Sometimes the *law* is used as an *unjust* weapon.

    and im going off topic again.
    What service is it that the exploiters were serving again? Are they witnesses to worse crimes? Are they in witness protection for testifying against somebody else for other, bigger exploits? No? They're "innocent victims"? They deserve whatever they get, and some will likely deserve more than they get.

  20. #180
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Yeah but in that case its more about the kid and getting them to learn whats appropriate...........yeah the walls at home are...........but what if you take her to grandma and grandpa's house and she then draws all over their pristine walls? "Daddy lets me do this at home"......


    lol yeah im going off topic here.
    LOL, yah, but Grandma has pristine walls because she hides the crayons really, really.. well.

Page 9 of 25 FirstFirst ... 567891011121319 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload