Page 2 of 25 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 497
  1. #21
    Community Member Melt-emi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Post #13: morality mentioned in relation to video games. Duping items compared to murdering your wife.

    What a monster... Electric chair for the thief!!

  2. #22
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,710

    Default caaaaahhhhhhnnnnn!z!

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Post #13: morality mentioned in relation to video games. Duping items compared to murdering your wife.
    Could it be any more obvious the morality i was referring to had nothing to do with the offenses?

    I purposely chose an entirely non related and severe offense so that everyone would realise the i was not comparing these.

    Ill bet you can figure it out if you try.

  3. #23
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Post #13: morality mentioned in relation to video games. Duping items compared to murdering your wife.
    Both are the biggest possible crimes in their respective environments. If even the biggest crime in the game is left unpunished, what kind of precedence does that create? There's responsibilities on two sides: Turbine should try to create a cheat free environment, while players should have the courtesy not to cheat.

  4. #24
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,710

    Default yay

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Both are the biggest possible crimes in their respective environments. If even the biggest crime in the game is left unpunished, what kind of precedence does that create? There's responsibilities on two sides: Turbine should try to create a cheat free environment, while players should have the courtesy not to cheat.
    Precisely, and the code is as much to blame for your exploiting as the kitchen knife is for stabbing.

    Or your biology is for public indecency...

    Talk about lame excuses to do assinine ****.

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g4b3 View Post
    First of all, every toon shud be saved every 2 weeks, keeping multiple toon data, they would be deleted/overwritten every 2 or 3 months to not use up much space for the servers. This would allow toon-roll-back for admins in case of exploiters, also allowing players to be redeemed and not perma-banned. Even if banned, too long bans will create empty servers, so make bans 1 day up to 30 days.
    Also introduce server bans. Aka you get banned from the server(s) you exploited and or cheated on. This way other servers can still enjoy you, while you have an ample of time to think about what is it like to play Korthos again with a first lifer adventurer build toon.

    That said, think about this ban/punishment system, way better than the biased "oh well this is less exploit than the other so punish them appropriately" that doesnt work. Also rich (rich- in- real- life) players pretty often buy pets then sell them on shard or AH for good amount of cash. This pay- to- win mechanic already created a huge leap towards degrading player morale and getting people to exploit.

    It is time for Turbine to change its policy. Where raid-wipes occured due to servers unable to handle festival event instances and many raid instances at once they never took/take responsiliblity just say "sh*t happens" so it would be a good time to think about all this: If players can mess with you and so does the corporation mess with them, probably it would be a good time to start solving issues with our brains with much clever solutions than that are implemented currently.

    I have spoken.
    You make it sound like exploiting is beyond the control of the players that do it. Tell player they will get the slap on the wrist you suggest and they will choose to exploit. Tell them they will be banned and the only one's the games loses to those bans are the one's to uninterested in the game, or to stupid to figure out to not do so.

    It's not a matter of punishment to fit the crime, which is generally a bad idea as it just promotes doing small crimes, but of punishment that is severe enough to convince people to not even think about committing the crime. They should worry less about what's fair and more about what's likely to work.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g4b3 View Post
    Even if banned, too long bans will create empty servers, so make bans 1 day up to 30 days.
    Empty servers??

    You say that like 50% of the server population was exploiting this duping bug.

    In my opinion
    If all the exploiters get perma banned you would not even notice it.
    + It would be very healthy for the game itself.
    People who exploit do other bad stuff too.
    Wayfinder: Drache-V26, Taragon-V4 Quarterstaff-Bot, Iridal-Cleric, Xar-Level 4 Mule


  7. #27
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nr Stratford, England
    Posts
    349

    Default

    My opinion is if it's in the game it's WAI. It's Turbine's job to fix things not the players to stop playing the game. Never heard anything so ludicrous as to ban players from playing a game.

    Morality
    If a truck crashed outside your house and spilled money everywhere.
    What would you do?
    Just awestruck, wether it be a Dragon flying overhead Stormreach, that glowing character who just zoomed in'n'out of the Pub, or that i can drink a Beholder under the table and best of all rescuing Damsels in distress.

  8. #28
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    You make it sound like exploiting is beyond the control of the players that do it. Tell player they will get the slap on the wrist you suggest and they will choose to exploit. Tell them they will be banned and the only one's the games loses to those bans are the one's to uninterested in the game, or to stupid to figure out to not do so.

    It's not a matter of punishment to fit the crime, which is generally a bad idea as it just promotes doing small crimes, but of punishment that is severe enough to convince people to not even think about committing the crime. They should worry less about what's fair and more about what's likely to work.
    Your argument is even socially nonsense. IRL if you used grass u could get the same punishment as a hard drug dealer.
    It only fills jails with kids. Stupid conservative method. If you wanna avoid crime, then do not put 16 year olds among 40 year old hard-line criminals. Simple.

    The issue here depends on how they item-log-track the exploiters. Using alt acc to dup (unbound) items would probably save some1 from any punishment. If a guy accidentally commited the exploit act overall 2-3 times in the last 1-2 weeks, he may not be an exploiter. Exploits are discovered by accident. And thus can occasionally happen by accident as well.

    Im also sure that those who promote serious punishment are those vips who sell ddo-store pets for money. To us f2ps or premiums thats also a huge exploitation. Yet Turbine considers that legal. Why is it legal to bend the games inner economy to a players real life money background? I sell you my 3 pets for 20 lds. Ta-daa. Is that normal, what do you think? And if its legal then hell why not simply put LDSs in ddostore? Think about it.

    It is Turbine's fault if ppl are looking for easy and fast way to earn money. They introduced this pay tp play system and the exploit-bug as well.
    Last edited by g4b3; 10-08-2013 at 06:42 AM.

  9. #29
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDM View Post
    My opinion is if it's in the game it's WAI. It's Turbine's job to fix things not the players to stop playing the game. Never heard anything so ludicrous as to ban players from playing a game.

    Morality
    If a truck crashed outside your house and spilled money everywhere.
    What would you do?
    Thankfully there are a great deal of people in the world with a different "morality" to yours...
    "Implosion: For when you just HAVE to kill every M**********R in the room"-
    (Samuel L Jackson)

    "Some are insane, and the're in charge"

    Sarlona: Mercilless, Maliciouss, Relenttless. Plus others.....

  10. #30
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDM View Post
    My opinion is if it's in the game it's WAI. It's Turbine's job to fix things not the players to stop playing the game. Never heard anything so ludicrous as to ban players from playing a game.
    If you cheat at a cardgame, people are going to be angry with you and force you to leave the game. I don't see why this can't be done in a virtual game either. Games have rules for a reason...

  11. #31
    Community Member achitophel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monte Carlo, Monaco
    Posts
    279

    Default

    I don't know much better of a response time you guys want from Turbine, this all went nuclear on the weekend (before a patch) and actions are happening already since Monday.

    It takes time to isolate a problem in code and to then fix it. Once the problem has been isolated then a patch needs to be rolled out. In the meantime bans are happening, and several have gone into effect already on Sarlona. The stop gap measure is to disable the ASAH. In real time it might seem like months to you guys, but it has really been 2 or 3 days.... Some of which was on a Sunday.

    I'm not a fanboi, but the rage and expectation in these posts is lolable.

  12. #32
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I do not know where you heard THAT from. One of the most bizarre theories I have heard in a while.
    Don't be so shocked, thanks a bit of a disagreement with Chai, I looked into MMO economies, and I was rather surprised to find that many Professional Gold Sellers look upon MMO and Online games a legitimate businesses, There are a few of them that will even tell you this up front, they report exploits, and exploiters, because people who use hacks make things harder for them to keep a higher ROI for their efforts.

    Some of them will even go so far as to explain that their ROI is contingent upon the value of the MMO they mine maintaining a sound digital currency, thus many organizations that have Selling investment into MMO's will back them up (with money if they have to) to keep the system profitable.

    I joke not, that a few of them are very open about it this as well.

  13. #33
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunklerlindwurm View Post
    Empty servers??

    You say that like 50% of the server population was exploiting this duping bug.

    In my opinion
    If all the exploiters get perma banned you would not even notice it.
    Well, I sure noticed the crowds of players standing around the bank without moving for hours at a time the past couple days...

    They need to fix the bug (a bug that I can easily see someone stumbling upon accidentally) and move on with more important things. Like some new raids, or decent high level named loot. Or fixing insta-red-alert in some of the newer EE quests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  14. #34
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by achitophel View Post
    I don't know much better of a response time you guys want from Turbine, this all went nuclear on the weekend (before a patch) and actions are happening already since Monday.

    It takes time to isolate a problem in code and to then fix it. Once the problem has been isolated then a patch needs to be rolled out. In the meantime bans are happening, and several have gone into effect already on Sarlona. The stop gap measure is to disable the ASAH. In real time it might seem like months to you guys, but it has really been 2 or 3 days.... Some of which was on a Sunday.

    I'm not a fanboi, but the rage and expectation in these posts is lolable.
    The response time was poor. That's the bottom line. It was stated in an earlier forum thread that a player tried to bring this to GM attention when wacky AH prices were seen, but it was dismissed. That was the first warning and someone in the "exploit department" should have been called asap.

    When Sarlona exploded, that was warning sign number 2 and an immediate world closure could have stopped the bleeding at the time, but again... crickets.

    When the worlds were down on Monday for maintenance, something could have been done, with extended downtime if necessary, but nothing.

    Only later Monday night did we receive word that the ASAH was down... but as far as I know, nothing has been done to stop exploiting.

    Turbine had plenty of chances here. While it is up to the players to stay in line, this is at least partly on Turbine for ignoring warning signs and letting it go on to far.

    I don't lock 30 hungry kids in a room with a chocolate cake and expect them all to sit quietly in a corner and ignore it. If they eat it, it's on me for allowing them to sit there for so long instead of charging in there and taking the cake away as soon as I learn that it is poisoned and could lead to their deaths. Yes, it's up to the kids to show some self control, but it wouldn't change the outcome in the end if they don't all walk out safely. I could have saved lives by acting quickly.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  15. #35
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    The response time was poor. That's the bottom line. It was stated in an earlier forum thread that a player tried to bring this to GM attention when wacky AH prices were seen, but it was dismissed. That was the first warning and someone in the "exploit department" should have been called asap.

    When Sarlona exploded, that was warning sign number 2 and an immediate world closure could have stopped the bleeding at the time, but again... crickets.

    When the worlds were down on Monday for maintenance, something could have been done, with extended downtime if necessary, but nothing.

    Only later Monday night did we receive word that the ASAH was down... but as far as I know, nothing has been done to stop exploiting.
    That's pretty much it.

    "Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 2:58 PM"

    That's the date/timestamp from the autoreply I got when I submitted my first bug report on this, which I did after submitting two tickets. And I may not have been the first to tell them about it.

    So it took them 2 days plus 6 hours to respond to this in any way. And they didn't do it until what, at least 15 hours after people had come to work yesterday morning?

    Knowing that this was going on, why on earth did they just bring the servers back up yesterday morning without doing anything? It's inexplicable.

    In another thread I defended Turbine against suggestions that they should have to work odd hours to do routine maintenance just because a few people didn't like downtime that inconvenienced them. But that doesn't apply to situations where a timely response matters.

    I used to work IT and I would have quit if I were forced to regularly come in at 11 pm to do maintenance. But if there was a problem the phone would ring, whenever, and I'd go deal with it. Not let it rot for 2 and a half days.

  16. #36
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelaros View Post
    It should not be possible to cheat in a computer game. If something is not WAI or is working poorly, the programmers should fix it, and if they can't they should admit their boobishness and find someone who can.
    Where is this planet that produces bug-free software? Can you take me to your leader?

    Untested bug fixes cause more bugs. Turbine has to follow a release process, including testing the fixes. That's why it takes time to fix bugs on live. In the meanwhile they have to use other means to stop the exploits - either by threatening players with disciplinary action, or by shutting down the servers.

    By the way, the terms of service you have agreed to forbid you from using exploits. No use whining or making excuses.
    Last edited by stoerm; 10-08-2013 at 07:24 AM.
    Praise the Dark Six and pass the heals to pure melees.
    Full feat tree; Cannith; change; merger; evil; win; minmaxing; FotM; deja vu; Kobolds.
    Dungeons and Dragons Online ~ Nude Song and Gnarled Onions

  17. #37
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunklerlindwurm View Post
    You remember the lightning mote exploit(artificer spell) which could render any raid boss in the game helpless?
    No, I don't. Apparently I miss out on all the good bugs. I just see the ones that screw me

  18. #38
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    Joebob after an intense arguement with his xwife grabs a kitchen knife and stabs her 37 times.

    The kitchen knife wasnt designed for stabbing but alas it was sharp and effective.

    Who should be punished? Joebob the psycho or the chinese chef who designed the knives(and made them sharp thereby allowing them to be used in an unintended way).

    Morality is just so complex.

    Gimme a break.
    Why did this suddenly remind me of the following:

    Meet Grady, a twenty-nine year old construction worker.
    After coming home from a hard day's work,
    he walks in the door of his trailer park home
    to find his wife in bed with another man.

  19. #39

    Default Temptation and trying to curb it

    I haven't played any other MMO besides DDO but I have been playing DDO since early on in 2006 and over that time a number of exploits have been encountered and addressed in one way or another. The biggest problem Turbine has with exploits is the human nature of temptation to act on those exploits. Of all the exploits that have occurred in DDO, I have never actually heard about them in game but I have seen reference to them on the forums. As a result, I have also warned my guildies about the particular exploit and to not participate in the exploit in fear of losing a friend to play with in this great game (although I don't have a large forum presence, I have always read and stayed on top of the DDO forums).

    You have to have some type of penalty installed or implemented for those folks who purposefully conduct an exploit but how severe that penalty is always complicated to determine. And even before you can implement a penalty, you need to have the ability to determine that an exploit was actually conducted purposefully. Without the knowledge on how that DDO database is constructed, the analytical tools they have to look at these discrepancies, and the ability for Turbine staff to analyze these tends, its hard to make any determination on how often exploits should be discovered or how they should be dealt with.

    However, with that said, when it comes to the ASAH, DDO Store Items, or anything else than can actually affect a players money input to the game, then Turbine should be spending as many resources as they can to look for these exploits and to establish the necessary punishments otherwise they can lose much more money. In this aspect, Turbine should make it a priority to determine these exploits, develop the tools to analyze the data, and spend the money on staff to analyze that data. The implementation of the DDO Store and Astral Shards just makes this more important now than it was in the past, at least in my mind.

  20. #40
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    453

    Default

    I wouldn't take EVE Online as a role model, they've had their share of controversy and administration failures over the years, like pretty much everyone else. It's an unfortunate part of the online game territory.

    I'm sure that most of us would hope for a strong and rapid response to any serious exploit issue,and that includes the guys running the game. I think it's more a matter of getting it done properly and promptly than of adopting any particular attitude.

Page 2 of 25 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload