Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.
Is there an estimated time frame for when the investigation will be completed? I have no idea what would go into something like this and how long it might take. I imagine after the investigation there will be a period to analyze the results and determine actions to be taken.
How long before this is all behind us?
EDIT: Deleted a portion of my reply after making a successful intelligence roll.
Last edited by Fedora1; 10-08-2013 at 11:44 AM.
Is it really that bad? So a lot of ingredients and collectibles show up on the auction house for low prices. Many more people can get better gear because of it. Toons who were gimpy are less gimpy. People who were struggling suddenly find themselves actually enjoying the game and maybe stick around a little longer rather than just getting frustrated and quitting. We start seeing more groups up in the social panel. Turbine actually increases its user base and makes more money. Tressym and Iron Defenders living in peace. What a beautiful make believe world it could be.
Who among players is getting the raw end of the deal? People who are selling the high end items on the auction house for lots of platinum or shards. It sucks to have something that was valuable monetarily and have it suddenly reduced. But if you are only playing this game to make money, you are probably missing the point anyway. Maybe you cant sell your Large Devil Scale for as much, but it is still necessary to make green steel. It's not hard to make money in this game, on the ah or shard exchange. I've made over a million plat in the last few weeks and have over 600 shards just from selling small items (and no, not through the exploit).
Most of my toons have over 4Mpp and I never sell ingredients or collectibles. Why would I sell a LDS when I might need one in the future? I recently purchased 5 LDS for 1Mpp but it doesn't bother me in the least that I could now get those 5 for nothing. As I said, I've already made back the million. I am extremely happy that lots of people are now able to make green steel without having to run the shroud 40 or 50 times. Maybe they'll enjoy the game a little more. IMO the grinding required to have anything decent is the absolute worst part of this game. I have never (in 4 years) made a single epic item using the shard, seal, scroll, AND item. To me, the grinding involved is not worth it. The drop rates are too low for most ingredients and the prices too high for most items.
So, what is the big deal? Well, anything that ends up costing Turbine real money. That is the problem that must be dealt with. I'm not a big fan of the shard system, but anything that makes Turbine money and keeps the game profitable helps us all in the long run. That is why the biggest concentration should and will be on the people who abused the shard exchange. I suspect the number of people who used this exploit is rather large. I also suspect some of the biggest guilds were involved with some long standing players. Some people might claim to quit if Turbine gives a slap on the wrist, but I guarantee you there will be far more quitters if Turbine goes overboard and takes away rightfully earned items.
Forum rules are still in effect. Going through for some clean up on isle 5 then will reopen the thread. From here on out, further personal attacks and name calling will result in steeper-than-usual infractions. You've been warned.
I mean on Sarlona when it was happening people were buying 1000's of scales, and ingredients. When people didn't realize what was happening(early last week), people were just charging what seemed like good prices for scales and were profting like crazy. I am actually doubting the duplicators were the first to put it on Sarlona's AH and ASAH because I saw people selling 100's of scales before I saw them on the AH/ASAH. I think the people who were buying from the actual duplicators started posting auctions on Sarlona, and then the dupers added their things to the AH/ASAH.
People realized this and bought scales when they were cheap on the AH (I mean 100 scales were being sold for 600k at first then spiked to a mill+) and ASAH.
These same people would sell their 1000's of scales and ingredients on the AH/ASAH for profit, but they aren't technically dupers, I'm interested to see what will happen to these people.
Of course when it spread to other servers they people who started posting were indeed duplicators.
D E S T R U C T I O N
It is also my hope that any punitive action can be targeted as closely as possible to those responsible for advertising and acting on the exploit without catching too many innocent bystanders in the dragnet. I can now say that I believe that I bought items on the exchange that were improperly obtained. I did not know that at the time. Those, like myself, that fall into this category should not , in my opinion, face the same recriminations as those that improperly created the items and advertised the methodology for doing so.
I have not read the whole thread. Have there been any bans and if so, what seems to be the criteria ?
I got broken-script banned in Mabar and I'll probably get banned for AH buying and trading for ingred stacks this time. I've already run the Shroud ~500 times... and if the AH gives me the possibility of never running the heroic version for scale grind I'm all for that. Though mostly it's just for moving around 45HP, +6 skill and perm blur... which almost isn't worth a perm gear slot at L28 anymore. I know I shouldn't have traded for a large stack of scales and AH'ed a bunch of stones... but then yellow dopant drop rate hasn't let me de-craft a single banked shroud item. I also used TP to get Astrals to buy the never falling Globe of Imperial Blood x2. TBH... I'm not sure why Turbine cancelled their money making AH given they're getting the Astrals cut... which some probably bought TP to get.
7 years has been a good run for this game. Or maybe they'll only ban until... when's the next raid come out? Feb/March? 4-month ban.
You know Tolero... a great way to maybe distract us a bit from all this unpleasantness would be some info on Epic TR or anything else coming in Update 20.
Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf
A bad act is wrong, even if it is possible to commit it. The concept of integrity would be pretty meaningless if bad acts could be made impossible to commit.
So are we debating who is to blame and whether or not people should get punished for this in this thread?
Here's my take on the whole thing;
If you cheated, big deal. It's a video game.
If you cheated and you get punished, big deal. It's a video game. You did something wrong. You knew you were doing something wrong. Accept the punishment like an adult, and move on.
If you cheated and then profited off others through trade or sale, you should hold yourself to a higher ethical standard, and should certainly have no objections to whatever punishment you receive.
If you didn't cheat and are taking this as an opportunity to convince the world of how evolved you are, please remember that you are a person that is heavily invested in playing a game full of dragons and orcs. And also, calm down. It's a video game.
It's highly doubtful that any of this lobbying for specific punishments or lobbying for there not to be punishments is going to be paid attention to. While I do love to see some of you satisfy your inexplicably large egos by debating the topic in your own patented pseudo-intellectual ways, is there really a point to all this?
Or put another way: if it's not important enough for people to express their concerns, why is it important enough for you to chastise them over it?
No, this is not like stealing in real life. But it is very much like cheating in real life. Ever seen what happens in a serious poker game when someone's been caught cheating?
Ill be honest... at first i thought it was just somone being nice on the ah.. posting stacks of 10 lds for really really cheap.. and then i started seeing more... and more.. progressivly larger stacks... for larger quantities of currency... then i found out about the duping process... yes i used it.. im not going to try to justify why i used it, or that i should get a lesser punishment over the next guy.. but i do want to stress that those who abused the ASAH to make a shard profit should get a much heftier punishment, as their crime was far greater than duplicating 1s and 0s.. they were getting peoples hard earned money because they too seen the great deals and went... i can afford that.. and went to buy AS to purchase the stacks for semi cheap... My intentions were simple enough.. to give to noobs from korthos once they attained lvl 13 the ability to not grind out shroud for weeks on end to get materials for their first GS... did i cheat by using an exploit.. yes... should i be perma banned... i think not.. but thats for turbine to decide
I've made the dragons and orcs comment (or something similar to it) more than once recently. Both times it was not an attempt to say that exploiting is trivial. Both times it was said directly in response to people in these threads claiming to possess a special kind of maturity, and both times it was misconstrued. I can see now that I should have more specifically stated that I was commenting on how a few specific people were posting. My post was too vague and I didn't copy in any of the posts that it was partially a response to.
Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 10-08-2013 at 01:13 PM.
"So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood
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