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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelaros View Post
    I am very disturbed by the turn DDO has taken recently. Players being banned for exploits is wrong. If something is not working as intended, it is Turbine's responsibility to fix it.

    This isn't like stealing from an unlocked but closed grocery store. That is against the rules of society (a.k.a. the law).

    The rules of DDO are programmed into the game. My brother once said "How do you cheat at a computer game?" Short of hacking I would say that you can't. What qualifies as an 'exploit/cheat' is a matter of opinion. I have met players who consider artificers and/or other casters to be an exploit/cheat. The line between exploit/cheat and being a good player who uses the rules well is subjective.
    Absolutely disagree. Exploiting the game is cheating, and this was such a blatant exploit it's not even funny. There is no blurry line on this one, if you think that you are just naive. Just because an exploit is discovered, it doesn't give the right to people to exploit it. If you decide to exploit you do it at your own peril. Don't whine now that you have to face the consequences.
    Last edited by Mystera; 10-08-2013 at 07:38 AM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I'll take the bet that that will happen.
    I doubt there's anyone risking to bet against you.

    I suppose bans have to be entered by hand after going through long logs of transactions where the character/account is just a number.
    So imagine someone mixing numbers up while entering the ID to be banned.
    Of course it's going to happen. It is inevitable.

    But as there is no way to appeal a wrong decision, I doubt Turbine considers it a problem.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by tammyaline View Post
    The biggest offenders will be the biggest real money spenders in the game. Bite the hand that feeds you ... I don't think so.

    Two week ban, maybe three to make them miss out on the +5 Mabar tomes, sure, but more than that? Wouldn't that be counter productive for Turbine? I think about even just the people I know on Thelanis that went ahead with this exploit and they would be losing too much money to Perma ban them all.

    Since Turbine knew about this exploit and are just getting around to doing something about it now makes me think there was an agenda or something to the timing of the whole thing. Time will tell.
    Disagree. Getting rid of the minority of players that exploited the game, and took advantage of others, is a good thing. I bet some of them are so addicted to the game that they will buy a new account and buy what they lost, so in the end Turbine will make more money.
    Last edited by Mystera; 10-08-2013 at 07:38 AM.

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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by tammyaline View Post
    I definitely think they will lose more money from people who are perma-banned than from people leaving in a tissy fit over a game. Yes without a doubt.

    Personally I have spent thousands on this game over the last 4 years, as has my husband who has been playing for 7. If we got banned, we would move on to Neverwinter or use it as an excuse to get a life. We stick around because of the new quests and raids and as we have high level characters we want to be at the top.

    If Turbine told us that you were taking away his completionist and 15 other characters all with at least 4 lives on them and then all of mine that are similarly leveled (minus the completionist) to have to start from scratch Id say they were crazy and why would they push us into another game.

    DDO has to compete with many other games right now and they need everyone they can get. These exploiters are the same people that pay big money to see things continue. They are in part why Turbine continues to make quests and expansions.

    I'm sure Turbine will sit down and say "ok XXXX people took part in this exploit. If we perma ban them ... How much would we lose? ... how about for one month? ... or 2 weeks? ... or one week?" They are a business and as upset as everyone is, try and look at it as a business. You better believe Turbine will. They will have their analysts working on it to weigh out the risks and then pick the least risk to them.

    In no way is the least risk a perma ban. You don't want to be turning away paying customers... what kind of business would they be? Not a very smart one , that's for sure.
    Several paying customers will leave if the exploiters / cheaters stay, and Turbine doesn't take away the items that will ruin the economy. Game is always better off when you get rid of people that are cheating / exploiting and ruining the experience for others. Better ecosystem will lead more people to playing the game.

  6. #126
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    Exclamation This isn't like stealing?? Who are you getting the AS from then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelaros View Post
    I am very disturbed by the turn DDO has taken recently. Players being banned for exploits is wrong. If something is not working as intended, it is Turbine's responsibility to fix it.

    This isn't like stealing from an unlocked but closed grocery store. That is against the rules of society (a.k.a. the law).

    The rules of DDO are programmed into the game. My brother once said "How do you cheat at a computer game?" Short of hacking I would say that you can't. What qualifies as an 'exploit/cheat' is a matter of opinion. I have met players who consider artificers and/or other casters to be an exploit/cheat. The line between exploit/cheat and being a good player who uses the rules well is subjective.
    You don't see its stealing when you use something like this to get other people rid of their AS - for which someone down the line had to put in real money to get - ?

    This is not cheating a computer game when its about the ASAH anymore, its cheating other players. And that is apart from the game-destabilizing effects it can have (to an extent I agree that people who have hoarded something in addition to plat are not cheated because its a risk you always have to take in account).

    If you found something to autowin quests, or whatever, its your choice whether you have fun gaming like that. But this is something different.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by tammyaline View Post
    UMMM sadly that's life ... haven't you figured out that people with the money tend to win in business and life?

    As I said in my previous post. They wouldn't get many of those people back to start over unless they had a 2nd account to go to. My husband's completionist was made pre bravery bonuses, pre xp tomes ... though I can not say I put as much time into one character, I have many characters with a lot of lives and I just couldn't be bothered to start again. To run the same quests that we have thousands of times? If I have to start characters over it would be much more fun to go to a new game with new quests or better yet spend it in the real world.

    Yet again your post is emotional and not looking at it from a business perspective. Who knows how this will work out but it will be in the best interest of one party. It's not the exploiters or the people who didn't exploit ... it's all about Turbine and unless you are a Risk Analyst for them during your day job, I don't think you opinions are very realistic in business.
    Their analysts just need to look to real life. Why do people like me spend thousands of dollars on Amazon and avoid eBay? Because eBay has an ecosystem where scammers are more prevalent. Amazon has set up an ecosystem where legitimate sellers are more prevalent. DDO needs to do the same and permaban the serious offenders. Only then we will start to have a legitimate ecosystem where the good players don't leave and new players enjoy playing.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelaros View Post
    I am very disturbed by the turn DDO has taken recently. Players being banned for exploits is wrong. If something is not working as intended, it is Turbine's responsibility to fix it.

    This isn't like stealing from an unlocked but closed grocery store. That is against the rules of society (a.k.a. the law).

    The rules of DDO are programmed into the game. My brother once said "How do you cheat at a computer game?" Short of hacking I would say that you can't. What qualifies as an 'exploit/cheat' is a matter of opinion. I have met players who consider artificers and/or other casters to be an exploit/cheat. The line between exploit/cheat and being a good player who uses the rules well is subjective.

    To see Turbine waste resources 'investigating accounts', instead of fixing problems, ticks me off. I reported the conjure bolts bug about 2 years ago, as far as I can tell, all they have done is add it to the list of known issues. A player named Kalda threatened to hunt me down and kill me (in real life) because I had a toon with a name that started with the letters k-a-l, he was not banned. At most he received a tell. So death threats are OK, but if a player uses the rules THAT TURBINE PROGRAMMED in a way Turbine failed to anticipate and doesn't like, they will get banned? The thing I love about this game is that I have tremendous flexibility to come up with novel approaches, and new ways to use the rules to maximize my effectiveness. I am not interested in continuing to play if I need to worry about getting banned for using the rules that they programmed.

    I spend several hundred a year on this game (which again, some players will consider a cheat/exploit). I will be checking back to see how this 'investigation' is handled. I am too disgusted to play tonight. If something is broken like this, or not WAI, Turbine should fix it. If Turbine continues this new policy of regularly banning players instead of fixing things, I will cancel my subscription. I am not interested in participating in a pretend society where we should live in constant fear that the secret police will ban us for some infraction that shouldn't have been possible if they consider it an infraction.
    The level of "OMG I can't believe you said that" in this thread is just...wow.

    I have seen many real life analogies, so let's try an in-game analogy:

    Suppose there is a new bug, one that allows one player to take items from another player's inventory (only inventory, not bank). Suppose I take stuff from your inventory and stash it in my bank, leaving my inventory empty, protecting me from retaliation. So by your definition, I would not be cheating, because the code allows me to do so. I'm sure you wouldn't be mad in any sort of way, then. So Turbine should not 'waste time' into investigating who stole from whom?

    'Gimme a break

  9. #129
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    Default so, what did you do in that case?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opensezame View Post
    I heard this has been around since update 19.... I can't start to imagine the number of players involved. I'm not sure what their decision will be but it's a little similar to an experience I had a few years ago at a cash machine that was giving out £20 where it should of given out £10 notes.... Do I take this opportunity and double my entire bank account??? After all, it's the bank who either programmed the machine incorrectly or filled it wrong I simply used the machine they created.
    So what did you do in that case (by the way, you do know that the bank can get exact info who received those bills and track the customers back, do you?)

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    You think they will lose money permabanning people?

    Some of them will make new accounts and rebuy the packs. Possibly quite a percentage.
    So banning could actually be a good way to generate additional income for Turbine?
    Where's my tinfoil hat and armor? )

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    This is not cheating a computer game when its about the ASAH anymore, its cheating other players.
    More than anything else, the game bigwigs need to understand this. Its what makes this so much worse than previous exploits and why it deserves a much bigger reaction

  12. #132
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    Default The surest sign

    ...that someone is not going to quit the game is that they take the time to come here and threaten to do so. Posting the "I'm going to quit" on the forums is a call for attention. Doing it here means that potentially getting a reaction from this player base or the game developers is important to them. Someone truly ready to quit just quits. They no longer care enough to resort to the attention seeking behavior.

    So, long and short of it is, stop wasting space in the thread with threats, and try and contribute to the discussion.

    That being said, have there been any bans, and if so, what seems to be the criteria being used?
    Valiant Accord

  13. #133
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelaros View Post
    If Turbine continues this new policy of regularly banning players instead of fixing things, I will cancel my subscription.
    If Turbine continues this new policy of regularly banning cheaters, I'll spend MORE money... So go Turbine.

    I highly recommend you publicize bannings. Not names, but let people they are happening to deter future cheating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    If Turbine continues this new policy of regularly banning cheaters, I'll spend MORE money...
    ^^this.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by tammyaline View Post
    I definitely think they will lose more money from people who are perma-banned than from people leaving in a tissy fit over a game. Yes without a doubt.

    Personally I have spent thousands on this game over the last 4 years, as has my husband who has been playing for 7. If we got banned, we would move on to Neverwinter or use it as an excuse to get a life. We stick around because of the new quests and raids and as we have high level characters we want to be at the top.

    If Turbine told us that you were taking away his completionist and 15 other characters all with at least 4 lives on them and then all of mine that are similarly leveled (minus the completionist) to have to start from scratch Id say they were crazy and why would they push us into another game.
    So you're saying you used this exploit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Ban the exploiters until after Mabar. Make em wait a year for that event.
    Give them all 30 day bans, but at the same time run a 25% xp, +2 loot, +25% guild renown event for the entire month as well. It's a nice reward for those that follow the rules.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  17. #137
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Give them all 30 day bans, but at the same time run a 25% xp, +2 loot, +25% guild renown event for the entire month as well. It's a nice reward for those that follow the rules.
    Not a terrible idea... Definitely make sure the exploiters miss Mabar... And perma-ban the worst offenders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonprophet View Post
    ...that someone is not going to quit the game is that they take the time to come here and threaten to do so. Posting the "I'm going to quit" on the forums is a call for attention. Doing it here means that potentially getting a reaction from this player base or the game developers is important to them. Someone truly ready to quit just quits. They no longer care enough to resort to the attention seeking behavior.
    That may be true in some cases, but not in others. People who become disinterested or bored leave without a word. People who are unhappy will express their views in the hopes that something will change. They don't want to leave, they are only doing it because they aren't getting what they believe they should be getting.

    It's easy to dismiss complainers but smart businesspeople understand their importance. While some people just like to complain, patterns matter, and when a lot of folks are threatening to quit over something, that should be ignored at the company's peril.

    If you think that threats to quit are idle, then I can tell you from personal experience that they are not. Last night I downloaded and tried out a different MMO, the first one I've even looked at since I started DDO in 2011. I prefer DDO as a game. How much of my money that company gets and how much Turbine gets is very much in Turbine's hands. And I assure you that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of other people in the same general place.

  19. #139
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    I just wanna go on record here and say that, The shard exchange and use of astral shards for in game items was a bad idea to start with, not to mention the use of shard to buy Gold Seal shrines for Guild Boats.

    The in game currency system has been, for all intents, the one means to do anything IN GAME, but when they started to incorporate real time money transactions, IE: Store, shards... the game lost some of its originality, things that made the game different from other MMOS...
    "I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied...
    Learn to swim..."

    *I'm not sure I like these new forums..*

  20. #140
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Some of them will make new accounts and rebuy the packs. Possibly quite a percentage.
    It isn't like it is expensive to create a new account and buy content for it. I did that with an alt account for assisting my main account with opening content and running through past lives. Cost far less than what I've spent on DDO Store augments, hearts of wood, mnemonics, cosmetic kits, etc.

    Thanks to ransack you don't even need a lot of content any longer. The Necropolis bundle and Vale are enough to reach level 20. Epic levels can easily be covered by Gianthold, Menace of the Underdark, and Shadowfell. Throw in Vault of Night if you want tokens for TRing. Any other pack can be completely ignored.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-08-2013 at 08:25 AM.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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