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  1. #61
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    I would laugh if some poor sod duplicated some really valuable stuff by accident, bug reported it, then destroyed the duplicated stuff and after this he gets hit with a lengthy bann or worse a perma ban. I know its not funny but.......sometimes things are so messed up you can't help but laugh at how crappy stuff can be.
    I would be stunned if there are not 100 phonecalls to Turbine claiming exactly this. And what's more, no doubt someone will have done this duplication by accident.

    But there is no way that certain items (Draconic Soul Gem, Globe of True Imperial Blood, more than one pile of larges/flawless dragonscales) were duped by accident.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  2. #62
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Let's see.

    Three days ago if I wanted an EH dragon helm with a good +3 stat I could search through my ingredients bag and ask people 'hey, I'll offer 4 flawless reds for that'.

    Now, 200 FRDS would not be accepted.

    The in-game economy is a real loss PVP arena, and so cheating in a big way in it has far-reaching effects.
    The economy was already borked by the loot redesign, this is small potatoes in comparison IMHO.

    Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. - Ronald Reagan

  3. #63
    Community Member CarpeNoctu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    It always amuses me, those that are so quick for a witch hunt forget it was failure to correct a problem that led to this in the first place. Failure to own up to it or say anything about it days after it was being posted far and wide (except deleting said mentions).

    Yes, let's all blame the mouse that ran after the cheese left in the open. Nevermind who left the cheese on the table in the first place.

    P.S. not condoning it, just saying Get real with your witch hunt people.
    Please... PLEASE tell me that I'm taking you a bit too literally. Please tell me that I'm completely taking your words out of context. Please tell me that you're not actually comparing the human capacity for reason, the human ability to choose and the human ability to act on said choices to the basic survival instinct of a mouse.

    Obviously there was a problem on Turbines end and Turbine left a door open... But we are each responsible for our own actions. If I walk by a grocery store that's technically closed but the doors are open, I do not have the right to go in and steal food and/or money. I have a responsibility to let someone know that they left the doors opened. It's the right thing. The responsible thing.

    We are human. We were arrogant enough to bestow upon ourselves the title "**** sapiens sapiens". Perhaps it's time we started trying to live 'up' to that name and stopped acting like animals (without our intellect, higher reasoning, ability to aspire to be more/better etc). Perhaps it's time we start holding ourselves to a higher standard rather than a lower one.

    /rant

  4. #64
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctu View Post
    Please... PLEASE tell me that I'm taking you a bit too literally. Please tell me that I'm completely taking your words out of context. Please tell me that you're not actually comparing the human capacity for reason, the human ability to choose and the human ability to act on said choices to the basic survival instinct of a mouse.

    Obviously there was a problem on Turbines end and Turbine left a door open... But we are each responsible for our own actions. If I walk by a grocery store that's technically closed but the doors are open, I do not have the right to go in and steal food and/or money. I have a responsibility to let someone know that they left the doors opened. It's the right thing. The responsible thing.

    We are human. We were arrogant enough to bestow upon ourselves the title "**** sapiens sapiens". Perhaps it's time we started trying to live 'up' to that name and stopped acting like animals (without our intellect, higher reasoning, ability to aspire to be more/better etc). Perhaps it's time we start holding ourselves to a higher standard rather than a lower one.

    /rant
    Agreed those that exploited should cop the consequences on the chin as it was their decision.

    Re: stealing though, this is different, as is all piracy.

    There are offences for destroying someone else's property (arson, willful damage, vandalism, etc). This deprives them of the item but you can't use the item.

    There is an offence for stealing someone else's property (stealing). This deprives them of the item and you can use the item.

    The difference between those two offences is where copyright infringement (and duplication in mmos) lies since they are not deprived of the item, but you can use the item.

    The issue is that we don't really have a raw offence for the destruction of someone else's property; unfortunately all of the ones I listed have their own little eccentricities such that we're not really measuring the punishment just for destroying the item.

    That means we can't just subtract destruction of property average sentence length from average sentence length of theft of the same item to come up with a logically sound punishment time.

    Most of that is totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but I had this revelation the other day so have decided to share.
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    In Von 3 the breakables in the Troll Ambassador optional room are slow to get to and unnecessary for ransack.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

  5. #65
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    It always amuses me, those that are so quick for a witch hunt forget it was failure to correct a problem that led to this in the first place. Failure to own up to it or say anything about it days after it was being posted far and wide (except deleting said mentions).

    Yes, let's all blame the mouse that ran after the cheese left in the open. Nevermind who left the cheese on the table in the first place.

    P.S. not condoning it, just saying Get real with your witch hunt people.
    The inability of the GMs working at the time to see what was going on and to pull the plug on the server made the issue worse, yes.

    They have no fault in not noticing the initial duping.

    But once the stacks of 100 FGDS started appearing on the Sarlona AH en masse and this was being talked about, that was the time to ask questions (including looking at guild sites and other places where this information gets discussed). Once a DDO fansite had the 'how to dupe' details in their public forums, that was the time to shut the server down and reboot it with all bank NPCs removed and a launcher note apologizing for any inconvenience caused by the banks being down.


    There needs to always be a lead GM online with the authority to make the business decision to have an emergency server shutdown. MMO 101 really.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  6. #66
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    So what happens to all the items I have posted on the asah? Are they getting returned to me, or did they disappear into oblivion? What happens to all the items I have bids on? I have over 700 astral shards bid on items right now, and I'd really like to get the item or the astral shards back.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctu View Post
    Please... PLEASE tell me that I'm taking you a bit too literally. Please tell me that I'm completely taking your words out of context. Please tell me that you're not actually comparing the human capacity for reason, the human ability to choose and the human ability to act on said choices to the basic survival instinct of a mouse.

    Obviously there was a problem on Turbines end and Turbine left a door open... But we are each responsible for our own actions. If I walk by a grocery store that's technically closed but the doors are open, I do not have the right to go in and steal food and/or money. I have a responsibility to let someone know that they left the doors opened. It's the right thing. The responsible thing.

    We are human. We were arrogant enough to bestow upon ourselves the title "**** sapiens sapiens". Perhaps it's time we started trying to live 'up' to that name and stopped acting like animals (without our intellect, higher reasoning, ability to aspire to be more/better etc). Perhaps it's time we start holding ourselves to a higher standard rather than a lower one.

    /rant
    Please.

    Human survival instinct in question? Ever see what the poor do to survive? Humans are what the environment dictates. How about riots? War?

    Now if your local grocery store left its door open for a week while everyone left them messages that the store owners saw and did nothing but sell storage units and astral shards, then you'd have a good comparison.

    Someone at Turbine needs to be fired for Allowing this to go on with knowledge of threads being cubed and moderated on the exact topics of the store doors left open. Fired for not taking action immediately, for falling to even bother to come out with any type of statement saying bans coming stop your ****.

    Good job turbine.

  8. #68
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Please note that we continue our research on accounts who have participated in item duplication, and will continue taking action against additional accounts accordingly as our research completes. Thanks for your cooperation while we conduct the investigations.
    Good luck actually punishing those who participated. Sure, some of them will actually suffer (what I assume will be) a few days of boredom, but most of those I know that participated intentionally used (one of) their "loot pulling" accounts for this very reason. You'll cut down on their multiboxing for the (likely nonpermanent) duration of the ban, but that's about it...
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    So what happens to all the items I have posted on the asah? Are they getting returned to me, or did they disappear into oblivion? What happens to all the items I have bids on? I have over 700 astral shards bid on items right now, and I'd really like to get the item or the astral shards back.
    Seems you lost your fortune, again.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctu View Post
    Please... PLEASE tell me that I'm taking you a bit too literally. Please tell me that I'm completely taking your words out of context. Please tell me that you're not actually comparing the human capacity for reason, the human ability to choose and the human ability to act on said choices to the basic survival instinct of a mouse.

    Obviously there was a problem on Turbines end and Turbine left a door open... But we are each responsible for our own actions. If I walk by a grocery store that's technically closed but the doors are open, I do not have the right to go in and steal food and/or money. I have a responsibility to let someone know that they left the doors opened. It's the right thing. The responsible thing.

    We are human. We were arrogant enough to bestow upon ourselves the title "**** sapiens sapiens". Perhaps it's time we started trying to live 'up' to that name and stopped acting like animals (without our intellect, higher reasoning, ability to aspire to be more/better etc). Perhaps it's time we start holding ourselves to a higher standard rather than a lower one.

    /rant
    The symbology of man vs mouse was exactly what I was going for. So, yes if you are being literal, look deeper into the meaning of those phrases and you might get what I was talking about.

    It is funny to me to see such uprising over such petty things. And even moreso watching folks compare it to RL disgusting things.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  11. #71
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Good luck actually punishing those who participated. Sure, some of them will actually suffer (what I assume will be) a few days of boredom, but most of those I know that participated intentionally used (one of) their "loot pulling" accounts for this very reason. You'll cut down on their multiboxing for the (likely nonpermanent) duration of the ban, but that's about it...
    This is why they need to ban all accounts linked to the credit card of proven dupers, not just the account used.

    Some will have thought ahead enough to avoid this, but you'll get most of the worst offenders.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    The inability of the GMs working at the time to see what was going on and to pull the plug on the server made the issue worse, yes.

    They have no fault in not noticing the initial duping.

    But once the stacks of 100 FGDS started appearing on the Sarlona AH en masse and this was being talked about, that was the time to ask questions (including looking at guild sites and other places where this information gets discussed). Once a DDO fansite had the 'how to dupe' details in their public forums, that was the time to shut the server down and reboot it with all bank NPCs removed and a launcher note apologizing for any inconvenience caused by the banks being down.


    There needs to always be a lead GM online with the authority to make the business decision to have an emergency server shutdown. MMO 101 really.
    I feel they handled it correctly, but slowly.

    Cut off the source of profits. Then shut that down and make it known investigations will be ongoing.

    Hopefully, the handling of thier findings will be fair. And the only thing I would do different is to do the same faster. Cut off the ASAH and make it known what is happening is not allowed.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  13. #73
    Community Member kyostal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    I feel they handled it correctly, but slowly.

    Cut off the source of profits. Then shut that down and make it known investigations will be ongoing.

    Hopefully, the handling of thier findings will be fair. And the only thing I would do different is to do the same faster. Cut off the ASAH and make it known what is happening is not allowed.

    Im still curious as to why this wasnt done sooner.. it was known a few days ago.. posts on the official forums were removed if they pertained to this.. why the hell was it let go for as long as it did... I dont condone what was done... but in all honesty... what will a few stacks of gs mats do to the already corrupt economy.. the only problem i have with it.. is people that abused the asah to make a profit off someone elses real money.. if stuff was shoved into the normal AH... i dont think anything would have come of this... but somone had to go and be greedy and skim shards off the unsuspecting peon.. to which the said peon may pay dearly for with a temp/perm ban.. and loss of real life money due to the shard loss...

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyostal View Post
    Im still curious as to why this wasnt done sooner.. it was known a few days ago.. posts on the official forums were removed if they pertained to this.. why the hell was it let go for as long as it did... I dont condone what was done... but in all honesty... what will a few stacks of gs mats do to the already corrupt economy.. the only problem i have with it.. is people that abused the asah to make a profit off someone elses real money.. if stuff was shoved into the normal AH... i dont think anything would have come of this... but somone had to go and be greedy and skim shards off the unsuspecting peon.. to which the said peon may pay dearly for with a temp/perm ban.. and loss of real life money due to the shard loss...
    I agree.

    If this is, and is against game rules it should not take so long for some action to be taken.

    I do, however, stand by the action that server roll backs, etc are too strong as they negatively impact those that may have had nothing to do with it. I respect the decision made, sooner would be better but it's all past now.

    Now, we move past this. Dust does settle.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  15. #75
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctu View Post
    ...Obviously there was a problem on Turbines end and Turbine left a door open... But we are each responsible for our own actions. If I walk by a grocery store that's technically closed but the doors are open, I do not have the right to go in and steal food and/or money. I have a responsibility to let someone know that they left the doors opened. It's the right thing. The responsible thing.

    We are human. We were arrogant enough to bestow upon ourselves the title "**** sapiens sapiens". Perhaps it's time we started trying to live 'up' to that name and stopped acting like animals (without our intellect, higher reasoning, ability to aspire to be more/better etc). Perhaps it's time we start holding ourselves to a higher standard rather than a lower one.

    /rant

    That is a noble thought, but if we held ourselves to a higher standard we wouldn't be playing or debating video games in our spare time. How refined can any of us really claim to be?

    Every time I log onto this game, I am abandoning will-power and self control just like the big, dumb animals wandering into the empty grocery store in your post apocalyptic scenario.

  16. #76
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    The Shard Exchange is temporarily unavailable. We apologize for the inconvenience.

    Please note that we continue our research on accounts who have participated in item duplication, and will continue taking action against additional accounts accordingly as our research completes. Thanks for your cooperation while we conduct the investigations.
    Is it too late for me to update my client and get in on the item on item action?

  17. #77
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    that was the time to ask questions (including looking at guild sites and other places where this information gets discussed). Once a DDO fansite had the 'how to dupe' details in their public forums, that was the time to shut the server down
    If Turbine doesn't have at least somebody "undercover" on the fansite forums, then they are being willfully ignorent of what's going on in their own game. What is "fight club" here is openly discussed there.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Seven months ago if I wanted an EH dragon helm with a good +3 stat I could search through my ingredients bag and ask people 'hey, I'll offer 4 flawless reds for that'.
    FTFY. Don’t undersell the damage that the Astral Shard Cashgrab did to the economy of this game.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • NEW - Fix the flipping non-proficiency penalties for wildshape!
    • Redo the Favor rewards so there is a reason to do max favor again.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
    • Task Lynnabel with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck.
    • Tiering the Runearms so that artificers aren’t screwed out of the advantages of Cannith Crafting in Epic levels on their signature item.
    • Finishing the enhancement tree passes (including racial PrE’s) before rolling out yet another DDOStore™ Enhancement Tree.

  19. #79
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    I am very disturbed by the turn DDO has taken recently. Players being banned for exploits is wrong. If something is not working as intended, it is Turbine's responsibility to fix it.

    This isn't like stealing from an unlocked but closed grocery store. That is against the rules of society (a.k.a. the law).

    The rules of DDO are programmed into the game. My brother once said "How do you cheat at a computer game?" Short of hacking I would say that you can't. What qualifies as an 'exploit/cheat' is a matter of opinion. I have met players who consider artificers and/or other casters to be an exploit/cheat. The line between exploit/cheat and being a good player who uses the rules well is subjective.

    To see Turbine waste resources 'investigating accounts', instead of fixing problems, ticks me off. I reported the conjure bolts bug about 2 years ago, as far as I can tell, all they have done is add it to the list of known issues. A player named Kalda threatened to hunt me down and kill me (in real life) because I had a toon with a name that started with the letters k-a-l, he was not banned. At most he received a tell. So death threats are OK, but if a player uses the rules THAT TURBINE PROGRAMMED in a way Turbine failed to anticipate and doesn't like, they will get banned? The thing I love about this game is that I have tremendous flexibility to come up with novel approaches, and new ways to use the rules to maximize my effectiveness. I am not interested in continuing to play if I need to worry about getting banned for using the rules that they programmed.

    I spend several hundred a year on this game (which again, some players will consider a cheat/exploit). I will be checking back to see how this 'investigation' is handled. I am too disgusted to play tonight. If something is broken like this, or not WAI, Turbine should fix it. If Turbine continues this new policy of regularly banning players instead of fixing things, I will cancel my subscription. I am not interested in participating in a pretend society where we should live in constant fear that the secret police will ban us for some infraction that shouldn't have been possible if they consider it an infraction.

  20. #80
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    Wait, I didn't realize the extent of this until I saw the screenshots of stacks of 100s of scales and heard about hundreds of lvl 25-28 augments and true globes of imperial blood being created https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...y-ruined/page2. If Turbine doesn't reverse the stacks of 100s of these items people created, and ban them, I am leaving the game. I have spent 4 years building up my fortune and storing it in items like scales. If Turbine made these obsolete overnight, and don't reverse the damage, I am quitting the game. No need to have my fortune completely obliterated because someone else exploited.
    Difficulty is anyone legit who bid on or bought items weren't in the wrong - so they will be out their purchase price if they simply roll out the items. Very messy situation, that.

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