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  1. #1
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    Default Can I stack Creeping Cold Spells without limit, or am I resetting it?

    In some boss fights I like to hit them with Freezing Spray, then I alternate between hitting them with SLA Creeping Cold, Creeping Cold, and Greater Creeping Cold. Do they all just keep stacking and stacking or am I resetting them as I re-apply the spells?


    Also, if I play a Sorc or Wiz next, is there anything more awesome than Creeping Cold spells?

  2. #2
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    Creeping Cold does not stack. Casting a new Creeping Cold will remove the old one and replace it with the new one. It does increasing damage over its duration, meaning you're losing damage by constantly casting it instead of waiting for the last tick of damage.

    In contrast, the Wiz/Sorc spells Niac's Biting Cold and Eladar's Electric Surge do stack, and can do up to triple damage by doing so.

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    however creeping cold and greater creeping cold can both be applied to a target

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    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    ya thats the only thing I hated about creep. I have to have the boss's bio up watching it to see when the timer goes off. Why can't their be a goofy timer at the top of the screen. Hell even a lil icon that counts down above the monster that's toggleable in the UI.
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  5. #5
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    I have tested that creeping cold spell and SLA do stack (along with greater creeping cold) and both do damage if you cast the real spell version first, but the timer when you examine the boss will reset.

  6. #6

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    NOTE: They suppress ALL niac's biting cold from any arcane in your group. So if you're the only druid in a shroud run with 3 arcanes, your creeping cold makes all 3 arcanes' niac's do no damage. Just an FYI.

  7. #7
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    NOTE: They suppress ALL niac's biting cold from any arcane in your group. So if you're the only druid in a shroud run with 3 arcanes, your creeping cold makes all 3 arcanes' niac's do no damage. Just an FYI.
    I believe it only suppresses it until Niac's is recast, so if you consistently recast your creeping cold at 4 seconds left on niac's it will be ok.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeebaNeighba View Post
    I believe it only suppresses it until Niac's is recast, so if you consistently recast your creeping cold at 4 seconds left on niac's it will be ok.
    On the shroud run I did last week, I kept both eladar's and niac's triple stacked through both 4 & 5 and while my eladar's consistently "exploded", my niac's never did, not even once.

    There was a druid in the party casting creeping cold.

  9. #9
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    On the shroud run I did last week, I kept both eladar's and niac's triple stacked through both 4 & 5 and while my eladar's consistently "exploded", my niac's never did, not even once.

    There was a druid in the party casting creeping cold.
    Yup that is what happens, or someone with a calomel weapon can cause it too.

  10. #10
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    On the shroud run I did last week, I kept both eladar's and niac's triple stacked through both 4 & 5 and while my eladar's consistently "exploded", my niac's never did, not even once.

    There was a druid in the party casting creeping cold.
    Considering the SP cost:damage ratio, you should let the Druid have the the cold DoT.

    The same way healers need to stop spamming blade barriers over the an artie's (which is more about choosing the stronger BB, but not too dissimilar).

  11. #11
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Considering the SP cost:damage ratio, you should let the Druid have the the cold DoT.
    Funny. Aside from the fact that it's a raid like shroud, where sp means nothing, do you really think it's better for a druid to use creeping cold over 2-3 arcanes using niacs?

  12. #12
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Funny. Aside from the fact that it's a raid like shroud, where sp means nothing, do you really think it's better for a druid to use creeping cold over 2-3 arcanes using niacs?
    Assuming identical spell power and crit, and caster level 20:

    Average creeping cold damage per tick: 1d4+6*2 first pair of ticks, 2d4+6*4 second pair of ticks, 3d4+6*4 for the third pair. Which is an average of 29 damage per tick, base.

    Average greater creeping cold damage per tick: 2d4+10*4 first pair of ticks, 4d4+10*6 second pair, 6d4+10*8 third pair, for an average of 70 damage per tick, base.

    Average Niac's tick: 1d6+20 which is 23.5, and it can stack 3 times for 70.5. So 3 stacks of Niac's and Greater Creeping Cold are pretty much the same. Regular creeping cold is a little more than a 4th stack. So ideally, 2 arcanes consistently refreshing a triple stacked Niac's would out-DPS the druid, except...Well, Niac's has that annoying part where you have to refresh the stack to keep it running, and you also have to spend 20-30 seconds building the stack to 3 each time. Creeping colds don't have those annoyances. I believe creeping cold only nullifies the damage, but does not remove the stacks, so at the very least the druid can creeping cold twice or so while the arcanes build stacks.

  13. #13
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeebaNeighba View Post
    Assuming identical spell power and crit, and caster level 20:

    Average creeping cold damage per tick: 1d4+6*2 first pair of ticks, 2d4+6*4 second pair of ticks, 3d4+6*4 for the third pair. Which is an average of 29 damage per tick, base.

    Average greater creeping cold damage per tick: 2d4+10*4 first pair of ticks, 4d4+10*6 second pair, 6d4+10*8 third pair, for an average of 70 damage per tick, base.

    Average Niac's tick: 1d6+20 which is 23.5, and it can stack 3 times for 70.5. So 3 stacks of Niac's and Greater Creeping Cold are pretty much the same. Regular creeping cold is a little more than a 4th stack. So ideally, 2 arcanes consistently refreshing a triple stacked Niac's would out-DPS the druid, except...Well, Niac's has that annoying part where you have to refresh the stack to keep it running, and you also have to spend 20-30 seconds building the stack to 3 each time. Creeping colds don't have those annoyances. I believe creeping cold only nullifies the damage, but does not remove the stacks, so at the very least the druid can creeping cold twice or so while the arcanes build stacks.
    Aka - arcanes have better DoT's in a group situation.

    Yup.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeton_Seraph View Post
    Considering the SP cost:damage ratio, you should let the Druid have the the cold DoT.
    Since I was the only arcane and he was the only druid, I told him to keep casting creeping cold. If there were two or more arcanes I would have asked him to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeebaNeighba View Post
    So ideally, 2 arcanes consistently refreshing a triple stacked Niac's would out-DPS the druid, except...Well, Niac's has that annoying part where you have to refresh the stack to keep it running, and you also have to spend 20-30 seconds building the stack to 3 each time. Creeping colds don't have those annoyances.
    I'm not entirely sure you understand how these work. Creeping cold has a major dps issue in that if you refresh it too early you lose a huge chunk of your dps, and if you refresh too late you leave the mob undamaged between spells. The only way to get maximum dps is by perfectly timing every cast with an "examine" box up at all times in order to do this. Way, way, way more difficult to maintain through a multi-minute fight than niac's.

    You also say "building the stack to 3 each time." Each what time? Once it's triple stacked, it is trivially easy to maintain the triple stack until the mob is dead, consistently, every single time.



    Also, another possible downside of creeping cold is that my understanding is it also suppresses other druids' creeping cold.

  15. #15
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I'm not entirely sure you understand how these work. Creeping cold has a major dps issue in that if you refresh it too early you lose a huge chunk of your dps, and if you refresh too late you leave the mob undamaged between spells. The only way to get maximum dps is by perfectly timing every cast with an "examine" box up at all times in order to do this. Way, way, way more difficult to maintain through a multi-minute fight than niac's.

    You also say "building the stack to 3 each time." Each what time? Once it's triple stacked, it is trivially easy to maintain the triple stack until the mob is dead, consistently, every single time.



    Also, another possible downside of creeping cold is that my understanding is it also suppresses other druids' creeping cold.
    If you don't refresh it in time, you don't lose everything, while you do for Niac's which was my point.

    "Each time" meant each round in that shroud scenario.

    With it suppressing other druid creeping cold, well, either you get one creeping cold from the group or you have no one cast it and get no creeping colds. Better to cast it then to have no one cast it, disregarding arcanes.

    Also, there do seem to be ways that creeping cold will stack with itself, even though the timer on the examine window resets. I haven't tested it fully, but I have done stuff like cast greater creeping cold, regular creeping cold spell and creeping cold SLA all at once and seen 18 ticks of damage (It would be 13 if the second creeping cold overwrote the first).

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeebaNeighba View Post
    With it suppressing other druid creeping cold, well, either you get one creeping cold from the group or you have no one cast it and get no creeping colds. Better to cast it then to have no one cast it, disregarding arcanes.
    heh, clearly.

    Looks like the same rules still apply:

    1+ Druid > 1 Arcane
    2+ Arcanes > 1+ Druid

    If you have two or more arcanes in the group, no druids should cast creeping cold regardless how many there are. If only one arcane, creeping cold is better if and only if the druid casting it can be relied on to do it close to optimally. If multiple druids in the group, give the most OCD one the creeping cold job.

  17. #17
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Default How about they just fix it?

    How about they just fix it? :P! ! ! Cheers!
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  18. #18
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whereispowderedsilve View Post
    How about they just fix it? :P! ! ! Cheers!
    Yes, I'm sure they can add a little tip the description. "This spell gets messed up around other cold damage over time spells, have fun!"

  19. #19
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    heh, clearly.

    Looks like the same rules still apply:

    1+ Druid > 1 Arcane
    2+ Arcanes > 1+ Druid

    If you have two or more arcanes in the group, no druids should cast creeping cold regardless how many there are. If only one arcane, creeping cold is better if and only if the druid casting it can be relied on to do it close to optimally. If multiple druids in the group, give the most OCD one the creeping cold job.
    or the druid can be in shiradi and put down and earthquake, ice storm, and spam produce flame to fish for procs, the arcane can dot and everyone can then dps.

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