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  1. #21
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I would say barb wish I had done it as my first life for sure now not sure when I will do it.
    I used my +20 on my arti to go barb, and then TRd. In retrospect, it may have been a waste, since I don't think I'll be going for completionist, but now, if I ever do, it will be that toon, since I don't have to worry about the barb life.

  2. #22
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlayna View Post
    I used my +20 on my arti to go barb, and then TRd. In retrospect, it may have been a waste, since I don't think I'll be going for completionist, but now, if I ever do, it will be that toon, since I don't have to worry about the barb life.
    yeah I would rather have the arti past life +1 skill its to every skill right? is more valuable now, over 10 extra hps but hey much more fun to do arti again and get that bonus if you want it.


    And paladin is not *that* bad to level you dont have to go sword and board and you can splash people. Im running a 8 fighter 3 monk going to be 9 paladin at the moment and loving the kensei monk thing but the irony is at the moment I prob got 2 ap spent in the paladin tree . Yeah paladin tree deserves moar love. I had people running wiht me who had heavier paladin splashes 16 or 18 levels when they get to cap and you didnt really get to see the dps gap till about levels 17-19 when stuff really got a ton more hps, before that I was only beating them on the kills counts by a little bit unless I really tried hard. But after I would easily get 2 to 3 times the kills and you could see the difference in how long it took me to kill stuff compared to them, but also i think im a bit better geared as well.And I do remember last life with 18 levels of paladin and I did have less dps.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 10-06-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    And paladin is not *that* bad to level you dont have to go sword and board and you can splash people. Im running a 8 fighter 3 monk going to be 9 paladin at the moment and loving the kensei monk thing but the irony is at the moment I prob got 2 ap spent in the paladin tree . Yeah paladin tree deserves moar love. I had people running wiht me who had heavier paladin splashes 16 or 18 levels when they get to cap and you didnt really get to see the dps gap till about levels 17-19 when stuff really got a ton more hps, before that I was only beating them on the kills counts by a little bit unless I really tried hard. But after I would easily get 2 to 3 times the kills and you could see the difference in how long it took me to kill stuff compared to them, but also i think im a bit better geared as well.And I do remember last life with 18 levels of paladin and I did have less dps.
    I used to like going 1 rogue, 9 monk, 10 pally (taken in that order) for my paladin pl needs. Stunning fist, imp. evasion, shadow fade & touch of death* made leveling easy as pie. Moar saves from paladin helped out, too. Just pretend you're a monk and go to town on mobs. The same build was useful in getting just about any past life besides barb & bard, too.

    *Can't get this one nowdays with this build, though.
    Old forum names (that I can't use anymore because of forum changes): Lehmu, Kanttura.
    I play Iioi, Feira, Shrtguy Stabsalot, Hjeelmee Nao, Kesib, Eisiishai, Iioo, Iiio & Havesword Will Travel on Argonnessen.
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  4. #24
    Community Member ChicagoChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Save your heart. For me, the worst was Paladin.

    Plus, going from 3 classes to anything different is basically impossible w/ the +20 heart as you can't have more than 3 classes at any one point in time (and, while you're doing the LR thing, that includes "the future").
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    You can do it so long as you overwrite the 3rd class in the order you take your levels so you're then working with 2 classes - but you can't get around the alignment restriction.
    Ah - didn't know that - that's really good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkly_dreaming View Post
    For me, the hardest class is rogue. If you solo you lose a lot of damage for back stab, and it always seems like pugs either want 1 rogue in the group or none at all depending on the trap status of the quest. I know people who swear otherwise, but on no other class have I had so many groups where I'm just never denied or accepted, or after forever (and I've moved on to something else) I get that 'so'n'so has declined your request because their group is now full'. So yeah, I used the +20 heart to turn my 4th FvS life into rogue on my main so I could skip it.
    So not a lot of Rouge love in the PUGs. I'm thinking this is because Arti's can do a lot of things that use to be Rouge only...

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    yeah I would rather have the arti past life +1 skill its to every skill right? is more valuable now, over 10 extra hps but hey much more fun to do arti again and get that bonus if you want it.

    And paladin is not *that* bad to level you dont have to go sword and board and you can splash people. Im running a 8 fighter 3 monk going to be 9 paladin at the moment and loving the kensei monk thing but the irony is at the moment I prob got 2 ap spent in the paladin tree . Yeah paladin tree deserves moar love. I had people running wiht me who had heavier paladin splashes 16 or 18 levels when they get to cap and you didnt really get to see the dps gap till about levels 17-19 when stuff really got a ton more hps, before that I was only beating them on the kills counts by a little bit unless I really tried hard. But after I would easily get 2 to 3 times the kills and you could see the difference in how long it took me to kill stuff compared to them, but also i think im a bit better geared as well.And I do remember last life with 18 levels of paladin and I did have less dps.
    I would think the Pali/Monk combo would be great, some self healing with LOH and spells. 11Pal gets you Cure Moderate, although 14Pal gets you Zeal. I'm not sure how many Monk levels you need to make it through 20, but I would think 6 would be fine, although 9 would make for a quicker TR.
    Farog on Khyber

  5. #25

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    As pointed out any of the various classes can be problematic depending on your own play style/grouping options. For me the toughest thing was sometimes not having the proper gear and ending up plat broke getting it.
    IMOP the toughest were Paladin and Barbarian, with Barb coming in first by a smedge...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    I actualy quite enjoyed my Barbarian life. I mean yes - it was kinda.. full ******** DPS. No survivability, glass cannon par excellence. But with a cleric (or hire) in my back, I was able to tear anything to pieces.

    I liked it purely for the "crush all" effect.
    As long as you dont like this, barb is not that good of a choice and because of the lack of reliable selfhealing, prolly the worst.

    But for me, the worst is paladin. That thing is so boring in all areas... No DPS, No reall healing in group, obsolete tanking technique...
    And to me, my paladin/monk was loads of fun. Tons of defense, self healing, an oh-**** button made life simple. And exalted smite for killing things when they just needed to die. Now, it should be even easier, since you can have a shintao or ninja spy with the good enhancements from KOTC/SD

  7. #27
    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoChris View Post
    I'm right in the process of completing my second life - first was a pure paladin, this one is a cleric/rogue/monk based off the Melee-Capable Survivalist Cleric https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ic+rogue+build . My first life took me some 2 years, this one about 2 months. Much simpler build to play, lots of fun. I'm at L18 and ready to start putting two in the bank.

    I have my +20 heart of wood and was wondering if it made sense to switch to a harder leveling class such as Barbarian or Bard before taking my TR and coming back to this same type of build.

    So the basic question is - given U19 classes and enhancements - what's currently the hardest class to level?
    For me the easiest was Barbarian but I mastered the old enhancement line but with the new enhancements lines you will loose around 15 str in the comparison. If you want to use your LR +20 on a barbarian I would recommend to do it simply for farming the gear you need to make a Unstoppable forced barbarian. But if you have a dps zerged play style then my guess is a bard would be a complete nightmare. So Bard for me. Not trying to insult any dedicated Bard players you guys have some awesome dps and skills. Just not my cup of tea Barbarian spoiled me.

  8. #28
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    For me it depends if you farm xp alone or go mostly in static xp farm groups,

    For solo (on Normal and Hard) is easier to go on a meele dps toon with a hire, dps casters are good too (as always), but divines and support classes suffer because of the sustained dps that slows the runs. (spellsinger bards and clerics are the worst there followed by rogues in my opinion)

    For Farm groups, (mostly on Elite), dps casters are good because have dps and self healing covered, divines and support casters that can self heal, heal others and do some dps/assistance have no problem here, and meeles like barb, rogue or fighter have trouble with self heal when no divines on the party, (unless pots or umd for heal scrolls). (Barbarians, and other meele or support classes that can't keep alive on Elite byoh are the worst there)

    If you want speed for leveling, the best is to stick around with good xp farm groups so the meeles classes that can't survive by their own on Elite are the worst options there, assuming that not always will have heal support in the group.

    If you want Easy leveling, the solo option on normal-hards is easier but obviously takes more time, there the dps + hire is a good option and support classes and divines suffer a bit more, but not excluded.

    In general, assuming you have decent gear for dps and self suficiency, the barbarian is the worst option because elite byoh (but good for solo normal and hard), followed by spellsinger bard (lacks on dps and resistance), fighter if no umd for heal, Cleric caster (if soloing but at least can do it slowly)

    If you dont have decent gear; Bards, Paladins and rogues classes would be the worst because they can't keep alive on elite byoh and also lack on dps for soloing.
    Last edited by elcagador; 10-14-2013 at 12:06 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by elcagador View Post
    For me it depends if you farm xp alone or go mostly in static xp farm groups,

    For solo (on Normal and Hard) is easier to go on a meele dps toon with a hire, dps casters are good too (as always), but divines and support classes suffer because of the sustained dps that slows the runs. (spellsinger bards and clerics are the worst there followed by rogues in my opinion)

    For Farm groups, (mostly on Elite), dps casters are good because have dps and self healing covered, divines and support casters that can self heal, heal others and do some dps/assistance have no problem here, and meeles like barb, rogue or fighter have trouble with self heal when no divines on the party, (unless pots or umd for heal scrolls). (Barbarians, and other meele or support classes that can't keep alive on Elite byoh are the worst there)

    If you want speed for leveling, the best is to stick around with good xp farm groups so the meeles classes that can't survive by their own on Elite are the worst options there, assuming that not always will have heal support in the group.

    If you want Easy leveling, the solo option on normal-hards is easier but obviously takes more time, there the dps + hire is a good option and support classes and divines suffer a bit more, but not excluded.

    In general, assuming you have decent gear for dps and self suficiency, the barbarian is the worst option because elite byoh (but good for solo normal and hard), followed by spellsinger bard (lacks on dps and resistance), fighter if no umd for heal, Cleric caster (if soloing but at least can do it slowly)

    If you dont have decent gear; Bards, Paladins and rogues classes would be the worst because they can't keep alive on elite byoh and also lack on dps for soloing.
    What? All three can self heal. The first gets quicken, maximize (or empower heal), and healing spells. Paladin has the cha to make up for CC UMD, lay on hands, and eventually can also take quicken + maximize (granted, that is usually level 15+18 or 12+15), and you can get 30% amp from human and 30% from paladin, one of the only classes that can get great amp WITHOUT gear. Add more amp if monk splashed, or more UMD if rogue splashed, and they are very survivable. And rogues get UMD. These three classes are excellent at staying alive.

    Fighter and (especially) barbarian are the ones that suck without gear. Namely, silver flame pots (Though even those two classes can build for UMD, barbs are still rough because they can't be raging to use it).

  10. #30
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjones0064 View Post
    But if you have a dps zerged play style then my guess is a bard would be a complete nightmare. So Bard for me. Not trying to insult any dedicated Bard players you guys have some awesome dps and skills. Just not my cup of tea Barbarian spoiled me.
    I'm not especially hung up on zerging all the time, but playing a bard last life one thing I noticed was that they zerg just fine. At least solo. Invis and run while playing fascinate/enthrall. Groups seem to have a hard time with this concept.

    And for the end bosses or mobs that can't be bypassed, divine might from 1 lvl of cleric and cleavage takes care of them
    m. At level 22 when I tr'ed, I had a 44 cha and a buffed strength in the mid 60s.

    Add 2 levels of rogue and you've got pretty much the ideal solo toon. Self buffing, self healing, potent cc, respectable dps, trapping, evasion... what else do you need?

    It's not that bad, it just takes a little different approach than a 4 button wf sorc. Certainly a heck of a lot easier than barb where you have very few choices other than just facerolling everything with a nanny duct taped to your back.



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  11. #31
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Barb...

    I do 'em as 10sorc/10barb. Works astonishingly well if you have gear and skill. Even before EDs and OP items this was doable. Soloing elite level 17-19 quests like amrath, RR and IQ1/2 as a 10sorc/8barb is very satisfying.

    Can go 14sorc/1rog/5barb if you have the funds for a +5 heart.


    Other classes...at least fighters have decent dps and feat flexibility. At least rogues have great dps in groups or if you build for it, and can self heal, get traps, be healer, etc. At least bards have self healing, unbeatable CC, decent damage and can heal groups. At least paladins can self heal, and splash monk for decent damage/survivability.

    Mind you, on my completionist, I did my paladin life as 10/10, my fighter life as 10/10, my bard life as 10/10 as well as my rogue life as 9/2/9, so what do I know? .

    I'm still saying barb!

    Barb's are basically tied to a cleric or a silver flame pot in any kind of tough content...you couldn't pay me enough to level a pure barb. That being said, I've seen SOME decent TR barbs that just killed stuff so fast that they avoided a lot of damage...but without gear and a great build, it's hard to be able to do that. In HP-bloat land of 18-19lvl quests it's REALLY hard (stunning blow helps). 90% of barbs that hit my lfms are useless scaling and a nice -10% xp.

  12. #32
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Well... you could go 18/2 barb/rogue. It requires some work but you can get reasonable umd and saves; just don't use rage. At lvl 11 you can have a UMD in the mid 30s, I guess (14 ranks, 6 exceptional, 4 GH, 3 skill tome, 3 enhancement, 3 cha bonus, 2 good luck). Should be ok.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    What? All three can self heal. The first gets quicken, maximize (or empower heal), and healing spells. Paladin has the cha to make up for CC UMD, lay on hands, and eventually can also take quicken + maximize (granted, that is usually level 15+18 or 12+15), and you can get 30% amp from human and 30% from paladin, one of the only classes that can get great amp WITHOUT gear. Add more amp if monk splashed, or more UMD if rogue splashed, and they are very survivable. And rogues get UMD. These three classes are excellent at staying alive.

    Fighter and (especially) barbarian are the ones that suck without gear. Namely, silver flame pots (Though even those two classes can build for UMD, barbs are still rough because they can't be raging to use it).
    Bard, Paladin and Rogue can be good with the right gear to boost self heal or umd for heal scrolls, saves in the case of bards and rogues, ac for Paladins, also they depends more on gear for dps, that's why I said "If don't have decent gear".

    Sure, A Bard or a paladin can use quickened and maximiced cure serious wounds but that would drop the sp very soon unless you have gear for sp like torc, bauble, archmagi, etc.

    It's just my opinion but for a toon without gear, I prefer a Barbarian or a Fighter simply because they at least have dps for soloing normal and hard with a hire, while a Bard or a Paladin without gear lacks on dps and takes more time soloing to farm gear or xp.
    Last edited by elcagador; 10-14-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  14. #34
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    I don't understand the issue with leveling barbs. I had three barb lives so far and all of them were really easy to level. The latest one was after the enhancement pass and was a 18/2 barb/rogue. Due to evasion and not picking frenzied berserker this was by far the easiest barb life yet. Note that I always had a hireling healer and generally played quests by myself. Also, at about level 16-17 I switched from Elite to Hard bravery streak. I did not play past level 20, so I cannot comment on that.

    I can understand if some consider barb tough to level because it's boring or because they join byoh groups. However, the second issue is resolved by starting your own group and bringing your own hireling healer.

    Generally, quests need people that take hits, dish out DPS, disarm traps, and heal. The 18/2 barb/rogue can handle the first three while the hireling healer handles the last. Yes, every so often the hireling healer has to be micromanaged, but it wasn't that bad for me.

    So, to the OP, barb can be hard depending on the people you group with. Static byoh group will be difficult for a barb.

    My hardest life so far was a pre-enhancement pass spellsinger bard. I had a static group of one friend and neither of us had enough DPS. Bad party composition, half of which was my fault. However, in a full group the bard did great.

    It all depends on whom you usually group with.

  15. #35
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    The hardest class to level, is the one a person finds fits their play style the least. It is as simple as that, for every person that finds X class hard to level you will find a counter person that found X to be easy.

    The question you have to ask yourself is: What class does not fit my play style, and can multi-classing get me my play style and still have enough splash of class X to qualify for the PL

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by elcagador View Post
    Bard, Paladin and Rogue can be good with the right gear to boost self heal or umd for heal scrolls,
    Anyone else notice that post U19, Bard 16 has no UMD check (at all) for Heal scrolls? And caster level instead of UMD optionally a bit before that, too.

    (Seems to be so that, nowadays, spells theoretically unlockable with enhancements count as "class" spells even if you're never qualifying for that enhancement; Spellsinger capstone in the case of Heal as a level 6 spell -> scrolls at level 16 when bards first get to cast a level 6 spell.)


    BTW, it seems that bards can also compensate for lack of gear fairly well if built for that?
    Last edited by mna; 10-14-2013 at 03:57 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).
    Away from the game most of 2015.

  17. #37
    Community Member Furbitor's Avatar
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    Default Paladins for the worst!

    Ugh. Paladins.

    Goody-two shoes who think of nothing but themselves and how other characters behave. "OH, That monk is out dps-ing me.......waaaaahhh!" "DDO must Take away his awesomenesss!!!

    there you are, wrapped in a tin can of armour, and here comes your enemy.... Push push push push push push all the little clickies for +1 to attack, +1 to damage..+1 to hit pts, +1 to blah blah blah. then you swing... with a push, and miss. swing and miss... you start cursing as you wish you took some ftr levels to have some hope of doing more than dancing with the uglies.

    .....UGH!! you got hit! LOH!! Yeah!! I got da super healzzz!!! Ugh... Again? Why isn't my AC, ooops PRR not high enough to spot getting hit? Ohhhh i needed moar dex!!! Drat!!!
    Mebbe if I Sword and Board..... D"OH!!! I just lost Hit Points due to bug of my stance, the Brave Chicken-Wing SlowStep!! I will runaway with glorious slowness!!!

    I am Pally!! (push) DING!!! I'll diplo you, you mean critter!! Opps, I just had the boss kill our cleric.. oh well. He should have healed me better.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furbitor View Post
    I am Pally!! (push) DING!!! I'll diplo you, you mean critter!! Opps, I just had the boss kill our cleric.. oh well. He should have healed me better.
    Oh well, as long as you're above level 8 and brought scrolls, you can raise the cleric.

    (AFAICT Paladin 8 should nowadays get no-fail to Raise Dead scrolls, no UMD required. Right?)
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).
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  19. #39
    Community Member Furbitor's Avatar
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    your making a huge assumption. that your pally isnt roleplaying his class, that he will spend plat on another player, that it even notices... and or just leave the poor cleric to recall and skip endloot.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    I'm not especially hung up on zerging all the time, but playing a bard last life one thing I noticed was that they zerg just fine. At least solo. Invis and run while playing fascinate/enthrall. Groups seem to have a hard time with this concept.

    And for the end bosses or mobs that can't be bypassed, divine might from 1 lvl of cleric and cleavage takes care of them
    m. At level 22 when I tr'ed, I had a 44 cha and a buffed strength in the mid 60s.

    Add 2 levels of rogue and you've got pretty much the ideal solo toon. Self buffing, self healing, potent cc, respectable dps, trapping, evasion... what else do you need?

    It's not that bad, it just takes a little different approach than a 4 button wf sorc. Certainly a heck of a lot easier than barb where you have very few choices other than just facerolling everything with a nanny duct taped to your back.




    .
    Mind sending me a quick glance at your bard build last life in a private message? I need a build that can zerg all the way to 20 and tank the bosses in a two man team. The other guy will most likely be a Pure Ranger he might mix it up a little with rogue. It's whatever we both conclude need in the group.

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